[shotgunshane]

Yeah, instrument separation is great with the W4 amped or not. In fact it excels at it IMO. I don't equate transparency/clarity with instrument separation.

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

Yeah, instrument separation is great with the W4 amped or not. In fact it excels at it IMO. I don't equate transparency/clarity with instrument separation.

I agree with Anax and shotgunshane about instrument separation. Actually that is one of the marvels of the W4. I decided not to use the Zo today and listen to the W4 plugged straight up into a 160gb iPod Classic. I was listening to some Herbie Hancock Blue Note recordings and the instrument separation was just astounding!! Lots of separation between the piano, drums, bass, but especially the trumpet and tenor saxophone - even while playing in unison. Yes, the W4 excels in instrument separation.

 

[ericp10]

I am kind of settling back into Westone's large oval single-flange silicon tips. Less bass but it gives me the best instrument separation and transparency. The W4 is an interesting beast because it presenting to me a sound signature that I would generally not like with any other IEM I have heard - less transparency. Yet, there is something about its sound signature I am drawn too (which includes details and instrument separation). I have found that I will do with the W4 something I haven't done since owning the Shure SE530 and SE535>> use the eq on it in the iPod. I set it to R&B mode to get the most satisfaction, but I also like it on flat (but I have to play it louder). Of course, it's wonder on flat with the Zo. So it's not perfect, but it's an engaging sound. Details are wonderful and I'm just amazed you can get those details without the transparency. I thought the two had to go hand-in-hand before. Still, I think the W4 would be a bargain at $300, but worth $350. I think the EX1000 would be a bargain and worth it at $300 to $350 too (not considering isolation issues). Unless I can find a really super deal on the EX1000, I am really hoping and predicting that the W4 will be the last universal IEM I ever buy. Let me be more specific: the last universal IEM I ever buy that's over $200. If I find something at the $150 to $200 range that blows the W4, EX1000, EX600, FX700 and GR07 out of the water (these five I consider at the top of the chain of top tier universals now in sound quality), well I will purchase it. But now, I'm searching for Nirvana in a couple more customs, then hopefully I can call it quits (yeaaah, I know, right!)....LOL. I can dream, can't I?

 

[rawrster]

Eric, you now know the reason why I almost kept the W4. If I can find that signature in custom form then it would take some real restraint to not purchase it.
 
 

 

[shotgunshane]

@Eric, "this is my last..."
Famous last words!

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

@Eric, "this is my last..."
Famous last words!

 

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

Eric, you now know the reason why I almost kept the W4. If I can find that signature in custom form then it would take some real restraint to not purchase it.
 
 

Yeah, I see what you mean rawrster, but did you find that the W4 sounded better to your ears than the 1964-T? I know you told me but I forget what your impressions were. As good as I think the W4 is, it doesn't beat the 1964-Q to my ears, especially when considering the transparency issue. It's close when we talk about instrument separation though and details.

 

[rawrster]

After adjusting to the signature and all that stuff the W4 wasn't quite as good as the 1964-T but it came close imo and much closer than any other universal I have heard.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Hmm.  My thoughts exactly.  "Transparency", "clarity", "instrument separation", however you want to describe it.  I just don't think it's a strength of the Westone house sound.  I've heard the W4, W3, UM3x, UM2, UM1.  The UM2 and UM1 seem to fair a little better, but the higher end earphones just don't have the same "transparency".  I agree that the details are certainly not lacking.  In fact, the higher-end Westones are incredibly revealing, yet the way the details are presented aren't the most "transparent" at all.  The SE535, ER4P/S, Triple.fi10Pro, Monster Copper/Gold/MDT, etc IMHO aren't quite as resolving as say the W4 or UM3x, but because of their less congested sound I find them all more enjoyable to listen to.  
 
Note to self: the UM3x is probably the most "transparent" of the Westone line-up.

I agree.  The Westone sound is generally a very smooth buttery laid back sound which may still provide great detail but not necessarily great transparency. 

 
 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I tend to think of transparency as uncolored with the ability to disappear and not make you hear the music coming from little speakers in your ears.  I don't think of it as micro-detail and clarity.  So, I've always felt the W4 were transparent.  
 
I can see how their smooth sound signature and laid back highs can mask some of the detail you guys are talking about, but with a good source and amp I don't find them lacking for a universal IEM.  My ES3X and ES5 do have more clarity and micro-detail, but I don't think any universal IEM matches my customs yet.

 

[milkpowder]

Well naughty me decided to go against my own ears and get a pair of W4s.  They'll arrive on Monday.  I hope I'll be able to see past the "flaws".  Nothing beats a nice long audition.  I'm already curious about them UM56 mods, they'll make a fine specimen for reshelling too

 

[ubercaffeinated]

just ordered my pair today too. coming up from the er-4s. hope i find what i'm "missing" with these additional drivers

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

just ordered my pair today too. coming up from the er-4s. hope i find what i'm "missing" with these additional drivers

Oh goody.  I'm a long time Etymotic fan too (way back to the multicolored flat cabled ER4S, ER4P, ER6i).  I think we'll have to carry different expectations when trying the W4.  Would be interested in your impressions.

 

[milkpowder]

Well.  Mighty impressive in many ways, but not without its flaws.  Ah... where should I start?  The overall sound reminds me of the UM3x + W3.  The sound is not so in-your-face.  There's a certain distance between you and the sound.  I guess I would call the presentation 'laid-back', but not quite HD555-esque (ie horrible LOL).  The bass is deep and textured.  Midrange isn't as mellow or forward as some of the mid-centric IEMs out there, and the same goes for the highs.  The upper midrange is reigned back so as to not sound overly bright.  Room/ambient cues are reproduced convincingly, which says a lot about the W4's ability to retrieve fine details.
 
 
I can totally empathise with those who say it sounds better turned up.  Perhaps the laid-back character is a little too much.  It's not as 'bad' as say the UM3x, but still, I would've loved the more prominent, mellow mids say on the SE535.  Listening to well-produced/recorded music, the W4 makes you feel like you're right there in the performance - great room cue retrieval, instruments/voices are meticulously detailed, laid-back presentation allows for a pretty expansive soundstage.  All in all, it's a great experience, but I do have my complaints.  Firstly, the timbre is off.  It's a real shame.  Violins sound a little too warm/muted, especially the upper mids.  The rosin-on-string grittiness is faithfully reproduced, though.  Secondly, the treble/upper midrange lacks energy.  This is the laid-back sound signature I guess.  For example, high hats don't sound quite as shimmering as in real life.  Thirdly, the mid-bass/lower-midrange smears just a tad.  The attack and decay in that range is just a little bit too loose.  There aren't really issues with clarity though, despite what I found in my previous auditions.  The sound is neither congested nor mushed up.  I know, I'm having to eat my own words with dignity
 
 
I'm really nitpicking, but I believe what I don't like about this IEM is down to Westone's in-house design philosophy.  They went with a highly (and I do mean highly) detailed sound, great soundstage for an IEM, great live feel, a detailed bass, reigned-back midrange and non-sibilant highs.  It's a balanced sound, maybe too balanced?  I really wish the upper midrange was more prominent.  At the moment, vocals feel like they're drowning (maybe too strong a word...) amidst everything else that is going on, especially when there many different instruments/lines playing at the same time.  I also hoped for a crisper treble, and more treble extension.  It's far from sibilant at the moment.  The shimmering clash of high hats are slightly muted, and the high notes on the violins sound like they're missing a few overtones.  Then again, these aren't issues unique to the Westone 4.
 
 
My conclusion?  The Westone 4 is a highly competent IEM. It's technically superior to many of its contemporaries and certainly one of the very best earphones that I've listened to/own.  As one reviewer wrote, it's really difficult not to like it, and if one has anything against it, it would be because of the sound signature.  I'll experiment with tips to see if some of my complaints can be remedied.  There's a lot to like about the Westone 4.  I wonder what it'll sound like dual-bored

 
 
 
 
EDIT: I forgot to comment on its comfort and aesthetics, two things which the Westone 4 is brilliant at.  The cable is superb - flexible, doesn't tangle, non-microphonic, and doesn't irritate the back of my ears even after a few hours of use.  The right angle 3.5mm jack is perfectly sized, that is, sleek, low-profile and unobtrusive.  Comfort is also great.  A true-fit no less.

 

[music_4321]

^ Of course it's not nice to start thinking about another (very) expensive IEM after just getting the W4s, but even though I also liked the W4 - my favourite universal IEM only 3 months ago -, I find the Sony EX1000 to be a step up. I think you would not find the same sonic flaws on the EX1000s. On good recordings and/or masterings I've not heard a phone that matches the EX1000's SQ, not even my $850 customs (Westone ES3X). However, if isolation is key, then the EX1000s may not be for you.