[kookoo]

What about the issue that people often delude themselves in order to justify spending that kind of money on cables?
People get very defensive when their core beliefs are being put into question which is why I am all for objective testing.
I own some custom cables, but I buy them purely for the aesthetics and not because I believe that they change the sound in any meaningful way.
 
Tyll measured the onkyo cables to be 0.2 Ohm, let's assume it's the same for the Westone that means the resistance in the drivers is (31/0.2) 155 times that of the cable. Anybody who took first year uni physics would say 31>>0.2 therefore irrelevant.
 
People are entitled to be subjective all they want but it fails to convince many of those who prefer an objective point of view

 

[balor1eye]

Anyone know where to buy Phonak tips?  The web store linked earlier in this thread appears to be sold out of everything and I can't find them for sale anywhere else in the U.S.

 

[BRCMRGN]

  Anyone know where to buy Phonak tips?  The web store linked earlier in this thread appears to be sold out of everything and I can't find them for sale anywhere else in the U.S.

 
http://www.earphonesolutions.com/audeo-silicone-tips.html

 

[pacman46]

I think this is good advice. I presently own the UM3X and I just received my W4R and had a few hours of listen. I found the star tips were the best for my UM3X(the largest you can tolerate) . I began to listen, same star tips, and was kinda disappointed then I started noticing nuances and broader sound. I reminded myself my brain needs time with these so I am looking forward to the upcoming listening days. I at first thought there wasn't much difference between the two...but after a couple of hours things were changing. I do understand why others say these shine with amplification, I do not presently have an amp but my S3 as well as my Sansa zip were maxed and these things weren't struggling in the least. The treble is clear the bass is controlled and not boomy with silicon tips, yes I tried shure olives, comply and all of the included but went back to star tips. Different strokes for different folks.  I have also found to continue switching between your old iem's and the new ones you are trying is counter productive. You need to pretend as if the new ones are the only ones for awhile, give yourself a chance to adjust.

I find the same thing.. If I keep switching between a few different ones through the day I find they all don't sound that good.. But once I listen to one pair and let my brain adjust they will sound good like they are supposed to.. Hope this makes sense lol

 

[Mooses9]

I find the same thing.. If I keep switching between a few different ones through the day I find they all don't sound that good.. But once I listen to one pair and let my brain adjust they will sound good like they are supposed to.. Hope this makes sense lol

You are very right. If you dont stick with one iem your brain isnt going to have time to adjust. You are just going to really be hearing noise coming from the iems and not fully hearing the tonal balance of any iem you are going to hear.

You might also be more biased to a iem you have more experience with and know the tonal balance of that iem so you know more of what to expect. Giving you the perceived notion one is better than another.

I say of you really want to hear what a iem has to offer stick with one for a while then come to a conclusion.

 

[JohnSantana]

I agree with virtually everything you said above and do value subjective impressions. I share my own with some frequency. That's much of what this site is all about.

Absolute statements of cause and effect that do not square with what is actually measurable are highly problematic though - that's what I was attempting to address in the post I originally quoted. New users come here looking for information and assurances, and I believe headfi veterans have an obligation to be careful not to conflate personal impressions with scientific truth. I think the heart of the problem is that the copper vs silver cable discussion has been grossly oversimplified. I'll leave it at that.

yeah a pure silver cable say from headphonelounge is going to run around 220.00, the whiplash v2/v3 can run from 285-475.00

Pure Silver Cables i have used:

Toxic Silver poison 7n up-occ
Whiplash Twag v2 Eclipse Pure silver
Whiplash  SCSCag 7n-UPOCC Hook Pure Silver
Tralucent 6N pure silver
Neotech 5n pure silver
''dream'' 5n pure silver


But thats the thing, it is Subjective matter, sound itsself is subjective, what one person hears might not be what another hears. for instance, the fact that there are a ton of post about people giving their subjective opinions on how other iem's sound. i dont know why people put cables into the matter then throw them out becuase its ''subjective reasoning''....someone giving a impression of how a particular iem sound is just subjective impressions... for instance one person might be like OMG best iem even, then someone uses that basis that ''subjective impression'' and goes out and buys the iem then hates it. its ALL subjective.

even if you have data on a iem, showing it has excellent frequency curves what does that mean, that data isnt applied inside your head to buffer your subjective impression of a iem, take for instance the almost perfect square wave frequency curve of the se535, yet people can still find fault with it, just becuase the square wave is excellent. most people cant even read data sheets, and its not what people go by, they go by other peoples subjective reasoning, subjective impressions.

cables are no different, even if you had data that showed differences in frequencies per material of cable, people would still use subjective reasoning and subjective impressions of other peoples expierences to base weather or not to buy the cable....even though data is important and it would be cool to see a frequency spike is certain ranges of the frequency spectrum based on a cable material, in the end, data isnt what is going to be used to be a driving force for the puchases of a certain cable.

someone like me is going to be that driving force, someone who has had expierences with alot of different cables, and interconnects, alot of different dacs amps and daps, dont get me wrong, im not a professional, i just have expierence with cables and maybe not even as much as the next guy. but my subjective reasoning and subjective impressions can and have been a driving force for some people to purchase cables im not with any particular MFG as you can see i buy from alot of the boutique cable makers, im not paid or endorsed by anyone. but just giving my opinion.

im not right or wrong. im entitled to my own impressions of audio equipment i currently use, have used.

Cool, thanks guys for your sharing here, it is truly enlightening to know that when one buys IEM or Headphone, the only thing that should be enjoyed is the sound quality signature itself.

Comparing it with scientific FR graph or any other people comments will actually skew our preference to the IEM/Head phone that we just bought thus impairing our judgment.

 

[hkppl]

Cool, thanks guys for your sharing here, it is truly enlightening to know that when one buys IEM or Headphone, the only thing that should be enjoyed is the sound quality signature itself.

Comparing it with scientific FR graph or any other people comments will actually skew our preference to the IEM/Head phone that we just bought thus impairing our judgment.

Actually I feel quite lucky that I never know how to read those FR graphs and so they could never affect my judgement on buying IEM/headphones

 

[spook76]

how do u compare the sound of shure 846 to W4r's? I mean I always wanted that comparison :/

I must preface my comparison with the fact I sold my Westone 4r about 4 months ago so my comparison is based upon my memory. First I think the comparison on Earphone Solutions is fairly accurate http://www.earphonesolutions.com/w4r-vs-se846.html.

What I would add is that first it is hard to overstate incredible bass of the SE846. It is very difficult to describe the bass because I never knew what I was missing from either the SE535 or the 4r until I heard the 846. It is not about the quantity of low end but the incredible depth. The 846s have created a new set of frequency ranges namely sub bass, bass, midrange and treble.

Where I agree with Earphone Solutions is that the SE846 is not a reference IEM and I do not believe Shure set out to make it one. The Westone 4 has a far more neutral signature from top to bottom whereas the 846 has the incredible bass coupled with the lush and slightly forward midrange and a polite treble (some may say it rolls off but of course you can change the filters and boost the treble). Another reviewer commented that the sins if any of the 846 are of omission not commission which I would agree. Are the 846s perfect for everyone no but if you are looking for an incredibly musical UIEM I do not believe there is a better one. As for price performance between the 846 vs the 4r I do not believe the current $299 4r can be touched and even at the old MSRP of $500 the 4r is the best reference UIEM available.

Westone 4r set out to create the best reference UIEM and I think they succeeded. The SE846 attempts to tackle the problem of a strong realistic bass and subwoofer in a BA set up without clouding the midrange and to make it the most musical UIEM and to me they succeeded. Hybrids like the AKG 3003 or the 1plus2 attempt to do it by mixing dynamic with BA , JH Audio attempts with freq phase or the tunable bass of the new Roxanne and of course Sennheiser went with a single dynamic in the ie800. Whether they succeeded I leave to other reviewers who are more familiar with them. Simply put comparing the Wesrone 4r to the Shure SE846 is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison as it depends what sonic signature you are seeking.

 

[Mooses9]

Spooks76......that is very acccurate perception of the w4r and the 846 while I have yet to hear the 846 just read reviews ect much like everyone else what you are saying is very much on point.

I think another thing that was on point is that the w4r is a reference in ear monitor, reference people say it doesnt sound like this or doesnt sound like that. and I think again reference in ear monitor. They dont get that. Drives me crazy.

 

[javahut]

I would agree with spook76's assessment of the Westone 4 vs. SE846. However, I have an additional reference between them that really makes the differences between them not as drastic as some perceive, although still with a noticeable difference in sound signature. That is... I think the SE846 is made to sound as great as possible with average gear & normal, everyday ear tips. I also think the 846 sound signature was intentionally made to work really well in "stand-alone" rigs. That is... the 846 will probably sound better than almost any other universal without having any peripheral equipment but the source player. The 846 sounds... close to awesome... in almost every set up... straight outta your phone, or through your high end headphone gear.
 
It's fairly amazing how Shure has managed to get such a musical, slightly hyped sound, but at the same time... not overbearing or fatiguing in any range (dependent upon the ear tip used). Like spook said, it's a very musical IEM that makes listening to music and sound fun. It keeps you attentive to all that's happening in the music.. It has great sub lows, great low end, clear, slightly forward mid that isn't fatiguing, and the high end is just sparkling and airy enough so that it sounds high end, but not fatiguing, grating or shrill. It really is the best sounding, most fun to listen to IEM I've had the pleasure of hearing.
 
However, for everyone who finds the W4 'flat' sounding... as great as the 846 is, it cannot deliver the beautiful warm, fat lows and buttery low mid, and silky highs the W4 delivers with the right set up. And the right set up pretty much excludes not having a good headphone amp, and not using EarPortz for ear tips. My personal use of the W4s was the digital USB out from Power Amp on a Note 2, into the Ray Samuels Predator DAC/amp... to the W4s... and without a doubt, coming through the EarPortz tips nestled comfortably in my ear canals. As great, and as much fun to listen to as the 846 is... it can't do that beautiful warm, fat, silky sound the W4 does within the set up I've just described. It's a totally different experience, but just as much fun to experience as the SE846 is... just different. That set up, with the W4, has plenty of low end for even bass heads like myself. Sounds extremely natural, but on the warm side, with plenty of oomph on the low end for electronic music. It also helps smooth out any harshness a recording might have in a very pleasant way.
 
So to me... the W4 is very much on an equal footing, sound-wise, as the 846. It's just different. And then the biggest difference is... you have to know how to get that sound out of the W4. With the Shure 846... it's much easier to get a great, quality sound with the 'normal' every day ear tips and average headphone outputs. But it can also sound stunning with high file resolutions, and great DACs and amps. The W4, to me, needs great files, a great player, great DAC/amp, and most importantly, EarPortz ear tips... or if not, then the double flange Sensorcom tips as a runner up... to get the same quality (albeit a very different quality) than the 846 seems to more easily deliver (and BTW, the EarPortz do not work at all for the SE846 for me... at least so far... I'll say it as the EarPortz deliver too much of a good thing to work well with the SE846... but they're a necessity for me with the W4).
 
My two cents... I still love listening to the W4s... just because as much as I love the excitement the 846 brings, it just can't do that warm, pumping, luscious, silky sound the W4 can... under the right conditions. They're both great IEMs... but in very different ways.

 

[spook76]

I will add I also think the 846 scales up as well as the W4r. I agree with Java that the 846 sounds great straight out of my iPhone but when I run it through an RSA Protector balanced amp with balanced OCC silver cables it is truly magical. I have always felt both Shure and Westone build their IEMs to scale up beautifully with the right equipment.

 

[Poimandres]

I sent out my new 4r's today to be remolded by inearz. Looking forward to getting them back.

 

[matthewh133]

Just purchased myself a pair of 4Rs.. I'll be running it from an iPod Classic. What do you guys recommend in terms of a portable DAC/Amp that compliments these IEMs sound signature perfectly? I don't really know a huge amount about the portable world. Preferably nothing over $350 or so.

 

[M-13]

  Just purchased myself a pair of 4Rs.. I'll be running it from an iPod Classic. What do you guys recommend in terms of a portable DAC/Amp that compliments these IEMs sound signature perfectly? I don't really know a huge amount about the portable world. Preferably nothing over $350 or so.

I recommend the Fiio X3. Seems to have great synergy for me.

 

[TokenGesture]

  I recommend the Fiio X3. Seems to have great synergy for me.

+1 Good combo