[DemonFox]

Quote:

So I got a set of headphones for a wedding present as everyone knows I love audio. I decided I don't want full sized cans so I put them up for sale here and on ebay. Beyerdynamics contacted me demanding I raise my price to their map. I refused politely and explained as I am an individual, this is personal property, and I have no agreement with them,  I am not subject to MAP. Next thing I know they ended the auction by BIN because they don't have a leg to stand on. I have filed a complaint with ebay and have been conversing with them vie email about the gestapo tactics. Here is the email.
 
them
This is Pete Carini with beyerdynamic.
You have violated our map price on the T5p!
Please adjus to our map price of $1,295 immediatly. Your full cooperation is appriciated with this matter

Please feel free to contact me if you wish to discuss this matter.

Best Regards,

Peter Carini
Sales Manager
Consumer and Aviation

beyerdynamic Inc. USA
56 Central Ave Farmingdale, NY 11735
Office 631.293.3200 ext.17
Fax 631.293.3288
Mobile 516.848-3902
peter@beyerdynamic-usa.com
www.beyerdynamic-usa.com
 
then they bought the item when I refused and explained. and here is what follows.
 
me
You contacted me telling me you work for beyerdynamics and i better raise my price and i tell you I am not obligated to do so as i am not subject to your map then you go and buy the product. How can I trust the sale?
 
them
 
We are just trying to get this product from being listed under map.
We have many of our dealers complaing about this listing and need to make this right
so we are choosing to purchase it from you.

How can we make you feel comfortable about this sale. We are a very legit and reputable 
company.
We will pay by Amex or paypal.
 
me
 
I don't agree with these practices. I am an individual not a business. I have the right to sell my property for what i want without interference from a large company. I loved my t1 I had but decided I did not want a full sized headphones. My mother bought these as a wedding gift and since I don't  want a full sized headphones I was trying to pass on these to someone who might not have the 1300 to spend on them.
  I have never had a company try to interfere they way bayerdynamics has done in this occasion no matter what i was selling it for, even if under the map. If you still want the item you can Paypal me 1,000 to ********* which is my paypal and i will send them to you. However I will never recommend your company to anyone and will post this experience on the major headfi and other audiophile forums.

So check this out, I just sold a new pair of my personally owned DT990/32's and received the exact same message!!
 
You are violating our map price on the DT 990 Premium 32 ohm headphone!
 Please adjust your advertised price according to our map price of $379 immediately!

 Please contact me if you wish to discuss!

 Best Regards,

Peter Carini
Sales Manager
Consumer and Aviation

beyerdynamic Inc. USA
56 Central Ave Farmingdale, NY 11735
Office  631.293.3200 ext.17
Fax  631.293.3288
Mobile  516.848-3902
[e-mail address removed]
www.beyerdynamic-usa.com
 
 
What the heck is that about?? These are my own pair that I decided to sell because I didn't have a need for them so how can they tell me what to sell them for?? I'm just a random dude selling his stuff online for some extra cash, who the hell is this guy to tell me how much I can sell my own personal items for??

 

[Radio_head]

They must have a serious problem with dealers selling too low on their hands.  The solution is to make better products everyone wants (ie drive up demand and price will follow), not to menace every shadow that might be an offending dealer selling your product too low.  
 
Now there is a new con to T1/HD800 arguments - when buying Beyerdynamic, they may threaten you when you try to sell it.  
 
Also, this guy must seriously not know how to use a computer - you can tell by "other listings" and sales history if you're dealing with a dealer on the edge or just some guy selling his headphones.  Apparently this guy can't tell eBay apart from the Pirate Bay.  
 
On a random note, I'd love to sell premium maps to amateur cartographers and give them a hard time about it.  "You're selling the map below map.  Bring your map up to map or I'll... nevermind."   In conclusion Beyer sucks.

 

[DemonFox]

Quote:

They must have a serious problem with dealers selling too low on their hands.  The solution is to make better products everyone wants (ie drive up demand and price will follow), not to menace every shadow that might be an offending dealer selling your product too low.  
 
Now there is a new con to T1/HD800 arguments - when buying Beyerdynamic, they may threaten you when you try to sell it.  
 
Also, this guy must seriously not know how to use a computer - you can tell by "other listings" and sales history if you're dealing with a dealer on the edge or just some guy selling his headphones.  Apparently this guy can't tell eBay apart from the Pirate Bay.  
 
On a random note, I'd love to sell premium maps to amateur cartographers and give them a hard time about it.  "You're selling the map below map.  Bring your map up to map or I'll... nevermind."   In conclusion Beyer sucks.

 
I'll second that!! I sent him a response asking him why he's messaging me so lets see what he says but if he answers wrong he may lose a loyal customer. DT990/32 Premium DT990/250 Pro's DT770/80 COP's MMX 300 and I may be leaving something out! My Fan status maybe changing really quick if this dude tries pushing me

 

[pp312]

Quote:

My Fan status maybe changing really quick if this dude tries pushing me

 

 

[parasitius]

So I grabbed 2 pairs of T70s on a "steal" deal at $300/ea thinking I can profit enough from selling 1 to pay the other (late 2012). Had them MONTHS and could not sell. Finally Peter bought them off me like $390 or $400 or something? I was super happy because otherwise I'd have been up **** creek with the credit card interest piling up etc. 
 
Unfortunately I STILL have brand new DT1350 I can't sell. (Sold one to my dad, and they are FANTASTIC, just have TOO MANY phones to listen to and too much credit card debt.) 
 
Arbitrage with headphones = DAMN, DAMN risky business! Do not do it. Much easier money to be had buying stuff like iPod dock speakers on BestBuy clearance $50 and resell $150 on Amazon IN UNDER 24 HOURS! 
 
Honestly, considering how good BD are, and the months I had those T70s listed, I am scared they will go out of business. How could they be selling so poorly that the heaviest traffic site out there (Amazon) - they would not sell even my 1 dinky pair? 
 
Also, before anyone scolds me because they have an issue with arbitrage -- look, I made the mistake of majoring in CS. This is the kind of hustling I have to do to survive, living in Ohio it is about the worst field. Pretty much all my friends who dropped out of high school are making much better money. 

 

[Radio_head]

What you are describing is flipping.  It is totally not cool.  We're enthusiasts, not parasites out for a quick buck.

 

[parasitius]

Quote:

What you are describing is flipping.  It is totally not cool.  We're enthusiasts, not parasites out for a quick buck.

 
I know but I'm not Christian, so you guys' moral system is beyond anything I can comprehend no matter how hard I try. Basically, the system is full of contradictions. It is "ok" for a company to do X Y Z, but because I don't have the "legitimacy" of a company, magically, I don' t have the same right, etc. etc. ad infinitum. It is an inconsistent philosophy which no one could articulate in a way that would stand up to logical scrutiny. 
 
Anyway I'm done with it. Flipping was a nightmare experiment that failed massively. 

 

[aak57]

Flipping is different than retail because you're directly taking a product from someone who actually wants it.  Manufacturers do not sell to individuals because it's a pain in the ass, so they sell in bulk to companies.  That's why it's OK for companies to sell things, because otherwise we wouldn't get anything other than stuff made by small businesses with small client bases.
 
also, lolwhat at CS being a dead-end major.  Are you saying that Ohio is some third-world state?

 

[Radio_head]

Quote:

 
I know but I'm not Christian, so you guys' moral system is beyond anything I can comprehend no matter how hard I try. Basically, the system is full of contradictions. It is "ok" for a company to do X Y Z, but because I don't have the "legitimacy" of a company, magically, I don' t have the same right, etc. etc. ad infinitum. It is an inconsistent philosophy which no one could articulate in a way that would stand up to logical scrutiny. 
 
Anyway I'm done with it. Flipping was a nightmare experiment that failed massively. 

Not being christian does not excuse not following a websites terms of service/code of conduct just because you don't understand or agree with it.  That is, of course, if you're selling on forums like HF.  If you're buying from HF ads and then selling for more elsewhere you're violating an implicit understanding on HF - most sellers have the understanding that they're selling to fellow hobbyists, which is why they will sell so cheaply.  If you are buying and selling away from forums, waiting for deals, buying and reselling on ebay or wherever - there's nothing against the rules but it definitely calls into question your altruism in being part of the hobby if that matters to you.  Its not that hard for individuals to start online companies these days, so I suppose the difference is a matter of classification.  Individuals and businesses are never seen as the same thing - not by the IRS, not by the government, not by insurance companies from a liability standpoint, not from a host of regulatory bodies public and private and not for the consumer.  There are a lot of good reasons why this is so, and other reasons that just involve greed.  Either way, its frowned upon here, so if you could at least pretend you're not a flipper that would be great.

 

[lostinthesauce]

Quote:

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
Flipping is different than retail because you're directly taking a product from someone who actually wants it.  Manufacturers do not sell to individuals because it's a pain in the ass, so they sell in bulk to companies.  That's why it's OK for companies to sell things, because otherwise we wouldn't get anything other than stuff made by small businesses with small client bases.
 
also, lolwhat at CS being a dead-end major. 
 

 
Are you saying that Ohio is some third-world state?

Asked by someone who has obviously never lived in Ohio.

 

[jmwoliver]

Besides from parasitius being weird and bringing up random topics of flipping, this Beyerdynamic situation really annoys me. To think that a company would be hurting so bad that they intimidate private sellers to raise prices a couple hundred dollars seems absurd. I have a pair of Beyerdynamics and they make a quality headphone, but this isn't right. Businesses should not be meddling with individuals. My respect for Beyerdynamic has gone down immensely.

 

[parasitius]

Quote:

also, lolwhat at CS being a dead-end major.  Are you saying that Ohio is some third-world state?

 
If you've ever looked up Youngstown in Robert Half Technology survey -- .76 multiplier, yes. Go to state college $10,000/year tuition with the promise you'll make so much paying the loans back will be nothing. Graduate. Work for company that pays programmers in the $30k's. Send $400/mo to make minimum college loan payments. One loan is a 30-year loan. Yay!
 
Quote:

Not being christian does not excuse not following a websites terms of service/code of conduct just because you don't understand or agree with it.  That is, of course, if you're selling on forums like HF.  If you're buying from HF ads and then selling for more elsewhere you're violating an implicit understanding on HF - most sellers have the understanding that they're selling to fellow hobbyists, which is why they will sell so cheaply.  If you are buying and selling away from forums, waiting for deals, buying and reselling on ebay or wherever - there's nothing against the rules but it definitely calls into question your altruism in being part of the hobby if that matters to you.  Its not that hard for individuals to start online companies these days, so I suppose the difference is a matter of classification.  Individuals and businesses are never seen as the same thing - not by the IRS, not by the government, not by insurance companies from a liability standpoint, not from a host of regulatory bodies public and private and not for the consumer.  There are a lot of good reasons why this is so, and other reasons that just involve greed.  Either way, its frowned upon here, so if you could at least pretend you're not a flipper that would be great.

 
Yeah I'm not violating any terms. I'll only sell my used stuff here, and at that I've lost massive $ on the 1 mint used pair I sold so far.
 
Individuals and businesses thing... I don't see your point exactly! Actually, as soon as I do sell something, even just 1 item in 1 year the IRS instantly sees me as a business. If they found out I sold used headphones, the legal onus is still on *me* to prove that I lost money and therefore don't owe taxes on the sale price ("profit"). If I can't prove it, they would want me to pay taxes on the full sales price (even though the money I got was already taxed when I initially earned it to buy the headphones in the first place). ... Also not sure if you are aware, some people consider greed a moral ideal. Read "The Virtue of Selfishness"  
 
Quote:

Asked by someone who has obviously never lived in Ohio.

 
LOL!!! 

 

[parasitius]

Quote:

Besides from parasitius being weird and bringing up random topics of flipping, this Beyerdynamic situation really annoys me. To think that a company would be hurting so bad that they intimidate private sellers to raise prices a couple hundred dollars seems absurd. I have a pair of Beyerdynamics and they make a quality headphone, but this isn't right. Businesses should not be meddling with individuals. My respect for Beyerdynamic has gone down immensely.

 
I think the problem lies in the fact that you don't have thick enough skin to ignore a random email from a random dude over Amazon. Like seriously, just because he politely threatens you doesn't mean he has any power whatsoever. OTOH when I tried to sell a 100% legitimate used old copy of Windows 95 in the original box on eBay and Microsoft their iron fist to COERCIVELY close and cancel the auction and get eBay to threaten to ban me forever??? THAT was seriously offensive, they were actually wielding coercive force.
 
If Peter-baby had the power, ... he could just negotiate with Amazon to prevent listings below a certain price. Look at Amazon themselves usually selling BD below MAP. He didn't even answer me on how I'm supposed to sell a pair if I can't beat Amazon's price. (And there are other headphone companies where you CANNOT list without special permission, so I think BD just lacks this power, so we should be glad we can list at all.. ) 

 

[jmwoliver]

Quote:

 
I think the problem lies in the fact that you don't have thick enough skin to ignore a random email from a random dude over Amazon.

I didn't even get an email from Beyerdynamic. It is not that fact that I don't have thick enough skin, it is the idea that companies think they wield the power to shove sellers into submission. Especially in a hobby as niche as being an audiophile, it is in Beyerdynamics best interest to work with the consumer, not against them.

 

[DemonFox]

Besides from parasitius being weird and bringing up random topics of flipping, this Beyerdynamic situation really annoys me. To think that a company would be hurting so bad that they intimidate private sellers to raise prices a couple hundred dollars seems absurd. I have a pair of Beyerdynamics and they make a quality headphone, but this isn't right. Businesses should not be meddling with individuals. My respect for Beyerdynamic has gone down immensely.

Exactly!! That's the main point here. I got that stupid letter and haven't purchased a Beyer product since then and I may not ever again unless its used at a significantly lower price. Before that letter I had

DT990/250 Pro
DT990/32 Premium x2
MMX 300
DT770/80
DT70 x 2
COP

After that letter I sold them all except the MMX300. Kinda wish I still had the DT990 pro's but crap like that won't be tolerated and I refuse to support companies that are that petty.


Thanks,


D