[grokit]

Thanks but it's the bulky adapters required to use them in a "normal" SE or portable amp again that turns me off at that point. This hobby can be like a jigsaw puzzle sometimes with all of the variables.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

When I had the prototype WA22 here for two weeks as a loan for a meet in 2009, the WA22 sounded better with a balanced source than single ended source (tested with Digital Link III with XLR and RCA out, as well as Apogee mini-DAC XLR and SE).  
 
IIRC, the source being balanced or not made a bigger difference than which outputs I used, and I posted this around the time of the July 2009 Colorado meet.  However, the WA22 1/4" jack was slightly less spacious sounding than the 4-pin XLR output, and although it wasn't a huge difference it was there.  
 
I distinctly recall this being the case because in comparison my ZDT's 4-pin output sounded almost the same as it's 1/4" jack, while the differences with the WA22 outputs were bigger.  The ZDT's 1/4" and 4-pin output sounded more open and spacious than the WA22 1/4" jack, but using the WA22 4-pin XLR output brought it much closer to the level of the ZDT.  I used a 4-pin XLR APS V3 cable with my HD600, and a 4-pin XLR HD800 cable from Warren Audio, with a matching single ended adapters for each cable.
 
I later heard the final WA22 and I enjoyed it more than the prototype, but I assume the differences with balanced input vs SE input would still be there, even if the final amp ended up being much better than the prototype (6SN7 tubes seem more detailed than 12AX7 tubes to me).  Even single ended the WA22 prototype beat my WA6 which had a similar tone but much less power and a more forward and less spacious soundstage - I almost bought the WA22 prototype to replace my WA6, but instead set my sights on the WES instead.

 

[fatcat28037]

I was hoping to get an answer from SP Wild to my question in post #60 but this thread seems to have come to a screeching halt. Oh well.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

I was hoping to get an answer from SP Wild to my question in post #60 but this thread seems to have come to a screeching halt. Oh well.

My apologies, I don't realise how overwhelming this technical talk can be to some.
 
The WA22 does not output a balanced signal...period.  Whether the a headphone is connected to the 1/4 in TRS or XLR jacks...the signal is the same signal coming out of either of these jacks, 100 percent identical.
 

 

[fatcat28037]

 
Quote:

Quote:

I was hoping to get an answer from SP Wild to my question in post #60 but this thread seems to have come to a screeching halt. Oh well.

My apologies, I don't realise how overwhelming this technical talk can be to some.
 
The WA22 does not output a balanced signal...period.  Whether the a headphone is connected to the 1/4 in TRS or XLR jacks...the signal is the same signal coming out of either of these jacks, 100 percent identical.
 

Zing!........Side-stepping the personal shot in your first sentence I have to say I must disagree. On the balanced side there is a positive and negative for both the left and right while the TRS side has a left and right positive and a single negative making it unbalanced, something I thought you agreed with in post #53.

 

[Skylab]

Fat cat, you are right. All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks.

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

 
Quote:

Quote:

I was hoping to get an answer from SP Wild to my question in post #60 but this thread seems to have come to a screeching halt. Oh well.

My apologies, I don't realise how overwhelming this technical talk can be to some.
 
The WA22 does not output a balanced signal...period.  Whether the a headphone is connected to the 1/4 in TRS or XLR jacks...the signal is the same signal coming out of either of these jacks, 100 percent identical.
 

Zing!........Side-stepping the personal shot in your first sentence I have to say I must disagree. On the balanced side there is a positive and negative for both the left and right while the TRS side has a left and right positive and a single negative making it unbalanced, something I thought you agreed with in post #53.

 
If you took anything as a personal attack, then I say sorry.  The WA22 is an excellent sounding amp, there is nothing more to discuss.
 

 

[fatcat28037]

 
Quote:

Fat cat, you are right. All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks.

 Thanks for the validation Skylab. I'm trying to understand SP Wild's tenacious insistence that the WA22 in not balanced when it so obviously is. To state incorrect information as fact does not serve the community well, especially when its directed at the product and reputation of a sponsor.

 

[fatcat28037]

Quote:

Quote:

 
Quote:

Quote:

I was hoping to get an answer from SP Wild to my question in post #60 but this thread seems to have come to a screeching halt. Oh well.

My apologies, I don't realise how overwhelming this technical talk can be to some.
 
The WA22 does not output a balanced signal...period.  Whether the a headphone is connected to the 1/4 in TRS or XLR jacks...the signal is the same signal coming out of either of these jacks, 100 percent identical.
 

Zing!........Side-stepping the personal shot in your first sentence I have to say I must disagree. On the balanced side there is a positive and negative for both the left and right while the TRS side has a left and right positive and a single negative making it unbalanced, something I thought you agreed with in post #53.

 
If you took anything as a personal attack, then I say sorry.  The WA22 is an excellent sounding amp, there is nothing more to discuss.
 

 We will agree to disagree. Discussion closed.

 

[grokit]

I love Woo's offerings but if they are a sponsor they aren't listed as such in the sponsor link section on the right side of the home page.

 

[vermellfort]

Quote:

Fat cat, you are right. All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks.

 
Woo's schematics:


 
6moons' schematics:

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

In my land, a balanced signal has a "hot" and "cold" signals per chanel, the XLR connectors of this amp have the same ground wire of the jack connector, IMHO when one amplifier has the same ground wire in his output chanels, this amplifier has a SE output.

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hi Jack,
Glad too see you're here to clarify things.
No doubts whatsoever about your amp is fully balanced.
But, and according to your schematics: can one conclude that TRS and XLR receive the same signal?
Excuse my ignorance and thanks in advanced.

 
What do I miss then?
Humbly, I think there's no discussion about the amp being balanced, fully balanced or 150% balanced.
What is worth to me is to clarify if it's worth to recable some expensive headphones (or cheap ones) into XLR to get the most from WA22.

 

[SP Wild]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Fat cat, you are right. All you have to do is look at the schematic Jack posted in post 38 to very clearly see this. The amp is balanced, and provides a balanced output on the XLR jacks.

 
Woo's schematics:


 
6moons' schematics:

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

In my land, a balanced signal has a "hot" and "cold" signals per chanel, the XLR connectors of this amp have the same ground wire of the jack connector, IMHO when one amplifier has the same ground wire in his output chanels, this amplifier has a SE output.

 
Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

Hi Jack,
Glad too see you're here to clarify things.
No doubts whatsoever about your amp is fully balanced.
But, and according to your schematics: can one conclude that TRS and XLR receive the same signal?
Excuse my ignorance and thanks in advanced.

 
What do I miss then?
Humbly, I think there's no discussion about the amp being balanced, fully balanced or 150% balanced.
What is worth to me is to clarify if it's worth to recable some expensive headphones (or cheap ones) into XLR to get the most from WA22.

You have not missed anything.  See the little green sinewaves on the woo pictures...they start off with four of them (like a four channel beta22) L+, L-, R+, R-...towards the end there are only two of them left...L+ and R+.  What happened to L- and R-?
 
Woo never hides the fact that the headphone output is not differential and has never claimed otherwise.

 

[vermellfort]

Quote:

 

You have not missed anything.  See the little green sinewaves on the woo pictures...they start off with four of them (like a four channel beta22) L+, L-, R+, R-...towards the end there are only two of them left...L+ and R+.  What happened to L- and R-?
 
Woo never hides the fact that the headphone output is not differential and has never claimed otherwise.

Thanks SP Wild: I've been looking at that, time and again, and read again the posts of those who claim the opposite to try to understand.
But as far as my knowledge arrives, I see no objective reasons to say that TRS and XLR outputs are feeded in different ways. If somebody can expose them it would be glad to learn and grateful.

 

[icefsh]

According to Woo's diagram, I think WA22 amplify balanced signal by full balanced circuit, and then transfer amplificatory balanced signal to single end output to headphone. The purpose of balanced circuit is to reduce noise I think, so this design seems to take the benefit of balanced signal although output single end. If do not use it as a pre amp, it should not have any problem, and can save effort of connector modification.

 

[fatcat28037]

 
Quote:

I love Woo's offerings but if they are a sponsor they aren't listed as such in the sponsor link section on the right side of the home page.

The logos for featured sponsors roll so no sponsor is shown all the time. at the bottom of that panel is a drop-down menu labeled "sponsor showcases", Woo is listed there. However, you are right about Woo not showing in the sponsor list at the bottom of the right-hand panel, I don't know why.