[Airlight]

Nice review. So it's a single driver , which sounds like a BA, but also smooth as Dynamic driver?

You gave it a high rating, by surpassing ER4S.

 
Pretty much yeah.
 
The tips were the key, because different tips can do either subtle changes, or pretty huge ones (even if they all seal well).
 
And yes, the GR07X is now the best thing I've ever heard. Since the Frequency Response is now flatter and the treble isn't as peaky as before, it's like a warmer, more crisp, drier version of an ER4, with no deep insertion necessary, excellent fit with the over-ear (for me atleast, plus the new earhook is smaller and more stable around my ear aswell).
 
GR07 Classic was 70% dynamic driver with a sprinkling of BA speed on top, making it creamy yet the texture was crisp. GR07X sounds like 20% dynamic driver fundation with 80% BA speed and contrast on top. I'm not sure what the new driver does differently, but it's like they made the diaphragm even lighter/thinner than before (it's already described as onion-skin thin), and improved the magnet control aswell.

 

[mochill]

The diaphragm is thicker in the new one with more strand of silver cable. The thickness will make it stiffer and faster

 

[Airlight]

The diaphragm is thicker in the new one with more strand of silver cable. The thickness will make it stiffer and faster

 
That's interesting, do you know where you heard or read that? If the diaphragm itself was thicker, with the same density, that would mean it weighs more, and thus I'd assume it would be slower to move. If it was thicker and stiffer that should reduce distortion more, but speed should be worse, at least I'd assume from basic physics.

 

[mochill]

VSONIC GR07X http://penonaudio.com/VSONIC-GR07X?search=Vsonic%20gr07x (Share from Armorfly Browser)

VSONIC GR07 BASS http://penonaudio.com/VSONIC-GR07-BASS?search=Vsonic%20gr07 (Share from Armorfly Browser)

 

[Shawn71]

That's interesting, do you know where you heard or read that? If the diaphragm itself was thicker, with the same density, that would mean it weighs more, and thus I'd assume it would be slower to move. If it was thicker and stiffer that should reduce distortion more, but speed should be worse, at least I'd assume from basic physics.

+1 on that basics..... the resellers just copy paste to the product description, what mfr relay. Glad Vsonic's onion skin thickness description(may be some chinese onion has nm skin?:rolleyes: ) for GR07X diaphragm is better than ostry's for their OS series silicon tips.

Below ostry's tuning plugs description,lol.

* OS100: LF less, dental correction Medium
* OS200: low volume foot, dental correction stronger
* OS300: low-frequency volume, tone correction strong teeth

 

[Airlight]

Those are... interesting. Free dental correction though, I'm sure that prospect is a selling point. 
 
I did read before that GR07 had 100+ layers of biocell material compressed and shaped into a diaphragm shape. Though I suppose the GR07X might benefit from different manufacturing techniques where the 300+ layers of the new driver (if that is accurate) are simply compressed more to reach the same (or less) thickness and mass, while benefitting from the additional stiffness of more fiber layers in the final driver.
 
Either way... Me gusta.

 

[mochill]

More layer for more strength and speed

 

[Shawn71]

Those are... interesting. Free dental correction though, I'm sure that prospect is a selling point. 

I did read before that GR07 had 100+ layers of biocell material compressed and shaped into a diaphragm shape. Though I suppose the GR07X might benefit from different manufacturing techniques where the 300+ layers of the new driver (if that is accurate) are simply compressed more to reach the same (or less) thickness and mass, while benefitting from the additional stiffness of more fiber layers in the final driver.

Either way... Me gusta.

Well I stand by your previous post,thinner is best.....thicker may be best suited for woofers and sub-woofers not for HP drivers nor IEMs. We have lot of technology innovations now for the same subject if Im not wrong.

 

[Shawn71]

More layer for more strength and speed

more layer is to re-produce sound faithfully not for strength,imho.......

 

[mochill]

That's what it means

 

[Shawn71]

Well I meant More layer from the base stand point, not for strength nor it achieves speed......

 

[ghostie72]

That's interesting, do you know where you heard or read that? If the diaphragm itself was thicker, with the same density, that would mean it weighs more, and thus I'd assume it would be slower to move. If it was thicker and stiffer that should reduce distortion more, but speed should be worse, at least I'd assume from basic physics.

I agree with your logic. There are just too many snake oil in this industry. As for tips selection, based on the measurements in this article, the effects didn't seem to be quite noticeable unless you are using a triple flange which due to its length and funnel effect, may increase certain frequency band slightly.

Therefore, I doubt whatever effect one felt, it could be a confirmation bias.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comply-foam-tips-and-effects-tip-selection#DxogY7eGSF3vDxJj.97

 

[Airlight]

I agree with your logic. There are just too many snake oil in this industry. As for tips selection, based on the measurements in this article, the effects didn't seem to be quite noticeable unless you are using a triple flange which due to its length and funnel effect, may increase certain frequency band slightly.

Therefore, I doubt whatever effect one felt, it could be a conformation bias.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/comply-foam-tips-and-effects-tip-selection#DxogY7eGSF3vDxJj.97

I'm sure there are so many other factors I don't know about and fail to take into account regarding drivers. I'm sure any IEM engineer would shake their head as I mention only 2 of perhaps 20 subtle factors that affect speed and clarity.
 
Regarding tips, I think they can have pretty big differences in sound, both in frequency response and in the attack and decay of a driver. The frequency response bit comes more from the distance to the eardrum and the material and shape of the nozzle, whether it focuses the air pressure well or whether the tips open up and allow the air pressure to diffuse slightly.
 
Some IEMs (mainly the micro-dynamic type) also rely heavily on a strong seal to perform well. If you simply pick tips with much larger air mass inside them (ie larger diameter bore, perhaps also slightly longer bores), then the IEM will have more air between eardrum and driver, and that will affect the sound to a great degree (in my experience), even if you technically have a good seal where no air will get in from the outside. With less air between driver and eardrum, as the driver moves, it would more quickly build up air pressure from the lower volume airmass, which would work to dampen it and provide air resistance to help it more quickly snap back into place. That would however also limit the range of motion more of the driver as the air wants to push it back more and more. With more air between driver and eardrum, when the driver moves the same distance, the air pressure won't increase as much, and thus the driver will not be forced back as well.
 
The GR07 I've seen is generally not a very picky IEM like that. I believe it's well ventilated and so it doesn't create as much of an air pressure cushion to move against and control the movement, which makes sense since the driver (being biocell which can be made very light while retaining rigidity) is so light and can be moved back and forth more easily just by the magnet alone. In fact that to my ears is the unique thing about the GR07, the way it can move (seemingly) uninhibited and thus provide excellent contrast to the dynamics (dynamics are not lessened or more restrained as they get bigger), yet still be so quick to move back and forth and provide separation between frequencies and excellent decay.
 
 
 
Plus the material of the ear tip can by itself suck some nuances out of the air pressure by absorbing certain frequencies.
 
But then again I have plenty of tips from previous purchases and plenty of time to spend hours tip-rolling with new IEMs, plus I'm used to playing with dynamics processors and such from music production, so my brain is very well trained to analyze, for example, applying a transient processor to a specific area of a track, and hearing the nuances of the effect.

 

[ghostie72]

  I'm sure there are so many other factors I don't know about and fail to take into account regarding drivers. I'm sure any IEM engineer would shake their head as I mention only 2 of perhaps 20 subtle factors that affect speed and clarity.
 
Regarding tips, I think they can have pretty big differences in sound, both in frequency response and in the attack and decay of a driver. The frequency response bit comes more from the distance to the eardrum and the material and shape of the nozzle, whether it focuses the air pressure well or whether the tips open up and allow the air pressure to diffuse slightly.
 
Some IEMs (mainly the micro-dynamic type) also rely heavily on a strong seal to perform well. If you simply pick tips with much larger air mass inside them (ie larger diameter bore, perhaps also slightly longer bores), then the IEM will have more air between eardrum and driver, and that will affect the sound to a great degree (in my experience), even if you technically have a good seal where no air will get in from the outside. With less air between driver and eardrum, as the driver moves, it would more quickly build up air pressure from the lower volume airmass, which would work to dampen it and provide air resistance to help it more quickly snap back into place. That would however also limit the range of motion more of the driver as the air wants to push it back more and more. With more air between driver and eardrum, when the driver moves the same distance, the air pressure won't increase as much, and thus the driver will not be forced back as well.
 
The GR07 I've seen is generally not a very picky IEM like that. I believe it's well ventilated and so it doesn't create as much of an air pressure cushion to move against and control the movement, which makes sense since the driver (being biocell which can be made very light while retaining rigidity) is so light and can be moved back and forth more easily just by the magnet alone. In fact that to my ears is the unique thing about the GR07, the way it can move (seemingly) uninhibited and thus provide excellent contrast to the dynamics (dynamics are not lessened or more restrained as they get bigger), yet still be so quick to move back and forth and provide separation between frequencies and excellent decay.
 
 
 
Plus the material of the ear tip can by itself suck some nuances out of the air pressure by absorbing certain frequencies.
 
But then again I have plenty of tips from previous purchases and plenty of time to spend hours tip-rolling with new IEMs, plus I'm used to playing with dynamics processors and such from music production, so my brain is very well trained to analyze, for example, applying a transient processor to a specific area of a track, and hearing the nuances of the effect.

The fact is every ear canal is different. Even for me, my right ear is more tolerant to brightness than my left. Therefore, I respect what you perceived to hear. The tests in the article that I posted up are done in a consistently controlled environment which I suspect would provide a right seal to test the various tips without compromising or deforming the tips original shape and size. However, the dimension of your ear canal cannot be changed and therefore, the tips shape and size have to compromise to fit. Choosing a slightly bigger tip would either form a tighter seal or deform the core to which would affect the sound. Choosing a smaller tip could also affect the sound if the sound leaks. However, if the tip you choose are just right in terms of fit and comfort, it should not have a vast difference in sound, be it silicon or form made. I think you see my point.
 
Ultimately, what you felt could be uniquely your experience but not necessarily be mine. My advice to the rest is don't read too much into such reviews but to experience it yourselves. One man poison is another man's meat.  

 

[Airlight]

 
The fact is every ear canal is different. Even for me, my right ear is more tolerant to brightness than my left. Therefore, I respect what you perceived to hear. The tests in the article that I posted up are done in a consistently controlled environment which I suspect would provide a right seal to test the various tips without compromising or deforming the tips original shape and size. However, the dimension of your ear canal cannot be changed and therefore, the tips shape and size have to compromise to fit. Choosing a slightly bigger tip would either form a tighter seal or deform the core to which would affect the sound. Choosing a smaller tip could also affect the sound if the sound leaks. However, if the tip you choose are just right in terms of fit and comfort, it should not have a vast difference in sound, be it silicon or form made. I think you see my point.
 
Ultimately, what you felt could be uniquely your experience but not necessarily be mine. My advice to the rest is don't read too much into such reviews and experience it yourselves. One man poison is another man's meat.  

 
I agree. Correct me if I'm wrong though, Tylls measurements don't take into account dynamics and driver control, since there is no time domain information to his readings, only (I'm assuming) an equal-energy sine sweep to measure the basic FR? So a microdynamic driver (or any driver) relying on a small airmass to damp it would perhaps only register as having generally louder bass when fitted with bigger volume tips, when listening to them would also reveal a looser bass with less definition and ability to translate dynamics?
 
Also what I describe as a huge change might not be noticeable to anyone else. I once had a friend lend me his Jays IEM and it seems he was content listening to a sound that was about 80% panned to the right (probably due to a clogged sound tube or defective/damaged driver). Meanwhile I'd decide on a certain tip choice based on how it changes the treble balance a dB or 2. There's a lot of variance there.
 
 
I really like that Spinfit tips were included from Vsonic, I'd never used them before and they certainly seem comfortable and well-fitting. Looking at their design it's actually quite ingenious, with a thinner section of the sound tubing allowing for a pivoting motion. I'm sure they alone are a noticeable part of the retail price.