[toaster]

Yes and I can see why people prefer the OG more than the EXT because there is nothing "in front of" the mids, as in, it is always the star of the show. In fact, I think 5 years ago I would say the EXT is rubbish because I didn't like (DD) bass back then.

EXT is more "balanced" in that regard and depending on track, the mids are not always the standout feature, comparatively speaking. I personally think the EXT mids is absolutely amazing and I still consider that as one of the standout features (DD bass is nothing new, but DD mids + VE vocal tuning is something special for me) and I just can't see myself going back to BA mids, but I also can see myself picking the OG depending on track or my listening mood.

some interesting points here.

the incorporation of a dd for mids on the original elysium was genius, imo, and a bit of a flex of ve's capabilities. and it's true that ve tuned the original elysium based on their tuning prowess and desires.

the ext, however, is tuned with the incorporation of customer feedback.

so while ve's tuning prowess is very much on full display, it is likely not their first tuning choice for an iem with dd mids. the fact that ve didn't cleave "elysium" from the name leads me to believe that this was indeed more an evolution of the original elysium's sound spawned from client feedback, rather than a completely new creation conceived by ve.

this is of note, because to me it means that ve may have done something (that maybe they didn't do at first for a reason,) and it may have led to something different than what they envisioned was the ideal sound for an iem with dd mids.

so, even if the mids still are amazing, and i am absolutely sure they are, it's unquestionable that the re-positioning of the supporting frequencies will have an impact on how much of the spotlight is aimed at the incredible mids we all know and love from the og elysium, which is arguably a huge part of what makes the og so special. and this is something that we all discussed and speculated about back when we imagined what it would be to have the dd mids of the elysium AND dd bass, too.

Now, thanks to the fact that ve listened, and knows their way around driver arrays, we now have the ext. And for that, ve deserves much credit and respect.

so, ultimately while i have no reason to doubt that the sound of the ext will be wonderful and i look forward to hearing it, it is understandable why some may end up preferring the original tuning of the og elysium.

lastly, listening to erlky right now...completely agree that ve has some of the best vocals in the game.

 

[Skullar]

Everyone keeps describing the EXT as V-shaped yet rave about the mids. To my understanding mids will generally be recessed in a V-shaped IEM...otherwise it wouldn't be a V-shaped IEM

Heard that more than once. I think that many consider upper mid elevation as inclusive to V shape signature. And some dont. So there is a bit of confusion sometimes. Looking at graph alone it looks between V and W to make it less confusing

 

[Tristy]

some interesting points here.

the incorporation of a dd for mids on the original elysium was genius, imo, and a bit of a flex of ve's capabilities. and it's true that ve tuned the original elysium based on their tuning prowess and desires.

the ext, however, is tuned with the incorporation of customer feedback.

so while ve's tuning prowess is very much on full display, it is likely not their first tuning choice for an iem with dd mids. the fact that ve didn't cleave "elysium" from the name leads me to believe that this was indeed more an evolution of the original elysium's sound spawned from client feedback, rather than a completely new creation conceived by ve.

this is of note, because to me it means that ve may have done something (that maybe they didn't do at first for a reason,) and it may have led to something different than what they envisioned was the ideal sound for an iem with dd mids.

so, even if the mids still are amazing, and i am absolutely sure they are, it's unquestionable that the re-positioning of the supporting frequencies will have an impact on how much of the spotlight is aimed at the incredible mids we all know and love from the og elysium, which is arguably a huge part of what makes the og so special. and this is something that we all discussed and speculated about back when we imagined what it would be to have the dd mids of the elysium AND dd bass, too.

Now, thanks to the fact that ve listened, and knows their way around driver arrays, we now have the ext. And for that, ve deserves much credit and respect.

so, ultimately while i have no reason to doubt that the sound of the ext will be wonderful and i look forward to hearing it, it is understandable why some may end up preferring the original tuning of the og elysium.

lastly, listening to erlky right now...completely agree that ve has some of the best vocals in the game.

What's to say that VE even had the capability to implement a DD for the bass back then along with the DD mids? I mean they've only ever used a DD for lows in one other IEM and this was after the release of the original Elysium (Meister). I've never heard the original so I can't comment on similarities and differences etc but it sounds like they are quite different tunings based on impressions and graphs. Maybe VE would have been better served giving the EXT a different name...

 

[toaster]

What's to say that VE even had the capability to implement a DD for the bass back then along with the DD mids? I mean they've only ever used a DD for lows in one other IEM and this was after the release of the original Elysium (Meister). I've never heard the original so I can't comment on similarities and differences etc but it sounds like they are quite different tunings based on impressions and graphs. Maybe VE would have been better served giving the EXT a different name...

That’s why I think the fact ve didn’t give it a new name points to the ext being a direct response to the market and giving us what we wanted: an Elysium with dd bass.

 

[Tristy]

That’s why I think the fact ve didn’t give it a new name points to the ext being a direct response to the market and giving us what we wanted: an Elysium with dd bass.

The point I'm getting at is that VE may have originally envisioned the Elysium to have DD bass and Mids but didn't have the capacity to implement it before. So what's to say its in response to consumer demand? I mean, I'm just playing devils advocate here and obviously I don't know myself. Only VE would know for sure I guess. Judging from the promotional video introducing the EXT and Phonix it sounds like the quantity of EXT's bass had been raised in relation to consumer demand but the reasoning behind implementing a DD for the lows instead of BA/s is anyones guess.

 

[kevin638880]

That’s why I think the fact ve didn’t give it a new name points to the ext being a direct response to the market and giving us what we wanted: an Elysium with dd bass.

Which comes back to what we have agreed upon, due to the different tuning people may prefer the OG more.

Speaking of which, I am picking up a second hand (really great price, can't resist!) OG Elysium tomorrow just for the HK/Taiwan vocals, in which those tracks have nearly no bass anyway lol.

By the way...

 

[toaster]

Which comes back to what we have agreed upon, due to the different tuning people may prefer the OG more.

Speaking of which, I am picking up a second hand (really great price, can't resist!) OG Elysium tomorrow just for the HK/Taiwan vocals, in which those tracks have nearly no bass anyway lol.

 

[toaster]

The point I'm getting at is that VE may have originally envisioned the Elysium to have DD bass and Mids but didn't have the capacity to implement it before. So what's to say its in response to consumer demand? I mean, I'm just playing devils advocate here and obviously I don't know myself. Only VE would know for sure I guess. Judging from the promotional video introducing the EXT and Phonix it sounds like the quantity of EXT's bass had been raised in relation to consumer demand but the implementation of a DD for the lows instead of BA/s is anyones guess.

that's a possibility.

however, if you look at the overall tuning of the elysium, it's simply tuned bass-light, and i understand and appreciate why they did this. so, if i were to guess, i'd say ve intentionally strayed from heavy bass tuning (or dd bass) on the og elysium for the purpose of spotlighting the mids.

i could be wrong...just thinking out loud and sharing some thoughts that popped into my head.

regardless, looking forward to hearing the ext for myself!

 

[Tristy]

that's a possibility.

however, if you look at the overall tuning of the elysium, it's simply tuned bass-light, and i understand and appreciate why they did this. so, if i were to guess, i'd say ve intentionally strayed from heavy bass tuning (or dd bass) on the og elysium for the purpose of spotlighting the mids.

i could be wrong...just thinking out loud and sharing some thoughts that popped into my head.

regardless, looking forward to hearing the ext for myself!

Thats cool, I just thought I'd offer an alternative view haha I didn't mean to be stand-offish if thats the way it's coming across. I enjoy discussions like this and I think thats what these forums are so good for. Hopefully you get to hear it sooner or later as I'd enjoy reading your impressions as one of the IEM "whales" around here

 

[Deezel177]

Very first thought and question that popped into my mind when I saw that graph. That left side droop is just...no. But then bass extension and rumble isn't exactly what you're buying a Phönix for. Would love to see EXT on the same rig by comparison, and EVO too if you have access to one.


Wasn't that the best part of Ely though? Bass too light, treble too bright, mids to die for? Seems EXT fixes all the bad and keeps the good.

I just tried measuring the EXT again with the AZLA tips, and I got a very repeatable result. If you compare it against Crinacle's, as I said, there's less sub-bass presence and a smoother treble. I'm thinking it's a combination of my MacBook's headphone output (not the best in low-end extension, most likely) and differences in the mic as well:

I also remeasured the PHoNIX with the same tips, but one size smaller. This let me insert it deeper and more securely into the coupler, and it gave me an even smoother graph than before:

Here are the two layered over each other, roughly equalised at the bass and high-mids:

Everyone keeps describing the EXT as V-shaped yet rave about the mids. To my understanding mids will generally be recessed in a V-shaped IEM...otherwise it wouldn't be a V-shaped IEM, but rather a U (neutral mids) or W (forward mids). What am I missing?

Yeah, the praise given towards the ELYSIUM's midrange was often misconstrued towards it being mid-forward, but I've always maintained that it's neutrally-positioned at best. I said exactly that on my review. What was praised was more so the quality, texture and movement of it; its vividness and tactility. Its e-stat treble played a huge role in providing its articulation as well, which is why I called it the unsung MVP on my first look.

An IEM doesn't have to be mid-forward to have a quality midrange. I actually have the opposite reaction most of the time. If an IEM is noticeably mid-forward, its midrange would be the quality I'd appreciate least, because of how it's throwing off the IEM's balance. The same goes for, say, the bass. I can only appreciate its quality if it isn't abhorrently in my face. The LX is an example of an IEM that pushes the bass enough to be noticed and appreciated, but not enough to be egregious. So, for me, the key to having a quality attribute is to actually have it sit nicely, rather than forcedly pushed.

some interesting points here.

the incorporation of a dd for mids on the original elysium was genius, imo, and a bit of a flex of ve's capabilities. and it's true that ve tuned the original elysium based on their tuning prowess and desires.

the ext, however, is tuned with the incorporation of customer feedback.

so while ve's tuning prowess is very much on full display, it is likely not their first tuning choice for an iem with dd mids. the fact that ve didn't cleave "elysium" from the name leads me to believe that this was indeed more an evolution of the original elysium's sound spawned from client feedback, rather than a completely new creation conceived by ve.

this is of note, because to me it means that ve may have done something (that maybe they didn't do at first for a reason,) and it may have led to something different than what they envisioned was the ideal sound for an iem with dd mids.

so, even if the mids still are amazing, and i am absolutely sure they are, it's unquestionable that the re-positioning of the supporting frequencies will have an impact on how much of the spotlight is aimed at the incredible mids we all know and love from the og elysium, which is arguably a huge part of what makes the og so special. and this is something that we all discussed and speculated about back when we imagined what it would be to have the dd mids of the elysium AND dd bass, too.

Now, thanks to the fact that ve listened, and knows their way around driver arrays, we now have the ext. And for that, ve deserves much credit and respect.

so, ultimately while i have no reason to doubt that the sound of the ext will be wonderful and i look forward to hearing it, it is understandable why some may end up preferring the original tuning of the og elysium.

lastly, listening to erlky right now...completely agree that ve has some of the best vocals in the game.

I agree with this completely. It'd be near-impossible to love both the EXT and the ELY for the same reason, because what one specialises in will automatically contradict the other. I think it's very much possible to appreciate both equally, but they're inherently different, which I believe was VE's intention. Personally, I appreciate that they created something fairly different with the EXT, rather than simply recreate the ELY with a DD woofer. I can imagine a world where they did do that, and people would complain that they're asking for $2000+ for almost the same IEM; that they didn't do anything but add a DD woofer. I can also see the other side of the argument where straying a tad too much from the OG would turn some people off. So, there's really no clean win in VE's shoes. But, either way, at the end of the day, like the LX and EVO, they're both still available for purchase anyway, so it's all good for both parties.

 

[aaf evo]

Drooling...

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I just tried measuring the EXT again with the AZLA tips, and I got a very repeatable result. If you compare it against Crinacle's, as I said, there's less sub-bass presence and a smoother treble. I'm thinking it's a combination of my MacBook's headphone output (not the best in low-end extension, most likely) and differences in the mic as well:



I also remeasured the PHoNIX with the same tips, but one size smaller. This let me insert it deeper and more securely into the coupler, and it gave me an even smoother graph than before:



Here are the two layered over each other, roughly equalised at the bass and high-mids:





Yeah, the praise given towards the ELYSIUM's midrange was often misconstrued towards it being mid-forward, but I've always maintained that it's neutrally-positioned at best. I said exactly that on my review. What was praised was more so the quality, texture and movement of it; its vividness and tactility. Its e-stat treble played a huge role in providing its articulation as well, which is why I called it the unsung MVP on my first look.

An IEM doesn't have to be mid-forward to have a quality midrange. I actually have the opposite reaction most of the time. If an IEM is noticeably mid-forward, its midrange would be the quality I'd appreciate least, because of how it's throwing off the IEM's balance. The same goes for, say, the bass. I can only appreciate its quality if it isn't abhorrently in my face. The LX is an example of an IEM that pushes the bass enough to be noticed and appreciated, but not enough to be egregious. So, for me, the key to having a quality attribute is to actually have it sit nicely, rather than forcedly pushed.


I agree with this completely. It'd be near-impossible to love both the EXT and the ELY for the same reason, because what one specialises in will automatically contradict the other. I think it's very much possible to appreciate both equally, but they're inherently different, which I believe was VE's intention. Personally, I appreciate that they created something fairly different with the EXT, rather than simply recreate the ELY with a DD woofer. I can imagine a world where they did do that, and people would complain that they're asking for $2000+ for almost the same IEM; that they didn't do anything but add a DD woofer. I can also see the other side of the argument where straying a tad too much from the OG would turn some people off. So, there's really no clean win in VE's shoes. But, either way, at the end of the day, like the LX and EVO, they're both still available for purchase anyway, so it's all good for both parties.

Very interesting. I was hoping that the EXT was just an upgraded Ely. I guess that is a bad assumption. I will need to hear Ely, EXT and Phonix to determine which one I like the most.

 

[Deezel177]

Very interesting. I was hoping that the EXT was just an upgraded Ely. I guess that is a bad assumption. I will need to hear Ely, EXT and Phonix to determine which one I like the most.

Indeed. This is that EXT measurement vs. one I took of my custom ELYSIUM some time ago, by the way:

 

[Tanjiro]

I would never call EXT has a recessed mid. It's just the mid is not the spotlight of the show like OG Elysium.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Indeed. This is that EXT measurement vs. one I took of my custom ELYSIUM some time ago, by the way:

Man, I will be very surprised if I like that rolled off bass response.