Usb 24 192khz M2tech Hiface
Sep 28, 2010 at 7:53 PM Post #1,741 of 1,958
So I tried the 20dB attenuator and i noticed a subtle improvement. I mean on the level of cables. I did some comparisons back and forth and I agree with Bubu1's assessment. There is a bit more bass and everything is a bit more focused. The treble wasn't affected (I was anticipating a rolloff for some reason). Not a bad improvement for the price paid.
 
Sep 28, 2010 at 8:21 PM Post #1,742 of 1,958
Correct, I did do the small vs big comparison.  But I did not open the borrowed unit, because it would be kinda disrespectful of me to open up a man's modded hiface before he even saw it.  I do believe that it had 2 big clocks in it because jkeny had to guarantee his customer that I wouldn't swap the units...  You can imagine how he would be worried about that.  Also, that unit was manufactured long after this whole thing started so I don't think John would want to deal with a small clock issue. 
 
I'm going to have another opportunity to do a side by side.  One of my friends ordered a modded hiface and I can post pics of the inside of both if anyone is interested.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
On the other side of the coin, xdanny couldn't hear any differences between his small clock and a borrowed large clock version through his speaker rig....  but I'm wondering  if he opened the borrowed unit to see what was in it?   (many apologies if pics of the internals of the borrowed unit were already posted, and even more if it was not xdanny who did the large clock-small clock  comparison)
 
 
USG

 
Sep 28, 2010 at 9:09 PM Post #1,743 of 1,958
Quote:
Well, you have had problems hearing any differences from the beginning, while Shahrose did not.  You both have the same modification unit.   You both have similar DACs and very good equipment so the reason why you don't hear any differences, and Shahrose does, might very well be the clock issue.....   which might not turn out to be a wild goose chase after all.  
 
There is no question that my large clocked replacementFace sounded better than my small clocked originalFace and Shamu reported a similar thing when he compared the two of them...  There is also the fact that Regal replaced his small clock mod with a large clock mod, at his own expense, because Marco wouldn't exchange it for him.
 
On the other side of the coin, xdanny couldn't hear any differences between his small clock and a borrowed large clock version through his speaker rig....  but I'm wondering  if he opened the borrowed unit to see what was in it?   (many apologies if pics of the internals of the borrowed unit were already posted, and even more if it was not xdanny who did the large clock-small clock  comparison)
 
So bottom line:  open it up, inquiring minds need to know.......
beyersmile.png

 
USG

 
Ok.  So I opened it and it wasn't near as difficult as I thought and here's a photo.
 

 
So, am I using the small or large clocks?  After looking at images in the other thread addressing clock size, I see that I have the larger clocks.  Again, I'm not in the least surprised.
 
Sep 28, 2010 at 9:44 PM Post #1,745 of 1,958

Shahrose,
I'm glad that the level of improvement was worth it to you and that you were able to get the 20dB attenuator to work.  I would not steer you in the wrong direction!!!!
I have found that the more I listen with the attenuator in my system the more subtleties I notice in the music such as wall reflections or identifying less obvious instruments in the mix. I have found that layering is particularly good with this setup and that if I remove the attenuator the sound becomes more 2 dimensional.
Glad I could help!
Cheers and enjoy,
Tom
Quote:
So I tried the 20dB attenuator and i noticed a subtle improvement. I mean on the level of cables. I did some comparisons back and forth and I agree with Bubu1's assessment. There is a bit more bass and everything is a bit more focused. The treble wasn't affected (I was anticipating a rolloff for some reason). Not a bad improvement for the price paid.Ss

 
Sep 28, 2010 at 9:45 PM Post #1,746 of 1,958


 
Quote:
Correct, I did do the small vs big comparison.  But I did not open the borrowed unit, because it would be kinda disrespectful of me to open up a man's modded hiface before he even saw it.  I do believe that it had 2 big clocks in it because jkeny had to guarantee his customer that I wouldn't swap the units... 


Here a great review of your DAC which perhaps explains why you think the small clocks sound the same as the large,  it takes a decent DAC to notice the difference between transports.
 
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=digital&m=151541
 
 
Sep 28, 2010 at 9:49 PM Post #1,747 of 1,958
aimlink,
Nice pic. It is quite easy to open up the modded unit.  I was quite impressed with John's work when I opened mine up.  
Are you relieved to know that you have 2 big clocks?
biggrin.gif
  
 
Will you be keeping the attenuator in your system?
 
Quote:
 
Ok.  So I opened it and it wasn't near as difficult as I thought and here's a photo.
 

 
So, am I using the small or large clocks?  After looking at images in the other thread addressing clock size, I see that I have the larger clocks.  Again, I'm not in the least surprised.

 
Sep 28, 2010 at 9:54 PM Post #1,748 of 1,958


Quote:
aimlink,
Nice pic. It is quite easy to open up the modded unit.  I was quite impressed with John's work when I opened mine up.  
Are you relieved to know that you have 2 big clocks?
biggrin.gif
  
 
Will you be keeping the attenuator in your system?
 

 
About the big clocks... I'm relieved since I'll not be hearing speculations about it being the clocks that are the problem.
 
I'll leave the attenuator in place, yes.
 
Sep 28, 2010 at 10:35 PM Post #1,749 of 1,958
 
 
Ooooh yeah!  You've found a good one there didn't ya?  Took you what, 3 weeks to dig it out?  Brilliant review, stellar!!
 
Here is one for you by your good friend!  More legit too, and guess what, this one's not using  words like "s..t" and "suck".  Perhaps you should give it a listen sometime, that is for the few moments when you're actually off that valium you're taking.
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/bryston-bda-1-dac-review
 
 
And while you're at it, kindly explain why not too long ago you were saying that the modded hiface (even with the small clock) was "the best digital sound you've ever heard" . 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503323/hiface-sensitive-information/165#post_6888956
 
So, according to your statement and post, can we all assume a) that your dac sucks as much as mine, or b) that you have NO clue of what the heck you're talking about.
 
 
Quote:
Here a great review of your DAC which perhaps explains why you think the small clocks sound the same as the large,  it takes a decent DAC to notice the difference between transports.
 
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=digital&m=151541
 

 
Sep 29, 2010 at 6:51 AM Post #1,751 of 1,958


Quote:
 
Ooooh yeah!  You've found a good one there didn't ya?  Took you what, 3 weeks to dig it out?  Brilliant review, stellar!!
 
Here is one for you by your good friend!  More legit too, and guess what, this one's not using  words like "s..t" and "suck".  Perhaps you should give it a listen sometime, that is for the few moments when you're actually off that valium you're taking.
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/bryston-bda-1-dac-review
 

 
Haha!  I see you love your DAC as I do mine.
 
From the review you sited, it would seem that the same thing comes up as with an article sited by Regal himself.
 
You have a DAC capable of markedly reducing jitter from an incoming digital signal.
 
The same DAC only mildly adds jitter to an already jitter free source
 
You end up with consistently low jitter digital signal going to the DAC stage for conversion.
 
You therefore end up with no audible difference detected between two transports, one with little jitter and another, with quite a bit of jitter.
 
Sep 29, 2010 at 7:37 AM Post #1,752 of 1,958


Quote:
 
Haha!  I see you love your DAC as I do mine.
 
From the review you sited, it would seem that the same thing comes up as with an article sited by Regal himself.
 
You have a DAC capable of markedly reducing jitter from an incoming digital signal.
 
The same DAC only mildly adds jitter to an already jitter free source
 
You end up with consistently low jitter digital signal going to the DAC stage for conversion.
 
You therefore end up with no audible difference detected between two transports, one with little jitter and another, with quite a bit of jitter.



Exactly,  but I am sure Xdanny's thin skin will flare up with your post so watch out.
 
Sep 29, 2010 at 9:10 AM Post #1,753 of 1,958


Quote:
Exactly,  but I am sure Xdanny's thin skin will flare up with your post so watch out.
 

 
You had mentioned that only a decent DAC will detect differences between transports and I agree with this only if upsampling is disabled.  I'm unable to disable upsampling on mine.  Does this limitation make it not decent enough? 
biggrin.gif

 
If the Bryson's upsampling can be disabled, then it should be able to differentiate two transports with significant differences in jitter.  However, with effective upsampling, the inferior transport will sound better to the point where it's inaudibly different from the transport with low jitter.
 
Finally, without some objective testing, a lot of the testimony here has to be taken for what it is..., i.e., a subjective assessment.  You therefore have to be careful in how you respond to it in terms of chasing after a similar experience.  You may well never get it, even with identical setups.  On that note, I'm thinking that it's time for me to stop.
evil_smiley.gif

 
Sep 29, 2010 at 11:24 AM Post #1,754 of 1,958

 
Quote:
So I tried the 20dB attenuator and i noticed a subtle improvement. I mean on the level of cables. I did some comparisons back and forth and I agree with Bubu1's assessment. There is a bit more bass and everything is a bit more focused. The treble wasn't affected (I was anticipating a rolloff for some reason). Not a bad improvement for the price paid.

 
I too, would have thought the treble should have been improved the way Regal described.  The bass improvement is a an unexpected benefit.  
 
On the other hand, the improvements are so subtle, are you really sure  they are there, or could they be the result of.... well, you know.......   considering that you have an upsampling DAC? 
smile_phones.gif


 
Quote:
Correct, I did do the small vs big comparison.  But I did not open the borrowed unit, because it would be kinda disrespectful of me to open up a man's modded hiface before he even saw it.  I do believe that it had 2 big clocks in it because jkeny had to guarantee his customer that I wouldn't swap the units...  You can imagine how he would be worried about that.  Also, that unit was manufactured long after this whole thing started so I don't think John would want to deal with a small clock issue. 
 
I'm going to have another opportunity to do a side by side.  One of my friends ordered a modded hiface and I can post pics of the inside of both if anyone is interested.
 

 
That's an interesting comment.  Would I be right in assuming that the other customer wanted the large clocks?
 
Quote:
 
Ok.  So I opened it and it wasn't near as difficult as I thought and here's a photo.
 

 
So, am I using the small or large clocks?  After looking at images in the other thread addressing clock size, I see that I have the larger clocks.  Again, I'm not in the least surprised.


Hi Aimlink
 
OK, so that's not the reason you hear no difference between the HF mod and optical out of your MB.  Back to square one on that issue.
 
(It would be so much better if you posted your equipment in your profile so I didn't have to go through a bunch posts all the time to make sure I knew what you had.....  just saying.

 
Quote:
Shahrose,
I'm glad that the level of improvement was worth it to you and that you were able to get the 20dB attenuator to work.  I would not steer you in the wrong direction!!!!
I have found that the more I listen with the attenuator in my system the more subtleties I notice in the music such as wall reflections or identifying less obvious instruments in the mix. I have found that layering is particularly good with this setup and that if I remove the attenuator the sound becomes more 2 dimensional.
Glad I could help!
Cheers and enjoy,
Tom


Are you really sure of this?  Have you tried any unsighted experiments?  Knowing what you're listening to makes such a big difference.  I'm always wary of discoveries made during sighted trials, having fallen into that quagmire myself.
 
Quote:
Here a great review of your DAC which perhaps explains why you think the small clocks sound the same as the large,  it takes a decent DAC to notice the difference between transports.
 
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=digital&m=151541

 

Quote:
Ooooh yeah!  You've found a good one there didn't ya?  Took you what, 3 weeks to dig it out?  Brilliant review, stellar!!
 
Here is one for you by your good friend!  More legit too, and guess what, this one's not using  words like "s..t" and "suck".  Perhaps you should give it a listen sometime, that is for the few moments when you're actually off that valium you're taking.
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/bryston-bda-1-dac-review
 

 
If you follow the dollar, the essence of those 2 reviews becomes clear.  One was written by a consumer and the other was written by a promoter.....  just my opinion.
 
Quote:
 
You had mentioned that only a decent DAC will detect differences between transports and I agree with this only if upsampling is disabled.  I'm unable to disable upsampling on mine.  Does this limitation make it not decent enough? 
biggrin.gif

 
If the Bryson's upsampling can be disabled, then it should be able to differentiate two transports with significant differences in jitter.  However, with effective upsampling, the inferior transport will sound better to the point where it's inaudibly different from the transport with low jitter.
 
Finally, without some objective testing, a lot of the testimony here has to be taken for what it is..., i.e., a subjective assessment.  You therefore have to be careful in how you respond to it in terms of chasing after a similar experience.  You may well never get it, even with identical setups.  On that note, I'm thinking that it's time for me to stop.
evil_smiley.gif

 
Shahrose reported that he hears transport differences with his upsampling DAC.
 
I'm sure xdanny tried it both ways and didn't hear a difference between the clocks but hears a difference with transports.
 
What is troubling is that you hear no difference at all... even the transport volume difference that Shahrose,  myself, and others hear, so I don't think it's time for you stop because we still haven't figured out the cause of your anomaly.
 
On the other hand, maybe it's time to try another transport since this one clearly doesn't work in your system, (through no fault of your own).  
 
Why not take jkeny up on his generous public offer of a refund and report back if the offer turns out to be bogus.  How you're treated would be something  that  future modification purchasers would like to know.
 
USG
 
 
Sep 29, 2010 at 11:33 AM Post #1,755 of 1,958
Hey E, I'm wondering what regal's source is? Has he tried the attenuators?
 
In my system, everything became more focused and tight, including the bass. The lowest octave became a bit more prominent too. The attenuator and converter plugs with shipping only cost me around $30, so it's definitely worth it. People pay hundreds for cables to get a similar change.
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