[DaveBSC]

 
Quote:

This is just like any other claim someone makes.  Unless you have heard a really good S/PDIF cable, most just dont get it and refuse to believe it.  BTW, there are plenty of $500 cables out there that are junk too.  
Steve N.
Empirical Audio

My big question is how the Hiface with a high quality S/Pdif cable like a Vardig would compare to USB going straight into an asych capable DAC like the North Star USB DAC 32. With two computers it would be possible to do a very fast A/B comparison.

 

[regal]

Quote:

 

My big question is how the Hiface with a high quality S/Pdif cable like a Vardig would compare to USB going straight into an asych capable DAC like the North Star USB DAC 32. With two computers it would be possible to do a very fast A/B comparison.

I don't think the Northstar has BNC input does it?

 

[regal]

A vacuum or air dielectric 75 ohm cable?   Get real,  completly impractical and downright rediculous.
 
 
 
Quote:

 
 

1. Skin-effect - mostly a function of the conductor diameter
2. Losses and Dispersion - a function of the dielectric - teflon is good, expanded Teflon is better, air is even better, vacuum is best
3. Impedance matching - as close to 75 ohms as possible
4. Conductor metallurgy - jumbled crystal lattice causes lots of micro-reflections.  Good cables use pure perfect crystal silver or gold
5. Conductor Geometry - Correct geometry rejects common-mode noise and RF

 
This is needed in ADDITION to the attenuator, not to replace it.  The problem is that the signal is out of spec.
 
This is just like any other claim someone makes.  Unless you have heard a really good S/PDIF cable, most just dont get it and refuse to believe it.  BTW, there are plenty of $500 cables out there that are junk too.
 
Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[DaveBSC]

No, I don't think any of the currently available DACs with asynch USB built in also have BNC inputs. I wish more DACs had them. M2Tech's Young DAC will have both BNC and asynch USB, but I don't think its up to the level of the North Star, and the Vaughan costs as much as a Weiss DAC202!

 

[regal]

Quote:

No, I don't think any of the currently available DACs with asynch USB built in also have BNC inputs. I wish more DACs had them. M2Tech's Young DAC will have both BNC and asynch USB, but I don't think its up to the level of the North Star, and the Vaughan costs as much as a Weiss DAC202!

The specifically don't because they don't want you to compare their USB implementation to a quality conventional transport

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

The specifically don't because they don't want you to compare their USB implementation to a quality conventional transport

I don't think there's some nefarious plot, I just think that they expect you to either use AES/EBU which any decent transport will have, or the I2S input if you have a North Star transport. BNC inputs on DACs just aren't all that common.

 

[digger945]

Quote:

I don't think there's some nefarious plot, I just think that they expect you to either use AES/EBU which any decent transport will have, or the I2S input if you have a North Star transport. BNC inputs on DACs just aren't all that common.
 
 
 

It would be great if there was a formal format for I2S.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

It would be great if there was a formal format for I2S.

Yeah, no kidding. Mostly I2S is either some type of DIN format or RJ-45 based. PS Audio's idea to use HDMI is a clever one, but of course it only works with the PWT/PWD or the W4S DACs. If everybody could just agree to pick a connector and stick with it, it would make things a hell of a lot easier.

 

[mmerrill99]

Quote:

 
 

1. Skin-effect - mostly a function of the conductor diameter
2. Losses and Dispersion - a function of the dielectric - teflon is good, expanded Teflon is better, air is even better, vacuum is best
3. Impedance matching - as close to 75 ohms as possible
4. Conductor metallurgy - jumbled crystal lattice causes lots of micro-reflections.  Good cables use pure perfect crystal silver or gold
5. Conductor Geometry - Correct geometry rejects common-mode noise and RF

 
This is needed in ADDITION to the attenuator, not to replace it.  The problem is that the signal is out of spec.
 
This is just like any other claim someone makes.  Unless you have heard a really good S/PDIF cable, most just dont get it and refuse to believe it.  BTW, there are plenty of $500 cables out there that are junk too.
 
Steve N.
Empirical Audio

I was hoping you might say what effect each of these had on the SPDIF signal - I already knew what most meant just wasn't sure about their effects in digital signalling so let's take each one:
- skin effect - this is where the HF signal stays mostly in the outer layer of the wire. How is this a problem in digital signals? I can understand how it might be a problem at audio freqs where LF rides inside the wire & HF on the outside - different characteristics/speed?  
- losses aren't that significant in the length of cables we are using in SPDIF, are they?
- dispersion - what do you mean here?
- impedance tolerance i.e staying as close to the 75 ohm as possible is always good but this can be affected by a kink in the cable or somebody standing on it, no? So even with the best cable if not treated carefully you can lose this attribute. Does the attenuator not ameliorate these impedance mismatches both in the cable & at the connectors & through to the DAC & to the transport i.e anywhere along the signal path?
- metallurgy - now we might be getting into bybee territory? Can these micro-reflections be demonstrated/measured or where does this notion come from?
- common mode noise - I thought we were talking about coaxial SPDIF cables & not differential ones?
 

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

This is just like any other claim someone makes.  Unless you have heard a really good S/PDIF cable, most just dont get it and refuse to believe it.  BTW, there are plenty of $500 cables out there that are junk too.
 
Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Mr Snake Oil Salesman, are you sure you don't want to sell us on some blackbodies or $500,000 solid gold/platinum/insert other absurdly expensive B.S. cables while you're here?

 

[audioengr]

Dalamar - When you are ready to learn something, let me know.  I was doing this long before you were born.
 
Steve N.

 

[leeperry]

the main issue w/ $500 interconnects is to know where your  money is? you're paying for R&D I presume? Do these half-grand cable sellers use every pricey measurements package like AP? Why does a mere copper cable cost more than solid gold, and possibly platinum?
 
Do they have anything to backup that their "supergood" cables measure better than the competition? Or should we believe them on good faith? Is pricetag a valid point of reference?
 
And I'd hate to sound personal, but on your site you're selling $1300 power cables: http://www.empiricalaudio.com/cables/power-cables
 
for that kind of money, you can get a much bigger improvement than what a power cable will ever be able to do for you IMVHO.
 
Anyway, each to his one...as we say in France: "as long as there'll be someone to buy it, there'll be someone to sell it".

 

[h.rav]

has anyone read this thread: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/11678/0/0/0/ ?

 

[leeperry]

 

has anyone read this thread: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/11678/0/0/0/ ?

What truly sucks is that Mr Lavry is always right, hah. One of the only persons I fully trust in the audio world.

 

[mmerrill99]

Quote:

has anyone read this thread: http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/11678/0/0/0/ ?

Thanks for the link - I went to Lavry's site & registered on the forum to read the technical papers - so far great reading!