UPGRADING THE CRYSTAL (X0) ON ESSENCE STX

[GWorlDofSPACE]

ABLAZE! You should try the clock upgrade, its very impressive upgrade. You will not recognise your STX.

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

Out there!!)
Has anyone tried the upgrade on the STX???
I cant wait for more reviews.

 

[thoppa]

Nice upgrades !

I have the ST and am just about to start the upgrade process. The best clock I've used is a Tent Labs XO but they require a special circuit so I'm going to try something simpler, a Vanguard TCXO which is 1ppm. Like you, I have heard the benefits of low jitter and I think it is one of the most important upgrades to any digital audio circuit.

Ultra precision 1ppm 24.576MHz TCXO crystal oscillator on eBay (end time 13-Aug-09 07:20:52 BST)

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

I heard about the vanguard but I think you should try something like audio-gd jz-1 or tendlabs. They have external PSU source to min. the noise.
I have experienced that the clock upgrade was far more major then the op amps.

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the ST and am just about to start the upgrade process.

what for? the clock conditioning IC on the ST can break it down up to 0.5ppm(from what its datasheet says).

plus these 1ppm clocks worsen overtime, several ppm/year...do you really expect any audible improvement at all

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

I say the better choice for my understanding is to upgrade the crystal on the STX instead of selling STX and buying a ST, but if you have the ST, I dont know what would be the results. We should let thoppa do his work and then he will make a review then we will know.

 

[leeperry]

well your clock is 5ppm, so theoritically the ST should be tighter. but indeed the STX measures better than the ST in RMAA on the line-out...so it's a mixed bag.

 

[thoppa]

Hi,

The ST has a crap clock, just the same as the STX. I won't hear as big a change as STX users because of the CS2000 already improving things.

However, a crap clock with clock conditioning is not as good as a good clock with clock conditioning. I hope. I've never tried this before and the CS2000 is new too so i might just be the first person anywhere to try this; a 'frontier' adventure. I've re-clocked lots of stuff but never something that has clock conditioning already. Interesting ?

I expect to achieve the CS2000 optimum of 0.5ppm, which i don't think the ST achieves at present, and despite clock degradation over the years, it'll stay ultra-low too. I don't care much if it blows up in 3 years. I'll be looking for something new by then anyway.

Will I hear a difference ? Well, that's the whole point isn't it ?! If I don't, I enjoyed the experiment. I've been doing audio DIY as a hobby for 25 years, with some real triumphs and disasters, and a few 240v shocks, but most of all, I really enjoy doing it. And if I do hear an improvement, then maybe this card will start to get close to my SACD/DVD-A ASRC player; it uses a Tent labs XO.

For US$25 ? Come on...that's not that much.

First to change is the caps, and I'm still waiting for them to come in the post....

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif well your clock is 5ppm, so theoritically the ST should be tighter. but indeed the STX measures better than the ST in RMAA on the line-out...so it's a mixed bag.

I am really happy whit my upgraded clock. If I had a ST I would upgrade the clock anywhere. To let this craped crystal on it is a sin.)))

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, a crap clock with clock conditioning is not as good as a good clock with clock conditioning. I hope. [..] For US$25 ? Come on...that's not that much.

well, I've had both the STX and ST...and I've switched them several times. the outcome was that the stereo image was far more accurate/natural/cleaner on the ST, the STX sounded muddy and messy in comparison.

I know there's always something better out there! the reason why some ppl buy $3K amps...but quite frankly I don't think you would hear an improvement w/ a more accurate clock, as the CS2k IC job is exactly that....increasing the clock accuracy.

and GWorld believes that the stock clock is around 50ppm, his new Audio-GD clock 5ppm....and that there's no audible difference between 1ppm and 5ppm.

but anyway, yeah...mod the damn thing already

it doesn't seem to be the same package type, so it might prove to be somewhat complicated installing it.

and these cards have fragile line-in circuits, so if your card goes bad in a few months...you'll be SOL

you'd be better off putting these $25 in some Audio-GD discrete op-amps IMHO.

 

[thoppa]

Hi,

It's easy to do - really easy. There's in, out and supply, and the current XO has in and out. The hard bit is mounting it well. I have a hot glue gun....

... joke....

I think the Bursons etc look great, but they aren't 12V optimised it seems and the other major problem for me is I don't have the space. AD8620BR are 12V optimised, awesome performance and already quite pricey. So I doubt I'll bother with discrete op amps, although they do look very interesting. Maybe one day...

50ppm sounds optimistic - I'd say 100 at least - but there's no easy way to measure..... If you check catalogues for this kind of thing, 50ppm is a good spec for that kind of crystal - highly unlikely that Asus would buy a good crystal and then also get a re-clock chip too. It's much more likely they got a cheap XO and the money they saved on the PCIe bridge chip, was spent on the CS2000, hence the similar pricing.

It's just a guess, but based on experience, I'd say the ST is getting to about 10ppm. That's very very good. Off-the-shelf high-end CD transports are comparable. 0.5 x10 = 5, 5 x10 = 50. If you heard a difference between ST and STX, and who wouldn't, then there should be something similar to be heard with a better clock on the ST. I read the datasheet and I don't think the CS2000 can make a bad clock into an excellent one. Better yes, wonderful, well, at the moment, I don't think so. I have a Tent labs XO to compare it to. Anyway, this is the point; to find out. At this stage I think there will be a difference, so I'll try. I think Gwordofspace's STX probably has noticeably lower jitter than the ST. Lucky dude !

I'm really looking at optimising what's there. Hence the first step is the decoupling caps for the op amp and headphone amp circuits. The decoupling and feedback circuit caps closest to the op amps make the most difference, just as rolling op amps makes a big difference. If you've heard the difference between Black Gate FK and ordinary Rubycons then this isn't news to you. FKs might sound too over-detailed/concert hall-ish so that's why I chose Silmic II. Plus FKs are out of production and becoming scarce, so soon they will just be a legend.

Man , I can't wait for the parts in the post. Come on Mr Postie !

 

[leeperry]

well Gworld's clock is not 1ppm AFAIK, and it's also got a conditioning IC...sure a 1ppm clock on the ST wouldn't hurt, keep us posted

one major bottleneck seems to be the op-amps anyway....any IC will lack in some department.

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, I've had both the STX and ST...and I've switched them several times. the outcome was that the stereo image was far more accurate/natural/cleaner on the ST, the STX sounded muddy and messy in comparison. I know there's always something better out there! the reason why some ppl buy $3K amps...but quite frankly I don't think you would hear an improvement w/ a more accurate clock, as the CS2k IC job is exactly that....increasing the clock accuracy. and GWorld believes that the stock clock is around 50ppm, his new Audio-GD clock 5ppm....and that there's no audible difference between 1ppm and 5ppm. but anyway, yeah...mod the damn thing already it doesn't seem to be the same package type, so it might prove to be somewhat complicated installing it. and these cards have fragile line-in circuits, so if your card goes bad in a few months...you'll be SOL you'd be better off putting these $25 in some Audio-GD discrete op-amps IMHO.

I already upgraded the clock so you have pictures of it. Upgrade is really simple just go to page 2-3 on this forum and look at.
I said the stock crystal has 50-100pp!!!

 

[GWorlDofSPACE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoppa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi, It's easy to do - really easy. There's in, out and supply, and the current XO has in and out. The hard bit is mounting it well. I have a hot glue gun.... ... joke.... I think the Bursons etc look great, but they aren't 12V optimised it seems and the other major problem for me is I don't have the space. AD8620BR are 12V optimised, awesome performance and already quite pricey. So I doubt I'll bother with discrete op amps, although they do look very interesting. Maybe one day... 50ppm sounds optimistic - I'd say 100 at least - but there's no easy way to measure..... If you check catalogues for this kind of thing, 50ppm is a good spec for that kind of crystal - highly unlikely that Asus would buy a good crystal and then also get a re-clock chip too. It's much more likely they got a cheap XO and the money they saved on the PCIe bridge chip, was spent on the CS2000, hence the similar pricing. It's just a guess, but based on experience, I'd say the ST is getting to about 10ppm. That's very very good. Off-the-shelf high-end CD transports are comparable. 0.5 x10 = 5, 5 x10 = 50. If you heard a difference between ST and STX, and who wouldn't, then there should be something similar to be heard with a better clock on the ST. I read the datasheet and I don't think the CS2000 can make a bad clock into an excellent one. Better yes, wonderful, well, at the moment, I don't think so. I have a Tent labs XO to compare it to. Anyway, this is the point; to find out. At this stage I think there will be a difference, so I'll try. I think Gwordofspace's STX probably has noticeably lower jitter than the ST. Lucky dude ! I'm really looking at optimising what's there. Hence the first step is the decoupling caps for the op amp and headphone amp circuits. The decoupling and feedback circuit caps closest to the op amps make the most difference, just as rolling op amps makes a big difference. If you've heard the difference between Black Gate FK and ordinary Rubycons then this isn't news to you. FKs might sound too over-detailed/concert hall-ish so that's why I chose Silmic II. Plus FKs are out of production and becoming scarce, so soon they will just be a legend. Man , I can't wait for the parts in the post. Come on Mr Postie !

Its wonderful to see guys like you playing whit the card.
Please keep posting your work.

I am specially looking forward to see your caps upgrade.

Good work!!!

 

[thoppa]

haha...and I'm looking forward to hearing them !

BTW, the Sanyo Oscons are gonna go too. They are good caps but I don't want them on the power input affecting the whole board. So I have these from another project that'll drop right in (the leads should just be long enough) :

Panasonic FC - very good decoupling/smoothing caps for audio. Not the best but very good. Just like the Essence really...hehe