[Pitts Pilot]

Edit:
That olor dude covered it more tactfully than I.

 

[Proglover]

Although differences between amps that can drive specific headphones are small, I have to agree with the term 'not even close'. E7 is a DAC, it's amp is the same as E5. Trying to drive a HD6X0 with that is madness.
 
It's absolutely not necessary for everyone to spend the ridiculous amounts of money that some do, on amps, for example E9 is capable to at least drive them and doesn't cost much. But you do need something that can drive it, and E5/E7 simply can't.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

Although differences between amps that can drive specific headphones are small, I have to agree with the term 'not even close'. E7 is a DAC, it's amp is the same as E5. Trying to drive a HD6X0 with that is madness.
 
It's absolutely not necessary for everyone to spend the ridiculous amounts of money that some do, on amps, for example E9 is capable to at least drive them and doesn't cost much. But you do need something that can drive it, and E5/E7 simply can't.

 
Wrong.
 
Trouble with transients and slightly uncontrolled bass, perhaps.  But totally and utterly incapable of driving it?  Insane.
 
The E5/E7 put out a similar voltage swing to the uDAC, which I have and is definitely more than capable of serving as a decent first DAC/amp for the HD 600.
 
Nor is it a waste.  It still sounds better than any lesser headphones with the same DAC/amp.
 
There's room for improvement, but despite the limitations in voltage the differences are still subtle when compared with any amp I've tried or owned which is more than capable of driving the HD 600 to its potential (Beyerdynamic A1, Schiit Asgard, iBasso PB1).

 

[Proglover]

sigh...
 
similar voltage swing or not, I have/had and heard HD580/600/650, E5, E7 and E9 and compared. Don't have the uDAC, but we're talking about the E7 here, not about the uDAC.
 
We're running circles on the same arguments in this discussion. Sorry I contributed to the discussion again, which is almost as old as this forum is.
 
No offence offcourse, everyone opinion respected, but I'm unsubscribing.

 

[lejaz]

Never heard the E7 but I had a similar experience with the emu 0404 amp. The DAC section is highly regarded but the amp is generally considered to be FAR from a good one. It puts out 25mW of power and lots of folks claim that's inadequate to drive high impedance phones. My 240DF which is 600 ohms sounds very good with that amp....with power to spare. It sounds even better out of the mkV, but only by a small margin.
 
Quote:

 
Wrong.
 
Trouble with transients and slightly uncontrolled bass, perhaps.  But totally and utterly incapable of driving it?  Insane.
 
The E5/E7 put out a similar voltage swing to the uDAC, which I have and is definitely more than capable of serving as a decent first DAC/amp for the HD 600.
 
Nor is it a waste.  It still sounds better than any lesser headphones with the same DAC/amp.
 
There's room for improvement, but despite the limitations in voltage the differences are still subtle when compared with any amp I've tried or owned which is more than capable of driving the HD 600 to its potential (Beyerdynamic A1, Schiit Asgard, iBasso PB1).

 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

 
Wrong.
 
Trouble with transients and slightly uncontrolled bass, perhaps.  But totally and utterly incapable of driving it?  Insane.
 
The E5/E7 put out a similar voltage swing to the uDAC, which I have and is definitely more than capable of serving as a decent first DAC/amp for the HD 600.
 
Nor is it a waste.  It still sounds better than any lesser headphones with the same DAC/amp.
 
There's room for improvement, but despite the limitations in voltage the differences are still subtle when compared with any amp I've tried or owned which is more than capable of driving the HD 600 to its potential (Beyerdynamic A1, Schiit Asgard, iBasso PB1).

You're taking what Proglover stated too literally and arguing just for the sake of it. The guy has all the components being discussed and is in a position to impart some sound advice. The OP expressed his disappointment in the HD600 paring with the E7 vs the hp out of his Macbook. Considering what the E7 is and based on my own experience with it (with the M50, MS-1i and HD650), that disappointment comes as no surprise.
 
How is the view that the OP may be better served by a dedicated amp (and a budget amp at that) debatable, given what's expressed in the first post and what you yourself have admitted in there being room for improvement?

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

You're taking what Proglover stated too literally and arguing just for the sake of it. The guy has all the components being discussed and is in a position to impart some sound advice. The OP expressed his disappointment in the HD600 paring with the E7 vs the hp out of his Macbook. Considering what the E7 is and based on my own experience with it (with the M50, MS-1i and HD650), that disappointment comes as no surprise.
 
How is the view that the OP may be better served by a dedicated amp (and a budget amp at that) debatable, given what's expressed in the first post and what you yourself have admitted in there being room for improvement?

No, he stated emphatically and unequivocally that the E7 cannot drive the HD 600.  No qualifications, just "can't".
 
I went about to correct that mistaken opinion.  And despite what he says about the uDAC and E7 being different, the voltage swing is what matters here.  We're not running into current problems.
 
But in no way do I not recommend using something better.  But I am arguing that the E7 is a start... Not the end, but a start if you are on a budget (I got the uDAC for the RCA line-out).  The E9 is the perfect desktop amp to go with it.  And I'd recommend trying it to the OP. 

 

[VuongPham117]

Hello guys, I really appreciate your thoughts and comments on this subject.
 
As an owner of both the HD-600's and the E7, I am actually not quite sure what people mean sometimes by "enough power to drive the cans".
 
In the appropriate setting, at the appropriate time, the E7 and even my Macbook and power up my HD-600's to very loud levels of listening (beyond comfort). So in regards to volume, I would say the E7 is decent at driving the volume so that it's loud. Is this then an amp problem or a headphone preference problem?

 

[olor1n]

There is more to amplification than added volume. But perhaps it's a heaphone preference thing. Try some of the suggestions here or look at other cans. If there's one thing to take away from this thread it's that you need to formulate things for yourself. Head-Fi is a cesspool and no one's word should be taken as gospel.

 

[VuongPham117]

Quote:

There is more to amplification than added volume. But perhaps it's a heaphone preference thing. Try some of the suggestions here or look at other cans. If there's one thing to take away from this thread it's that you need to formulate things for yourself. Head-Fi is a cesspool and no one's word should be taken as gospel.

The E7's actually do make things more neutral and overall a tad bit more "sharp" and cleaner sounding. However, I don't see the big enough difference as some people claims.
 
 

 

[olor1n]

That's the E7's dac you're hearing against your Macbook's onboard sound. The E7's amp section has little bearing on the sound quality in this instance compared to the Macbook's headphone out. Most E7 owners would agree it's a much better dac than an amp.

 

[Proglover]

Quote:

No, he stated emphatically and unequivocally that the E7 cannot drive the HD 600.  No qualifications, just "can't".
 
I went about to correct that mistaken opinion.  And despite what he says about the uDAC and E7 being different, the voltage swing is what matters here.  We're not running into current problems.
 
But in no way do I not recommend using something better.  But I am arguing that the E7 is a start... Not the end, but a start if you are on a budget (I got the uDAC for the RCA line-out).  The E9 is the perfect desktop amp to go with it.  And I'd recommend trying it to the OP. 

Ok, I'll bite

 
I did state E7 simply can't drive a HD6X0, maybe I'm taken too literally, or I've stated it wrong here, what I exactly mean:
 
- on my opinion E7 is beneath the personal threshold I have to call something (a bit properly)driven. It can give volume to the Senns, but to my ears the dynamics and musicality are taken away from what is possible with the cans. So it can be driven in that sense it give the power to let hear some music at normal levels, but I'm personally finding it not good enough to state 'X can drive Y' (and somebody else maybe finds that my amps are not good enough to (properly) drive the Senns (because he has a higher threshold to call something properly driven)
- E7 with the Senns will probably sounds better then a lot of cheaper other cans
- E9 with the cans doesn't make them fully shine, but it's enough to get it over my personal threshold to call it properly driven. Not to reach last %'s of it's potential, but it begins to do it decently.
 
About E7 as a DAC by the way, it's warmish, not extremely neutral. My Neco's are more neutral, I've been told by an E7 + uDac owner, that the uDAC is also more neutral then E7.
 
I guess it's all about our own preferences and the money we're willing to spend. At the end of the day, it's nice to discuss it all, but it doesn't really matter. What's important is that we can enjoy ourselves, with the stuff we can/want afford.
 

 

[Mdraluck23]

When I had my E7, it could give the HD600's volume but not a clean and powerful sound like a real powerful amp. Even my D6 sounds incredibly better.

 

[xaval]

For fun i just plugged my HD600 to the headphone out of the on board sound card of one my computers... it powers it quite loud. It doesn't sound as good as out of any of my amps. I mean, it's a huge difference. Moving on...
 

 

[Pitts Pilot]

 
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I inadvertently started this all by saying the E7 was "not even close" to getting the 650 to it's potential.  Someone else called that "madness."  (I was stressed all day, as I walked around questioning my own sanity.)  When I got home I took a listen.  The E7 sounds "fine" with the 650s.  But on some pieces that are recorded at relatively low volume (James Newton Howard - Sheffield Labs, for instance) the volume is maxed and (in my purely subjective, unscientific scale of perceived volume[P.S.U.S.P.V]) I'm only 65-70% of the volume that I might occasionally choose to listen to that passage.  It was "moderately loud."  If you're the kind of guy that doesn't crank it for the beginning of Money for Nothing, that may be "close enough."  Occasionally, "cranking it" is important to me so for me the E7 is "not even close."  If the E9 was a 10 (which it isn't to me,) I'd have to subjectively rank the E7 no higher than a 7 because it literally cannot achieve a sufficient volume level to satisfy me.  7 out of 10 isn't failing, but in my opinion it isn't "close to potential" either.  Now this was all based strictly my perception of volume without even considering sound quality.  I'm not trying to suggest that I can hear subtle differences in amps.  I just didn't want the OP to think this is the best his 650s are ever going to sound so he might as well start looking for new HPs.    (He even said he liked the sound signature.)  He has only had them 150 hours.
 
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