[MrSpenkelink]

Quote:

No, the rest isn't just "window dressing." Build quality and aesthetics are not the same thing. The former speaks to how solidly the headphones are constructed, and consequently how durable they are. Grado is well known for using glue in the construction of the headphones, for example. That's not an aesthetic problem, that's a problem of durability.

 

Agreed MuppetFace, but there's nothing sub-standard about using glues to permanently bond materials together. However, Grado's quality control and finishing is quite another matter and definitely not its strong suit. 
 
The Ultrasone Edition 10 is obviously a luxury headphone that is beautifully crafted, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is more durable than the Grado PS1000. I associate refinement rather than durability with luxury items. They are by nature fine, rather than robust. Ultrasone has been around since the 1990's and Grado since I don't know when, but the utilitarian design of its headphones is surprisingly durable, and has stood the test of time for many an owner. 
 
Is the structural integrity of Ultrasone Edition 8 LE superior to the Ultrasone Edition 8? Surely its cachet lies in its exclusivity and additional luxury touches rather than its build quality. They are technically the same headphone are they not? 
 
Might I add that the Ultrasone Edition 10 costs almost $1300 more than the PS1000, so one should reasonably expect some luxurious points of difference from a headphone costing almost $3000. But it is is a headphone, and at that price its audio performance should more appropriately be compared to the Stax Omega Mark 2.
 
I don't have a prejudice against the purchase of luxury items including headphones, but it's the attempts to justify such indulgences on pragmatic grounds that I find both unconvincing and unnecessary.
 
Post edited for structural integrity. 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

^ Agreed muppetface, but is the structural integrity of Ultrasone Edition 8 LE superior to the Ultrasone Edition 8? Surely its cachet lies in its exclusivity and additional luxury touches rather than its build quality. They are technically the same headphone are they not? 
 
The Ultrasone Edition 10 is obviously a luxury headphone that is beautifully crafted, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is more durable than the Grado PS1000. I associate refinement rather than durability with luxury items. They are by nature, fine. Ultrasone has been around since the 1990's and Grado since I don't know when, but the utilitarian design of its headphones is surprisingly durable, and has stood the test of time for many an owner. There's nothing sub-standard about using glues to permanently bond materials together. However, Grado's quality control and finishing is quite another matter and definitely not its strong suit.
 
Might I add that the Ultrasone Edition 10 costs almost $1300 more than the PS1000, so one should reasonably expect some luxurious points of difference from a headphone costing almost $3000. But it is a headphone and at that price, it's audio performance should more appropriately be compared to the Stax Omega Mark 2. 
 

When I hold my Ed8's in my hands, I know that I've paid a lot for build and not simply sound.  This was a confirmation for me, actually.  I assumed this to be the case when I decided to get them.
 
I agree that the Ed8 LE are sonically and with regard to build, the same as the Ed8's.  The LE version uses different leather finish and comes with a nice case.  My Ed8's come in a pull-string leather bag.
 
There's nothing wrong, IMO, with going for the LE's if you're a collector and can afford them.
 
However, I'm with you with regard to your sentiments concerning the PS1000's relative to other cans.  What gives the Grado's bad press is the quality control.  While I'm willing to bet that a high quality PS1000 would last as long or even longer than an Ed10, I do dislike the situation of having to say a word of prayer before making the PS1000 purchase, asking that they sound as they should when you get them, and that they don't come apart in some way because someone messed up when gluing them together or whatever it is that they do to keep it together.  Grado seems to have build up some notoriety where that's concerned and I recall reading a thread that addressed quality control with regard to the PS1000's.  

 

[Skylab]

 
Quote:

Thanks for that comment Skylab.  If I were to get the Ed10's, it would be for the very same reasons, though I question the reality of the notion of 'incremental improvement'.  I've been doing so with myself.  I've decided that it's a mistake to think that I would personally be happy with one headphone.  Not with my personal makeup.  I just love change and one change I appreciate is a change in presentation/sound.  A new can goes a long way in this direction and way too often, I've confused change with improvement.
 
What's the real nature of this 'incremental improvement' that we all seek when we reach the sonic level's of sound reproduction that these cans offer?  They are absolutely stunning and yet we're not happy.  Curious.... ain't it?
 
.... and after all this, 6 months later, I'll have an Ed10 on my head.  It's much better fun when you've come to terms with why they're sitting there with one such term being that you don't have to justify it to anyone in any way.
 
I'll be looking out for your impressions since your tastes are now quite clear to me and though I don't share them in some significant ways, they've assisted me with choosing what it is I'd be looking for before actually paying $2700 for cans.  It's not that I'd have to break a bank or save to make the purchase, but gosh..... 2yrs ago, I thought the HD650's were too expensive for a headphone and what they would offer me in life.  
 
I think I had better run..... 

I'm absolutely with you on not wanting to live with just one headphone - that's not in the cards for me either, clearly

 
You know it's funny, but with Speakers, I did finally get to the point where I was no longer looking for incremental improvements.  I went through a half-dozen or so pairs of speakers in about 10 years before I got my B&W N800's.  Since that time, I have never once wanted to consider another speaker.  Almost 10 years later, they still thrill me regularly.
 
I am close to that feeling with the LCD-2.  They are almost there.  I am regularly thrilled by them.  They are almost the ideal sonic signature for me.  But I still find myself wishing they were more comfortable to wear.  They're not badly uncomfortable, but when I put on other headphones I own, I am reminded that there are MUCH more comfortable headphones than the LCD-2.
 
I also really love the Edition 8.  I almost always enjoy listening to them.  And they are supremely comfortable.  So maybe...just maybe...

 

[MrSpenkelink]

Quote:

I will say this - for me, the only "rational" thing about my having decided to buy the Edition 10 is that I can afford to do it without creating a financial hardship for myself.  Beyond that, there is nothing rational about it.
 
But still, I am very much looking forward to it now.  I am hoping that perhaps the Edition 10 will have some small hope of being the current state of the art of headphone reproduction.  While I have gotten much closer over the last year to what I really want in a headphone, from the LCD-2 and Beyer T1, there is still room for some incremental improvement, as good as those two headphones are.
 

Now that's what I wanted to see. I hope you enjoy your luxurious new acquisition. 

 

[coolcat]

SkyLab the reason I didn't order the ED10 because I compared them directly to the T1.
The setup was iMac+Amara+StageDac+Concerto.
The ED10 beat the T1 easily. They best T1 from top to bottom,crytral clear high,so sweet mid and the absolutely great Bass (the senior Head-fier here has stated that it is the best bass he's ever heard from the dynamic headphones ,note that we have no experiences with the LCD2 and the King of dynamic headphones from sony).
 Anyway IMO they are not worth the upgrade, unless you can buy them without any financial problem like you said. I still enjoyed the music through my T1. The ED10 are fun phones. Theirs sound signature is similar to the T1 more than the HD800,ED8, or ED9.
I think the ED10 will even better after many hundred hours.
If the ED10, I auditioned yesterday, were  already burnt in,I really don't know if I will change my mind and decided to order them. 
 
p.s. I have read somewhere that one has to get used to the sound of  S-Logic,before he can enjoy the ED10.IMO This statement is true for the ED8 (at least I and my friend have this experience),but not  for the ED10.They are the headphones to fall in love with. I wish Ultrasone will release the "normal" edition,which costs around 2000$. 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

p.s. I have read somewhere that one has to get used to the sound of  S-Logic,if he wants to enjoy the ED10.IMO This statement is true for the ED8 (at least I and my friend have this experience),but not  for the ED10.They are the headphones to fall in love with. I wish Ultrasone will release the "normal" edition,which costs around 2000$. 

$2000 is within my threshold and only just.
 
I'd take the ed10's without the fancy stand and a less luxurious case.  

 

[Dynamic74]

I have just past the 200 hours marks on my Edition 10(E10). I am glad that at this point of time, the sound of the E10 can be described as :
 
Extremely detailed mid range 
 
The representation of instruments and vocals of the E10 are quite close to the actual instruments I hear at live classical and rock concerts. Vocals are excellent. You can easily hear the husky voice of Karen Carpenter, the high male tenor voice of Michael Jackson or the gravelly voice of Rod Steward. On better recordings, you can pick up the throat inflections of some singers. As mentioned in my earlier impressions, instruments such as guitars and violins sounded especially life-like. The E10 also performs well in instrumental and unplugged music.
 
Fast Speed and Dynamic
 
The E10 doesn't get congested when playing high speed music. All instruments are undistorted and clear. It seems to able handle speed better than the Edition 9s(E9). The dynamics of the E10 are very good too.
 
Seductive Bass
 
The bass can be comparable to the E9 but never overbearing or boomy. It is tight and have a very low extension. The bass never intrudes into the mids, therefore it remains clear, musical and transparent. I attend at least one live performance a month. The drums on rock albums as represented by the E10s are quite similar to the one I heard at a rock concert I attended last week except that you cannot feel the low rumble caused by the rock concert sound system. The E10 is definitely not a bass light headphone.
 
Clear and forward treble
 
The treble is sparkling and clear, thus resulting in good instrument separation. I think the harp music sounds excellent, better than any other headphone I heard before. 
 
Wide and Deep Soundstage
 
The soundstage is expanding since the 60th hour of burn in. At present, it is wide and deep. Better than the E9 but maybe not as wide as a fully burnt-in AKG K701 yet. Since I am using the Meier stageDac, turning on the cross feed will result in a smaller but more unified soundstage. If I turn the cross feed off, the soundstage appears wider but it is not so unified and towards my left and right side.
 
Multi-layered Sound
 
The sound appears more 3D. Not 3D in the sense of the sound coming from all directions but 3D in the sense that the sound is more multi-layered and textured. For example, during the strumming of guitar, you can hear the guitar sound followed by the vibration of strings. You can also clearly detect the decay of a number of brass and woodwind instruments.
 
Sibilance
 
I have reported in my previous impressions that the sibilance is gone, but after further testing, I found that when played at high volume, certain recordings are still showing sibilance. Although at lower volumes, these are largely absent. I think the higher mids to lower treble needed more refinement. I will continue the burn-in for another 100 hours and hopefully this area can improve.
 
Conclusion
 
Looking at this thread, there are a lot of debate whether the E10 is worth its price. I have to admit that I bought the E10 on impulse without even trying the headphones out even though there is a demo set at the store. The transaction took less than 1/2 hour. I brought E10 home not knowing what it will turn out to be. I am glad that is turned out to be better than my E9. How much better you may ask? Not much better. The E10 at this point has about 5% to 10% more refinement than the E9. Is it reasonable to pay about double the price of the E9 for the 10% improvement in performance?
 
I suppose the benchmark is yourself. If you set the benchmark to be $1000 so be it. Get the best headphone you can get for $1000 and let no one else influence you otherwise. Each of us have different benchmarks and comparing benchmarks make nobody happy.
 
I suppose each one of us have their own reasons to take up this hobby. As long as your goals are met, I supposed you have achieved your aim. E10 has met most of my goals other than the small issue I mentioned above. I think those who have fine headphones such as the E8, HD 800, T1, or LCD2 may consider this point before upgrading. I am a firm believer that there is no perfect headphone.
 
Another point to reflect is that I believe the headphone will grow together with you. Spending time burning in your headphone and hearing it change in characteristics every hour is to me very interesting. For better or worse, the headphone will mature into something you can understand better. If it turns out good, it is keeper. If not, then move on to another. I think we concentrate too much on the final result but fail to enjoy the process. Enjoy your music, you will be happier.
 
Welcome Rob on board on the Edition 10 Club! I am glad that the Thais have got their Edition 10 and I sincerely hope that those in US will receive their E10 soon. Looking forward to Warp08 to come up with a shootout between the Sony R10 and Ultrasone Edition 10. Enjoy reading and a pleasant day ahead!

 

[MuppetFace]

 
Quote:

Touchy, touchy.  My comment came from two things: MrSpenkelink's comments, as well as the comments made about other cans here and on Head-Fi in general.  It seems prudent to consider these points while in anticipation of the Ed10's.  My comments have nothing to do with judging a particular behaviour, since I'm not excluding myself, but everything to do with seeing and admitting, rather than offer convoluted, inconsistent, technical reasoning that has an attentive reader who follows these threads over months and years saying, 'but didn't they just feel that ....so and so..'  or 'how can one can be said to sound so much different from another and yet there's claim of neutral and real sounding ascribed to both and amazingly, quite often by the same person.'  It's either that they sound similar and hence they both sound natural/real, or they both sound very different and one of them is natural while the other coloured.   
 

It was a simple misunderstanding of "here" that inspired my comments, taken to mean this thread and the reviews within rather than head-fi in general. While obviously no longer directed at your comment, I feel my points are still generally applicable unfortunately. 
 
 
Quote:

 Agreed MuppetFace, but is the structural integrity of Ultrasone Edition 8 LE superior to the Ultrasone Edition 8? Surely its cachet lies in its exclusivity and additional luxury touches rather than its build quality. They are technically the same headphone are they not? 
 
The Ultrasone Edition 10 is obviously a luxury headphone that is beautifully crafted, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is more durable than the Grado PS1000. I associate refinement rather than durability with luxury items. They are by nature, fine. Ultrasone has been around since the 1990's and Grado since I don't know when, but the utilitarian design of its headphones is surprisingly durable, and has stood the test of time for many an owner. There's nothing sub-standard about using glues to permanently bond materials together. However, Grado's quality control and finishing is quite another matter and definitely not its strong suit.
 
Might I add that the Ultrasone Edition 10 costs almost $1300 more than the PS1000, so one should reasonably expect some luxurious points of difference from a headphone costing almost $3000. But it is a headphone and at that price, its audio performance should more appropriately be compared to the Stax Omega Mark 2. 
 
 
 

My comments were made regarding the Edition 8 in general, of which the "Limited" version is merely one iteration. I in no way implied that the Edition 8 Limited was in any way more structurally sound than the Ruthenium version. Of course the added $500 is for the luxury add-ons. No one is claiming any different. That in no way negates my point that the Edition 8, in general, is a much sturdier and well-contructed headphone than the Grado PS1000. Just holding both of them in one's hands, it's patently obvious in my opinion.
 
As for the Edition 10, no, it's being a luxury item doesn't necessarily mean it's well crafted. But by the same token, it doesn't necessarily mean it's NOT well crafted. Just because you associate one thing with luxury items over another doesn't mean they can't be both. Why can't it be both "fine" and "durable"? Mutual exclusivity isn't necessary here.
 
As for the PS1000, I have not used it for any sufficient length of time to pass judgement on it's durability beyond what my initial impressions for holding it were. My guess is you haven't either, so we're both just speculating at this point when it comes to whether it stands the test of time. What I can be sure about is that the materials used, save for the metal material on the outer ear cups, are materials used in just about every other pair of Grados. 
 
There are plenty of threads here on head-fi were people question the build quality of Grado. Whether their concerns are substantiated or not is something best left to another thread. The point is, the QUESTION of durability is one that permeates the entire Grado line because the build quality--- whether it's as bad as I suspect or not--- is the same throughout the entire line. With Ultrasone, on the other hand, there is a clear jump in build quality from their Proline series to the Edition series.

 

[MuppetFace]

 
Quote:

Wide and Deep Soundstage
 
The soundstage is expanding since the 60th hour of burn in. 

Oh, thank goodness! 

 

[donthuang]

Japanese site "Sonove" got ED10's some test. Interesting.
 
http://sonove.angry.jp/ultrasone_edition10.html
 
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=ed&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsonove.angry.jp%2Fultrasone_edition10.html

 

[coolcat]

 
Quote:

 
 
Another point to reflect is that I believe the headphone will grow together with you. Spending time burning in your headphone and hearing it change in characteristics every hour is to me very interesting. For better or worse, the headphone will mature into something you can understand better. If it turns out good, it is keeper. If not, then move on to another. I think we concentrate too much on the final result but fail to enjoy the process. Enjoy your music, you will be happier.
 

agree with you especially The ED8 ,DX1000 (keeper) and the GS1000(gone)
 

 

[business_jj]

Quote:

 
Welcome Rob on board on the Edition 10 Club! I am glad that the Thais have got their Edition 10 and I sincerely hope that those in US will receive their E10 soon. Looking forward to Warp08 to come up with a shootout between the Sony R10 and Ultrasone Edition 10. Enjoy reading and a pleasant day ahead!

 
Thank you Dynamic74 about your impressions after 200 hour of burn-in. I can't wait mine to pass 300 hrs. I really want to know how shine it can be after fully burnt-in.
 
Warp08, I'm also looking forward to see the big comparison between this can and your R10, that will be very interesting !!!
 
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Alright, thread reopened.

I just spent 30 minutes going over the past few pages. I left in some marginal stuff, because there was legitimate discussion in them.

However, no more whiny personal slapfests.

If you notice that one of your posts is missing, consider yourself warned. If the fighting continues, vacations will be handed out.

 

[Trysaeder]

Why do I ALWAYS miss these nerd fights?

 

[matthewh133]

Quote:

Why do I ALWAYS miss these nerd fights?

Consider it for the best