[arnaud]

Originally posted here ( http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/520391/tokyo-fall-2010-headphone-festival#post_7025122 ), pasted here FYI:
 
 
I went today to the fall headphone festival organized by Fujiya Avic in Tokyo. I only wanted to check out Stax's new prototype and Ultrasone's Edition 10.
 
First, I have to say I was impressed by the large number of vendors, a LOT of iem makers, Japan / Tokyo is obviously a lucrative market with everybody commuting daily on the train.
 
Note that I don't have much listening impressions because one literally only has seconds to sample the gear until the seat must be vacated for somebody else… Yet, one can at least get a very rough idea of the tonality of a headphone, probably not much more so notes below are only worth so much, you are warned …
 
I will start with Ultrasone Edition 10:
 
The same people from Ultrasone who did the launch in Japan were present today. I am impressed by their dedication to the Japan market. From a brief chat together, it looks like this is a very important market for them. They're very friendly people, I got a picture taken listening to the Edition 10, I guess the bewildered look of my baby while I was wearing the headphone was not common sight

.
 
I thought it would be more of a departure from the house sound but clearly you know you're listening to an Ultrasone can the second you start playing music. The s-logic does definitely sound nothing like other headphones.
 
Another thing I noticed is that the Edition 10 are very picky about the position of the earcup, just like other Edition headphones. For instance, I was at first not wowed by the tightness of the bass / smoothness of the highs. But, once I reseated the headphones slightly, the bass very much tightened up (or maybe mid bass hump disappeared) and the headphone lost the bit of shrillness it had at first. 
 
The amplifier was Chord's chordate and 9AM was louder than I can tolerate so either they're very sensitive cans or the amplifier has loads of gain. Source was from Chord too, I am not familiar with this gear so not sure how well a pairing it makes with the Edition 10.
 
Overall, my quick impression of the headphone is that of a more tonally accurate version of Edition 9 without feeling of listening to a closed headphone (of course…). They are definitely more neutral sounding than Edition 9. Did not have time to make any judgement on the soundstage though. Certainly did not feel "narrow" like the Edition 9. Mind you, I really like the Edition 9 presentation though. To me, a narrow but deep / layered soundstage is much more natural than overly wide one.
 
For me, on such short listen, I will say that I am not ready to jump for the Edition 10. Maybe I would if I was in the mind of upgrading my Edition 9. But, I have not listened to my Edition 9 for a while and, as you may know, it does take some time to get used to s-logic (and / or Ultrasone's sound signature). So, coming from Stax listening, I did not have sufficient time with the Edition 10 to get accustomed to its sound. As such, I think such short listening auditions are rather a disservice for Ultrasone because their headphones take time getting used to.
 
To conclude, I think these Edition 10 again are not going to be for everybody. In particular, those who have not been wowed by s-logic sound before are probably not going to change their mind with Edition 10. I can rather imagine current owners upgrading their collection… So, current fans, don't wait until this limited edition sells over!

 

[Shahrose]

 
Quote:

Crap.  I caved.

lol

 
Eager to hear your impressions.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

It's a shame about the PS1000s lack of a following....

 
There's a reason for that....not a whole lot of people actually like them at that price. Plain and simple...if they did, they'd have a following to note and take notice of. Many Grado fans (like myself) still think the best representation of the "classic Grado house sound" is still the RS1i (that's currently in production).
 
The PS1000s did "fix" many of the issues I had with the GS1000, but no doubt that I much prefer the T1s, HD800s, and LCD-2s to the PS1000s (and all are cheaper). Fidelity and "faithfulness" to the recording is very important in hifi sound (especially for $1000+ headphones) and the PS1000s are John Grado's impression of the recording....not the actual intended impressions by the artists.
 
But I can certainly understand how some prefer a more lively presentation with tuned up mid-bass and treble (I did enjoy the D7000s both times I owned them very much) and I'm now enamoured with their sound signature.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Crap.  I caved.

I knew you would!
 
Congrats....looking forward to your impressions Rob!

 

[grokit]

 
Quote:

Crap.  I caved.

In the voice of Nelson Muntz: Ha ha!

 

[MrSpenkelink]

Quote:

 
There's a reason for that....not a whole lot of people actually like them at that price. Plain and simple...if they did, they'd have a following to note and take notice of. Many Grado fans (like myself) still think the best representation of the "classic Grado house sound" is still the RS1i (that's currently in production).
 
The PS1000s did "fix" many of the issues I had with the GS1000, but no doubt that I much prefer the T1s, HD800s, and LCD-2s to the PS1000s (and all are cheaper). Fidelity and "faithfulness" to the recording is very important in hifi sound (especially for $1000+ headphones) and the PS1000s are John Grado's impression of the recording....not the actual intended impressions by the artists.
 
But I can certainly understand how some prefer a more lively presentation with tuned up mid-bass and treble (I did enjoy the D7000s both times I owned them very much) and I'm now enamoured with their sound signature.

Given that the Ultrasone Edition 8 Limited Edition shares a similar price point with the Grado PS1000 (both headphones retail for around $1700 USD) do you think that it reproduces recorded music more accurately? Doesn't it exhibit the Ultrasone house sound, which favours fun over neutrality?
 
Post edited to correct a pricing error.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Given that the Ultrasone Edition 8 Limited Edition shares a similar price point with the Grado PS1000 (the former retails for around $1500 and the latter $1700) do you think that it reproduces recorded music more accurately? Doesn't it exhibit the Ultrasone house sound, which favours fun over neutrality?

 
I can't comment on the sound of the PS1000, but I've seen one in person and held one.
 
Keep in mind that the Edition 8 has some of the finest build quality of any headphone in current production. The PS1000 build quality on the other hand is similar enough to their $80 headphones that it's laughable.

 

[MrSpenkelink]

^ Yes, there's clearly a significant difference in design aesthetics and build quality, but in the end these are high-end transducers costing well over a thousand dollars. I'm wondering whether the Edition 8 LE succeeds where the PS1000 failed in meeting MacedonianHero's expectation that a headphone in this price range should reproduce music faithfully.

 

[rgs9200m]

I apologize in advance for getting off-topic here with the PS1000s, but just in response to some of the above comments, I subjective feel little weight diff. from my HD800s, if any. It is not bothersome at all.
And the highs are not exaggerated to me, even with solid state, and the highs are far less tipped up than my old RS1s could be. I think the HD800s have stronger highs.
And the bass is really nice and not boomy or pounding, just a nice warm and feel-good bass. The headband is not padded enough though, and I put a thin strip of foam under it with tape
(but my hair is thinning on top, and other phones do this to me also, like AKGs).

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

^ Yes, there's clearly a significant difference in design aesthetics and build quality, but in the end these are high-end transducers costing well over a thousand dollars. I'm wondering whether the Edition 8 LE succeeds where the PS1000 failed in meeting MacedonianHero's expectation that a headphone in this price range should reproduce music faithfully.

I find the Ed 8 LE more balanced (and more faithful to the recording) than the PS1000, but both are NOT what I consider neutral. My HD800/T1/LCD-2s are much better in that regard. The reason the Ed. 8 satisfies me for two reasons:
 
1.) I own three balanced/neutral headphones and enjoy a fun headphone (with subwoofer like bass...the PS1000's bass is far from subwoofer like) from time to time.
2.) I need a closed headphone that is great at noise isolation and does not leak sound, thus the Ed. 8s. Sadly that was the one weakness with my (now sold) D7000s.
 
Cheers

 

[MrSpenkelink]

^ So are you saying that it's a fun phone with sub-woofer like bass but it's more balanced than the PS1000, which is lacking in this department? Hmm, so your preference for the Ed. 8 LE would have nothing to do with the pimping and leather case, and everything to do with superior sound fidelity. 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

^ So are you saying that it's a fun phone with sub-woofer like bass but it's more balanced than the PS1000, which is lacking in this department? Hmm, so your preference for the Ed. 8 LE would have nothing to do with the pimping and leather case, and everything to do with superior sound fidelity. 

Yes, because the PS1000s have really thumpy (but sloppier bass) and the mids were still a bit too recessed. The treble on the PS1000s were definitely tweaked up more than the Ed.8s. So yes, the Ed. 8s are more neutral than the Grados. The PS1000s are much more "U" like (AND THUS MORE COLOURED) in their presentation...just how I hear them and (the graphs support my experiences.

):
 
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2151&graphID[]=1053
 
Build quality...no doubt...the Ed. 8s are the Bugatti and the PS1000s are the soap box racer.

 
Now to get us back on topic --> If the Edition 8LE's are the Bugatti....what does that make the Edition 10s? A rocket ship?

 

[MrSpenkelink]

^ Can't argue with that graph now can we? 

 Have fun with your Bugatti's.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

^ Can't argue with that graph now can we? 

 Have fun with your Bugatti's.

Can't argue, especially when it completely matches what I hear. Have you heard either? I highly recommend a local mini meet. A great way to audition cans (especially expensive ones) before plunking down your hard earned dough.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

 
There's a reason for that....not a whole lot of people actually like them at that price. Plain and simple...if they did, they'd have a following to note and take notice of. Many Grado fans (like myself) still think the best representation of the "classic Grado house sound" is still the RS1i (that's currently in production).
 
The PS1000s did "fix" many of the issues I had with the GS1000, but no doubt that I much prefer the T1s, HD800s, and LCD-2s to the PS1000s (and all are cheaper). Fidelity and "faithfulness" to the recording is very important in hifi sound (especially for $1000+ headphones) and the PS1000s are John Grado's impression of the recording....not the actual intended impressions by the artists.
 
But I can certainly understand how some prefer a more lively presentation with tuned up mid-bass and treble (I did enjoy the D7000s both times I owned them very much) and I'm now enamoured with their sound signature.

Funny you should mention this, because by definition Hi-Fi, or High Fidelity would mean reproducing exactly what is on the recording. So, by definition no grado is actually hi-fi -They have too curved an FR. Not that they don't sound good because they do. What sounds emotionally right, or true to someone is not hi-fi, it is preference. 
 
Also, it tends to be the older crowd that goes nuts for Grado from what I have seen. IE hi-fi magazine reviews and what not. I wonder if the increased DB in the highs and lows and the age of the listeners has anything to do with the perceived neutrality

.
 
 
FWIW I do think it is very unfair to compare any Ultrasone quickly and directly to another headphone. In my experiences s-logic is like memory foam. The more you use it the more you become accustomed to it, or it "molds". When you quick a/b the effect is ruined/not very pronounced and it is as if the foam has returned to its natural shape. Of course people could see this as some sort of ultimate defense card, and in a way it is -but it doesn't mean you have to like ultrasone headphones. Just means they require a fair bit more time than other headphones to really hear. IMO to everything of course, but the large ultrasone thread has lots of similar reports.