[Anouk]

Thanks as always for the reply larry. I did read your westone review, and i guess after reading your es3x impressions there is no comparison. One could always hope though, lol.
My tf10 will hopefully arrive sometime the coming week and a friend of mine has tf10 AND westone 3 at the moment, the lucky guy!
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Digihead, thanks for your WONDERFUL impressions. It was really a pleasure to read your insight. I am wondering if you find the 6-8kHz frequency range (where most cymbal and sibilance energy lies) to be flat or overemphasized with the UE10, and in turn if the ES3X have a dip over there or are just flat. Ehm, a comparison of the two with the UE11 would be equally interesting: I always read that the UE11 have more extended treble than the UE10, but if the 11's are smoother maybe they are flatter too, against a peaky UE10. I owned the Triple.fi and I have had sibilance problems with them, and as such I have kept away from the UE11 who a fellow headfier (jlingo) told me to have similar highs to the Trips. Congrats for your ability to describe and let others understand the sound and your related feeling (the environment/bar/hospital metaphore was very nice).

I have never heard the Triple Fi's, however from what I remember reading they have been described as being closer in sound to the UE10 than the UE11. I will say flat out that the UE11 have the best highs I have ever heard with an IEM and dare I say some of the best highs I have ever heard of any headphone. The UE11 highs can extend seemingly forever without the slightest hint of harshness or sibiliance. I am amazed at their capability in this regard and it is one of the reasons I have always loved the UE11.

The highs on the UE10 and UE11 are more present than on the ES3x. I believe in what I have heard so far with the ES3x that the highs are there and the extension is there, however they have a bit more of a distant presentation to the high frequencies vs. either the UE10 or UE11. (Distant is probably not the right term by the way...)

Sibilance on the UE10 as I hear it can be brutal. I believe it is only there when the possibility exists for it on the recording, however I have heard WAY more sibilance on the UE10 than I have heard on any other custom IEM. This can be mitigated depending on the other equipment in the chain. For example, using 5.5g iMod>ALO Jumbo Cryo/gold dipped silver LOD>SR-71A the UE10s smooth out and sound fantastic.

Hopefully that helps. Let me know.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm pretty sure digihead, like me, feels the ES3X are more comfortable than our other customs (I'm glad I got the heat sensitive tips). Pila, MaloS and Tony - See sasaki's comments of ES3X and UE11pro: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...thread-409063/ and my mini-review where I can easily hear 16Hz - 16KHz: Westone ES3X Appreciation Thread - Page 3 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio I don't hear any artificial bump or troughs in the frequency response anywhere. For instance in the bass I hear a boost with Westone 3/UM-56 (like modded D2000 or Edition 9), but it isn't too intrusive and doesn't bleed into the vocals - while the bass boost in X10 and IE8 bleeds into the lower mids and colors the vocals. There is no tizzy treble or sibilance which I can get with the wrong ear position or tips with Phonak Audeo. And no treble imbalance like in the IE8 where with cymbal strikes I can hear more drumstick than I do cymbal.

Allow me to quickly clarify, and I hope that this thought won't go un-noticed....the ES3x are the most comfortable custom IEM I have ever worn. Period.

I wore the ES3x for over 10 hours straight on an International flight recently and never took them out. I easily fell asleep with them in, woke up and started listening to music again. I did the same thing while falling asleep on my travels. Due to some hotel/traffic noise and the need to sleep during the day, I put on some mellow music and fell asleep with them in my ears. They were not only totally comfortable, they are so comfortable that I tend to forget they are even in my ears.

The caution here of course is that I missed some calls from the hotel due to the isolation and not hearing the phone. The upside in this particular scenario is that had I heard the phone I would have been woken up vs. getting good sleep.

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have never heard the Triple Fi's, however from what I remember reading they have been described as being closer in sound to the UE10 than the UE11. I will say flat out that the UE11 have the best highs I have ever heard with an IEM and dare I say some of the best highs I have ever heard of any headphone. The UE11 highs can extend seemingly forever without the slightest hint of harshness or sibiliance. I am amazed at their capability in this regard and it is one of the reasons I have always loved the UE11. The highs on the UE10 and UE11 are more present than on the ES3x. I believe in what I have heard so far with the ES3x that the highs are there and the extension is there, however they have a bit more of a distant presentation to the high frequencies vs. either the UE10 or UE11. (Distant is probably not the right term by the way...) Sibilance on the UE10 as I hear it can be brutal. I believe it is only there when the possibility exists for it on the recording, however I have heard WAY more sibilance on the UE10 than I have heard on any other custom IEM. This can be mitigated depending on the other equipment in the chain. For example, using 5.5g iMod>ALO Jumbo Cryo/gold dipped silver LOD>SR-71A the UE10s smooth out and sound fantastic. Hopefully that helps. Let me know.

Yes, it helps a lot. Do you feel the Westones mask some details other than presenting treble more distantly?
Oh, and I'll join the queue with catscratch for your comparison between the ES3X and the UE11.

Thank you.

 

[pila405]

Hey, digihead and HPA - thank you very much, you have great posts with very helpful information and are well written [not as mine ^_^].

digihead, what do you think about the size of the soundtage, imaging and headstage abilities of those two iems? which one have larger/deeper soundstage with better imaging? and how dramatic are the diffrences?

also, which one have better fit? are more comfortable?

and btw, i have great discount over the UE-10 so i dont know if i should realy spend this extra amount [diffrence of 150$] to have the ES3X if the diffrences of the soundsage size/depth and imaging abilities are not so diffrent...

with great thanks,
pila405

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Awesome! How are you liking the ES3x vs. the UE11?

Haven't lost sight of this question Catscratch...

This is the big question right here for me...UE11 or ES3x.

It will take me more time to get my head around that one because it isn't an easy task to undertake. They each have their own sound and both are truly amazing.

I will say I haven't spent hardly any time with the UE11 since I got the ES3x. Typically I find it important whenever I get a custom IEM to spend a good amount of dedicated time to only that IEM to understand the sound signature and get fully immersed in the sound. This is what I have been doing with the ES3x. Interestingly, I have found no need or desire to pick up the UE11 when I have the ES3x available. So take that as a sign I guess.

Honestly, when I got the UE11 I didn't pick up any other custom IEM for over a year. I put them in and just never looked back. They have the ability to produce a jaw dropping sound that is just flat out incredible. I have spent more time with the UE11 literally shaking my head wondering how on earth any IEM could sound like that. I still find myself in this kind of awestruck position even after owning them for close to two years.

I never had an issue with the UE11 bass. I read the ilounge review and haven't ever disagreed more with a review than I did with their take on the UE11 and the bass in particular. I find that bass is something that for me is something I get acclimated to over time. The UE11 bass is awesome. Simply awesome. You want to hear how bass CAN be done...listen to the UE11. I have never heard or experienced bass like that. Especially on something like electronica music it just simply can't be touched. You want to feel the bass hit you...it's the UE11. Want to know what rock music with killer bass done right sounds like...it's the UE11. You want bass impact...UE11. I think the bass of the UE11 no doubt contributes to their overall sound and that jaw dropping ability I referenced above. You can't realisitcally talk about the sound of the UE11 without acknowledging the effect, presence and ability of the bass on the sound. It is simply awesome.

What I was surprised about is the bass of the ES3x. From reading initial impressions I thought they would seem lacking in bass when compared to the UE11. Quite the contrary, the ES3x have fantastic bass. LIstening to Jerry Cantrell Degradation Trip Vol 1 and 2 on the ES3x as I type this and the bass is fantastic. Definitely a dark rocker of a CD, the bass detail comes through with a sound and effect that makes you want to bang your head and play some air bass. ('Slow poison working inside...Descending in a shadow, cocoon me then bite' - fantastic CD if you haven't ever heard it. Chronicles the drug issues Jerry Cantrell was having along with the demise of Alice in Chains, etc.)

The issue for many comes around the concern of the UE11 bass perhaps being overpowering on the sound. I will concede that the bass can be overly present with some equipment and in some combinations (on occasion on some material). I want to put out a caution however that its not something you would really necessarily notice if the UE11 were the only custom IEM you had, simply because you get acclimated to the bass and any issue of it being slightly more than you might be used to on the rare occasion really becomes your new baseline of bass. I will also say that on the rare occasion this does happen, it is far outweighed by the rest of the time when the bass provides that jaw dropping sound.

As I mentioned previously, acclimating to a sound of a custom IEM is important to me in terms of understanding the sound signature. I never thought the bass of the UE11 was overpowering until I heard the ES3x. If you were to spend time listening to the ES3x and then switched to the UE11, the bass would seem like its bowling you over at first. Then after a bit, you would acclimate to it and it would be good to go. By contrast, if you spent time listening to the UE11 and then switched to the ES3x, you would immediately notice less bass presence and punch. However, again, you would quickly acclimate to the sound and appreciate it almost instantly.

I will say that the UE11 have a hair more bass detail and definitely has more of a punch to it than the ES3x. This isn't a knock on the ES3x bass at all, as it is killer as well. It is more of an accolade on the UE11 bass.

More to come...I'm rambling...

 

[mark_h]

The UE-11 are mindbogglingly good!

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, it helps a lot. Do you feel the Westones mask some details other than presenting treble more distantly? Oh, and I'll join the queue with catscratch for your comparison between the ES3X and the UE11. Thank you.

Ask and ye shall receive...see the first round below...

Interestingly, the Westone's mask NO detail. NONE. I want that to be perfectly clear. The ES3x are just as detailed as the UE11 or the UE10 in my opinion. You could hear a cat fart in the studio with these things.

The ES3x have the ability to present that detail in more of a part of the overall audio story and presentation vs. the UE that tend to make you think 'wow I never heard that before...' Its hard to explain but the ES3x seem to present detail as more a part of the overall experience. The ES3x stand up and say 'here we go...' and you get moving along with them. I get done listening to a song, or typically an entire CD since I can't stop listening and think 'that was an incredible audio experience right there...'

Part of that experience is the tone, timbre and presence of the ES3x sound. The tone is spot on in sounding very lifelike and realistic vs. the UE that tend to sound like more of a big tour production vs. the ES3x that sound like you're seeing a band in a 3k seat venue.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif The UE-11 are mindbogglingly good!

I completely agree with this statement. There are many long threads about the UE11 and if you read them, the overwhelming sentiment is they are indeed mindboggingly good.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, digihead and HPA - thank you very much, you have great posts with very helpful information and are well written [not as mine ^_^]. digihead, what do you think about the size of the soundtage, imaging and headstage abilities of those two iems? which one have larger/deeper soundstage with better imaging? and how dramatic are the diffrences? also, which one have better fit? are more comfortable? and btw, i have great discount over the UE-10 so i dont know if i should realy spend this extra amount [diffrence of 150$] to have the ES3X if the diffrences of the soundsage size/depth and imaging abilities are not so diffrent... with great thanks, pila405

At a certain point it is splitting REALLY small hairs to nail down the differences in soundstage and headstage abilities of all three. All of them are fantastic. Imaging is good on all three. I would have to say that the ES3x have the most realistic image weight while the UE11 have an image that is perhaps a bit more refined. The UE10 have great imaging capabilities, however in direct comparison will sound thinner when doing a direct A/B with the others mentioned above. Honestly though, you wouldn't ever notice this on the UE10 unless you had one of the others to make the direct comparison to.

 

[Ricey20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ask and ye shall receive...see the first round below... Interestingly, the Westone's mask NO detail. NONE. I want that to be perfectly clear. The ES3x are just as detailed as the UE11 or the UE10 in my opinion. You could hear a cat fart in the studio with these things. The ES3x have the ability to present that detail in more of a part of the overall audio story and presentation vs. the UE that tend to make you think 'wow I never heard that before...' Its hard to explain but the ES3x seem to present detail as more a part of the overall experience. The ES3x stand up and say 'here we go...' and you get moving along with them. I get done listening to a song, or typically an entire CD since I can't stop listening and think 'that was an incredible audio experience right there...' Part of that experience is the tone, timbre and presence of the ES3x sound. The tone is spot on in sounding very lifelike and realistic vs. the UE that tend to sound like more of a big tour production vs. the ES3x that sound like you're seeing a band in a 3k seat venue.

You sure do know how to paint an interesting picture in the mind

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, digihead and HPA - thank you very much, you have great posts with very helpful information and are well written [not as mine ^_^]. digihead, what do you think about the size of the soundtage, imaging and headstage abilities of those two iems? which one have larger/deeper soundstage with better imaging? and how dramatic are the diffrences? also, which one have better fit? are more comfortable? and btw, i have great discount over the UE-10 so i dont know if i should realy spend this extra amount [diffrence of 150$] to have the ES3X if the diffrences of the soundsage size/depth and imaging abilities are not so diffrent... with great thanks, pila405

As previously mentioned, the ES3x are the most comfortable custom IEM I own, hands down.

 

[antonyfirst]

Hey Digi, how is midrange on the UE11? I have always heard about the big bass and extended treble, but I don't usually hear as much talk about the mids. Are the ES3X more lifelike and natural?

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Digi, how is midrange on the UE11? I have always heard about the big bass and extended treble, but I don't usually hear as much talk about the mids. Are the ES3X more lifelike and natural?

The mids on the UE11 are incredible. Detailed and present without being overly forward or laid back. Really well done.

Westone has a kick ass take on the mids. VERY lifelike and natural. The way the ES3x presents the mids is amazing. There is no way you couldn't focus on the mids with the ES3x. It is in balance with the rest of the music and slightly forward but not overdone or out of alignment. The magic is in the midrange and from that perspective, the ES3x are truly magical.

I went old skool a little while ago and listened to Ronnie James Dio - Holy Diver. Been a long time since I listened to that CD. Incredible hearing it on the ES3x. I can see Dio in front of me singing, belting it out. The ES3x are an emotional IEM for sure. You can't help but get caught up in the music. I had only intended to listen for a little while and I have had them on for three hours or so and could happily listen all day.

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haven't lost sight of this question Catscratch... [... assorted awesomeness ...]

Hehehe I know, that was a nasty nasty question. I'll ask you again in a month when it's time to actually buy the damn thing. For now, I am very interested in any and all rambles on the matter.

Honestly you make them both sound very appealing, but for me the midrange comes first and foremost. I want a liquid, organic sound with emphasis on a fluid midrange with correct tone, extreme levels of detail, accurate imaging rather than a massively diffuse soundstage, highs with no sibilance, and bass that's deep, controlled, and impactful rather than boomy and overblown. With tactile presence and endless dynamic range. And utmost transparency and ability to disappear. Not too much to ask for, is it now...

Basically, well-driven O2 Mk1 in an IEM. Or a good bass-light K340 minus all of the nasty colorations. Or HE90 without the one-note bass and overly diffuse soundstage.

I can't mentally adjust to a tonal balance I don't like, if something is out of balance, it will irritate me forever and ever.

So, the ES3x is looking more tempting, especially since it's $300 cheaper, but time will tell.

Are the ES3x mids tonally similar to the ES2 in any way? What are the UE11 mids like in comparison, i.e. which is more fluid and transparent, and which do you prefer?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anouk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also wanted some clarification on one point, is it true that if you get the tf10 and w3 you will get the westone and ultimate ears house sound and will know more or less what es3x and 10pro will sound like?

The W3 is not the Westone sound. They really missed the ball with that one. It can sound like the Westone sound if the fit is right, but for a lot of people it's damn near impossible to get the fit right. And when the fit is wrong, it sounds like ***. Wretched.

So, I better hope that the ES3x is nothing like the W3 with a bad seal. But then again it doesn't sound like it at all from the impressions. It sounds more like an ES2 with much better detail and separation, which would be great.