[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by parrot5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ah, that's where I misunderstood from the beginning... To me (and maybe some other classical listeners and players as well), all amped performances are indeed colored. I believe when you listen to vocals, you're looking for a "live performance" sound... whereas I look for an in-studio sound. Similarly, when you listen to strings, maybe you're looking for an amped instrument sound, whereas I look for an acoustic instrument sound. A bit like Shure vs Etymotic, in my limited IEM experience.

Not just a "live performance sound" but I want to also hear whatever it sounded like when it was being recorded - a real voice or singer not just a mic'd voice over the PA, and a real acoustic guitar, cello, piano, sax, drums, string bass, etc... Whether those real instruments are in a studio, or jazz club, or auditorium. I want the performance re-created for me in all it's glory. As for what I call natural, that includes the real instrument's timbre and tone and presence, just as if it was in the room with me.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif very good post - I would just like to add that in my eyes if I use your definition of colored or not, then all live musical performances are colored (when you are sitting there listening to the actual band or real instruments play) because the actual performance is fun and engaging too. When am at a performance and I can reach out an touch the cello or the piano or drums, and then I hear a recording that gives me the same musical experience as if I were really there, then I call it natural and uncolored. Maybe I tend to think of analytical as being too dry, as well as fitting your definition about causing one to pick apart and analyze the musical parts; but I think of colored as altering the sound from what it should sound like, and therefore I do not like to call the ES3X "colored".

Wow...totally agree. All live music has color as a part of the sound and a part of the experience due to the nature of the live event as fun and engaging.

You did a great job of capturing what 'natural' sound is and I concur. However, if you look at capturing natural then you are in essence conveying the true accurate color of the sound as represented. Somehow the UE10 remove this natural sense to convey a transparency that eliminates the natural feel of the musical performance and leaves the instruments and performers there under a set of strong bright white lights leaving nothing to hide.

I tend to think of the UE10 much like this. There are favorite places of mine...a restaurant or bar for example, where the atmosphere, lighting and crowd are a part of the overall experience that I enjoy. I would associate this with being a 'natural' type of sound experience.

The UE10 are like going into that same favorite restaurant or bar with the same music and same crowd, only turning on hospital operating room type bright lights throughout the establishment vs. the usual lighting. This would cause you to look at and analyze things in a whole different way, which may or may not be enjoyable for you. You would perhaps see that the tables don't look as nice, the carpet isn't in that great of shape, the guy playing the guitar on stage has lived a harder life than you originally realized, your waiter needs to get some sleep and get out in the sun more often, etc. In general, were this turning on of the hospital super lights to happen in one of my favorite restaurants or bars, it would cause me to analyze everything simply because you couldn't help it. To me, that would be stressful and not enjoyable.

Although listening to the UE10 is certainly not stressful, I do find myself more tense when listening because of this analytical nature of the presentation. Put the ES3x on and I feel like I am back in my old favorite spot, with the lighting just right and the atmosphere right where I have grown to love it.

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not just a "live performance sound" but I want to also hear whatever it sounded like when it was being recorded - a real voice or singer not just a mic'd voice over the PA, and a real acoustic guitar, cello, piano, sax, drums, string bass, etc... Whether those real instruments are in a studio, or jazz club, or auditorium. I want the performance re-created for me in all it's glory. As for what I call natural, that includes the real instrument's timbre and tone and presence, just as if it was in the room with me.

The concept of timbre, tone and presence is also very important as well. The ES3x has a wonderful timbre, tone and presence. Westone has done a great job of capturing tone as was conveyed with the ES2 and taken the overall sound to a whole new level.

Presence and tone are especially strong suits of the ES3x. I can listen to them for hours on end and never even feel like I want to take them out or stop listening to music. That is pretty unique with headphones and even custom IEMs as at some point you want to reconnect with the outside world. With the ES3x the sense of a natural listening experience is captivating to the point of not ever feeling the need to reconnect with the outside world while you have them in. I guess in part that is because I get the sense that I have the musicians in the room with me, playing for me, vs. listening to recorded music.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow...totally agree. All live music has color as a part of the sound and a part of the experience due to the nature of the live event as fun and engaging. You did a great job of capturing what 'natural' sound is and I concur. However, if you look at capturing natural then you are in essence conveying the true accurate color of the sound as represented. Somehow the UE10 remove this natural sense to convey a transparency that eliminates the natural feel of the musical performance and leaves the instruments and performers there under a set of strong bright white lights leaving nothing to hide. I tend to think of the UE10 much like this. There are favorite places of mine...a restaurant or bar for example, where the atmosphere, lighting and crowd are a part of the overall experience that I enjoy. I would associate this with being a 'natural' type of sound experience. The UE10 are like going into that same favorite restaurant or bar with the same music and same crowd, only turning on hospital operating room type bright lights throughout the establishment vs. the usual lighting. This would cause you to look at and analyze things in a whole different way, which may or may not be enjoyable for you. You would perhaps see that the tables don't look as nice, the carpet isn't in that great of shape, the guy playing the guitar on stage has lived a harder life than you originally realized, your waiter needs to get some sleep and get out in the sun more often, etc. In general, were this turning on of the hospital super lights to happen in one of my favorite restaurants or bars, it would cause me to analyze everything simply because you couldn't help it. To me, that would be stressful and not enjoyable. Although listening to the UE10 is certainly not stressful, I do find myself more tense when listening because of this analytical nature of the presentation. Put the ES3x on and I feel like I am back in my old favorite spot, with the lighting just right and the atmosphere right where I have grown to love it.

That made me laugh.

 

[Anouk]

Hello everyone, glad i found this thread!
Thanks for all this GREAT and so well written information, this helped me out A LOT! Its so good that we have a place like head-fi where people like you buy lots off stuff and explain how it sounds to all of us, especially since you said you cant just return custom iems, well most of them you cant, i know a company who letsyou return iems within a week if you dont like them but they are not well known.
I also wanted some clarification on one point, is it true that if you get the tf10 and w3 you will get the westone and ultimate ears house sound and will know more or less what es3x and 10pro will sound like?
For me if I go for customs eventually its between es3x and acs t1 now. Although I would be very afraid of my ears changing/losing seal.
Thanks again for this wonderful thread!
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anouk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also wanted some clarification on one point, is it true that if you get the tf10 and w3 you will get the westone and ultimate ears house sound and will know more or less what es3x and 10pro will sound like? For me if I go for customs eventually its between es3x and acs t1 now. Although I would be very afraid of my ears changing/losing seal. Thanks again for this wonderful thread! Greetings, Anouk,

I can't say that what you heard (bold added above) is true of the W3 > ES3X, because of how much better the ES3X are to anything I have put in my ears. The ES3X are not an upgraded version of the W3.

At the time I first got the Westone 3 they were the best IEM I'd ever put in my ears. I felt they gave me a similar immersive and powerful musical experience as with my Edition 9, but in an IEM. While I still really like the Westone 3, the ES3X and Westone 3 do not sound alike. The ES3X add more clarity and detail with better bass balance, and no need to fiddle with various silicon and foam tips or ear canal position to find the right sound. You can read my reviews to get a better idea of what the differences are.

I have four customs - ES3X, Livewires, Freq Show and SE530 in a custom Livewires shell - and the ES3X are clearly superior.

I have had many universal IEM over the past 2 years - the Westone 3 beat all of them, and most of the time beat 3 out of 4 of my customs as well.

 

[pila405]

Hey, digihead and HPA - thank you very much, you have great posts with very helpful information and are well written [not as mine ^_^].

digihead, what do you think about the size of the soundtage, imaging and headstage abilities of those two iems? which one have larger/deeper soundstage with better imaging? and how dramatic are the diffrences?

also, which one have better fit? are more comfortable?

and btw, i have great discount over the UE-10 so i dont know if i should realy spend this extra amount to have the ES3X if the diffrences of the soundsage size/depth and imaging abilities are not so diffrent...

with great thanks,
pila405

 

[MaloS]

Digihead, my favorite question that you did not touch up on too much. How far do you find ES3X to go at the frequency extremes?

 

[antonyfirst]

Digihead, thanks for your WONDERFUL impressions. It was really a pleasure to read your insight. I am wondering if you find the 6-8kHz frequency range (where most cymbal and sibilance energy lies) to be flat or overemphasized with the UE10, and in turn if the ES3X have a dip over there or are just flat. Ehm, a comparison of the two with the UE11 would be equally interesting: I always read that the UE11 have more extended treble than the UE10, but if the 11's are smoother maybe they are flatter too, against a peaky UE10. I owned the Triple.fi and I have had sibilance problems with them, and as such I have kept away from the UE11 who a fellow headfier (jlingo) told me to have similar highs to the Trips.
Congrats for your ability to describe and let others understand the sound and your related feeling (the environment/bar/hospital metaphore was very nice).

 

[pila405]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Digihead, thanks for your WONDERFUL impressions. It was really a pleasure to read your insight. I am wondering if you find the 6-8kHz frequency range (where most cymbal and sibilance energy lies) to be flat or overemphasized with the UE10, and in turn if the ES3X have a dip over there or are just flat. Ehm, a comparison of the two with the UE11 would be equally interesting: I always read that the UE11 have more extended treble than the UE10, but if the 11's are smoother maybe they are flatter too, against a peaky UE10. I owned the Triple.fi and I have had sibilance problems with them, and as such I have kept away from the UE11 who a fellow headfier (jlingo) told me to have similar highs to the Trips. Congrats for your ability to describe and let others understand the sound and your related feeling (the environment/bar/hospital metaphore was very nice).

the UE-10 & UE-11 share the same highs driver.

 

[antonyfirst]

I am not certain about it, and even if it was the case they might be tuned differently, since people owning both IEMs are perceiving their highs very differently. Do you have a link to provide?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey, digihead and HPA - thank you very much, you have great posts with very helpful information and are well written [not as mine ^_^]. digihead, what do you think about the size of the soundtage, imaging and headstage abilities of those two iems? which one have larger/deeper soundstage with better imaging? and how dramatic are the diffrences? also, which one have better fit? are more comfortable? and btw, i have great discount over the UE-10 so i dont know if i should realy spend this extra amount to have the ES3X if the diffrences of the soundsage size/depth and imaging abilities are not so diffrent... with great thanks, pila405

I'm pretty sure digihead, like me, feels the ES3X are more comfortable than our other customs (I'm glad I got the heat sensitive tips).

Pila, MaloS and Tony - See sasaki's comments of ES3X and UE11pro: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/w...thread-409063/

and my mini-review where I can easily hear 16Hz - 16KHz: Westone ES3X Appreciation Thread - Page 3 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio

I don't hear any artificial bump or troughs in the frequency response anywhere. For instance in the bass I hear a boost with Westone 3/UM-56 (like modded D2000 or Edition 9), but it isn't too intrusive and doesn't bleed into the vocals - while the bass boost in X10 and IE8 bleeds into the lower mids and colors the vocals. There is no tizzy treble or sibilance which I can get with the wrong ear position or tips with Phonak Audeo. And no treble imbalance like in the IE8 where with cymbal strikes I can hear more drumstick than I do cymbal.

 

[antonyfirst]

Hey Larry, I wrote elsewhere that I sent you a pm a few days ago, but having had some issues with pm'ing, I don't know either if it got to you, or if you replied and I didn't receive it.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Larry, I wrote elsewhere that I sent you a pm a few days ago, but having had some issues with pm'ing, I don't know either if it got to you, or if you replied and I didn't receive it.

I replied at 10:42pm 2/23 and have a copy that I sent you just now:

I can post it here if you still don't get it.

Larry

 

[antonyfirst]

Got it. Hopefully the flow of chatting can go on now.