TRN impressions thread
Nov 4, 2020 at 9:03 PM Post #2,461 of 2,635

saldsald

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I agreed on this one... based on that Wagakki Band sound test... oh man... they sounded awful with V90S, and superb with CA16

Which cable are you using exactly?

edit: I have been a wagakki band fan since their debut and their early recordings were poorly mastered including this one. I personally think the V90s is a rather technical pair can be picky on the recording and mastering quality. If you are looking for a forgiving pair of IEM I think the V90s is really not for you. You can take a listen to this one which I think the mastering is top notch


or at least listen to their more recent releases such as this
 
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Nov 6, 2020 at 7:54 AM Post #2,462 of 2,635

saldsald

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I think EQ can fix certain stuff in the frequency response but it won't fix some issues like timbre, imaging, instrument separation, speed of driver.

The TRN V90S has quite a bad timbre for acoustic instruments IMHO. I have both V90S and TRI I3 and TRI I3 is for me the superior IEM (when amped), in terms of timbre, soundstage, lush mids/note weight, imaging and tonality. Maybe u can EQ the depressed mids of the V90S up to get a general similar frequency response, but the timbre doesn't change. TRN V90S is good for music genres not really incorporating acoustic instruments though.

I really wonder what setup did you use for your V90s and i3. Today I AB compared extensively the tri i3 and V90s with a violin album
this one above to be exact. And I really find the i3 making the violin sounds really unrealistic. The violin doesn't have this much mid range frequency resonance. I think in terms of stage, realism, and especially top end detail the V90s is far superior.

I paired both of them with a 8 core gold plated copper and silver plated copper mix cable and I didn't even EQ the V90s.
 
Nov 6, 2020 at 8:09 AM Post #2,463 of 2,635

baskingshark

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I really wonder what setup did you use for your V90s and i3. Today I AB compared extensively the tri i3 and V90s with a violin album
this one above to be exact. And I really find the i3 making the violin sounds really unrealistic. The violin doesn't have this much mid range frequency resonance. I think in terms of stage, realism, and especially top end detail the V90s is far superior.

I paired both of them with a 8 core gold plated copper and silver plated copper mix cable and I didn't even EQ the V90s.

What source are u using with the TRI I3?

The TRI I3 needs amping to wake up the planars inside, low powered gear doesn't do it justice. I am currently using a Khadas Tone Board -> Topping L30, more than enough power and quite neutral, so hopefully it doesn't colour any frequencies. I gotta say when both are amped, the TRI I3 beats the V90S in soundstage and imaging. I don't use EQ too for almost all of my IEMs. And the comparisons of TRN V90S vs TRI I3 are all using stock cable and stock tips, nothing aftermarket.

When I spoke about the timbre for the V90S, it is not the best for brass and woodwind instruments, sounds quite artificial IMHO. For stringed instruments, the V90S has BA timbre in the higher frequenecies, not as natural as single DD type timbre for strings, but quite okay for a BA still in the big scheme of things in the area of strings. TRI I3 sounds more authentic in brass and woodwinds in the area of timbre. Top end detail I gotta agree that the V90S may be better, but the V90S has boosted treble whereas the TRI I3 is a bit dark in the treble, so some of by virtue of the frequency response the V90S will have better clarity and microdetails as such.

TRN V90S has too depressed mids (may be too V shaped) IMO, I would prefer something more flat or neutralish, or at least more U shaped for classical genres per se, but different strokes for different folks, YMMV as always.
 
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Nov 6, 2020 at 8:22 AM Post #2,464 of 2,635

saldsald

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What is your set up then?

The TRI I3 needs amping to wake up the planars inside, low powered gear doesn't do it justice. I am currently using a Khadas Tone Board -> Topping L30, more than enough power and quite neutral, so hopefully it doesn't colour any frequencies. I gotta say when both are amped, the TRI I3 beats the V90S in soundstage. I don't use EQ too for almost all of my IEMs.

When I spoke about the timbre for the V90S, it is not the best for brass and woodwind instruments, sounds quite artificial IMHO. For stringed instruments, the V90S has BA timbre in the higher frequenecies, not as natural as single DD type timbre for strings, but not too bad for BA still in the big scheme of things in the area of strings. TRI I3 sounds more authentic in brass and woodwinds in the area of timbre. Top end detail I gotta agree that the V90S may be better, but the V90S has boosted treble whereas the TRI I3 is a bit dark in the treble, so some of by virtue of the frequency response the V90S will have better clarity and microdetails as such.

TRN V90S has too depressed mids (may be too V shaped) IMO, I would prefer something more flat or neutralish, or at least more U shaped for classical genres per se, but different strokes for different folks, YMMV as always.
That is a really quick and detailed response. I will list my equipments later but they too should be much more than enough to drive both. I just think there is too much mids for the i3 and hard for me to call that a flat tuning. Maybe I am just a treble head but I will try to listen to some brass and woodwinds in the coming days. Thanks for the reply and will share my view later. I will also include the tin T4 in the comparison.
 
Nov 6, 2020 at 8:28 AM Post #2,465 of 2,635

baskingshark

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That is a really quick and detailed response. I will list my equipments later but they too should be much more than enough to drive both. I just think there is too much mids for the i3 and hard for me to call that a flat tuning. Maybe I am just a treble head but I will try to listen to some brass and woodwinds in the coming days. Thanks for the reply and will share my view later. I will also include the tin T4 in the comparison.

Yeah TRI I3 isn't flat/neutral, it is more U shaped I would say.

Acoustic guitars and vocals also ain't that natural sounding in the area of timbre on the TRN V90S, voices are a bit thin and nasal. But I would say V90S is still quite good for the price for some genres. It is quite a good set for rock, hip hop, EDM, electronic. I think the TRN V90S is safer in the treble/upper mids than the TRN VX and TRN BA8, and I prefer the TRN V90S to those 2 (V90S is cheaper too).
 
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Nov 6, 2020 at 8:27 PM Post #2,466 of 2,635

saldsald

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Yeah TRI I3 isn't flat/neutral, it is more U shaped I would say.

Acoustic guitars and vocals also ain't that natural sounding in the area of timbre on the TRN V90S, voices are a bit thin and nasal. But I would say V90S is still quite good for the price for some genres. It is quite a good set for rock, hip hop, EDM, electronic. I think the TRN V90S is safer in the treble/upper mids than the TRN VX and TRN BA8, and I prefer the TRN V90S to those 2 (V90S is cheaper too).

I am a bit lost here as I thought I am pretty familiar with how these instruments sound in real life.
And thanks for the comparison among these TRN IEMs as I was hoping the overpriced BA8 to have top end like the V90s and get a pair during 11.11.

Btw, I think it is a bit unfair to use the stock cables on both as the i3 stock cable is of much higher quality.
 
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Nov 6, 2020 at 8:47 PM Post #2,467 of 2,635

baskingshark

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Btw, I think it is a bit unfair to use the stock cables on both as the i3 stock cable is of much higher quality.

Well not everyone here believes in cables changing the sound. I am a cable believer, but even I think cables changing sound are very subtle, not night and day differences. I think you get much more sonic changes with sources and eartips than cables, YMMV.

Anyways when I do reviews and A/B testing, as far as possible I try to stick with the stock accessories provided, maybe only for certain rare exceptions like the BLON BL-03 where most people (including me) can't get a good fit with the stock BLON ear tips. Whatever accessories they put inside the box was probably the intended sound synergy by the manufacturers, unless the companies are trying to cut costs and just give the cheapest accessories. If everyone is using different aftermarket cables and eartips for their evaluation, they may skew the sound signature isn't it. Definitely once A/B testing and review is completed, I'll switch back to my favourite eartip/cable pairing, but I'll stick to the original accessories before that. YMMV as always.

Also, I think majority of lay consumers (other than diehard/experienced audiophiles who know about tip and cablerolling) will just be using what is provided in the box for accessories, so it would be more fair to the majority to just evaluate using what they will be using.
 
Nov 6, 2020 at 9:00 PM Post #2,468 of 2,635

PhonoPhi

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I can add my two cents.

1. Stock cables are often of quite high resistance, changing them for a decent low-resistance cable often makes a lot of difference. The difference between similar resistance copper, silver, spc? - Call me an ardent non-believer (or better show any tangible proof)!

2. I found BAs to reproduce string so much better than DDs to my tastes. After all, how a membrane can sound like strings. DDs are best for drums, and not bad with aerophones.
 
Nov 6, 2020 at 9:13 PM Post #2,469 of 2,635

saldsald

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Well not everyone here believes in cables changing the sound. I am a cable believer, but even I think cables changing sound are very subtle, not night and day differences. I think you get much more sonic changes with sources and eartips than cables, YMMV.

Anyways when I do reviews and A/B testing, as far as possible I try to stick with the stock accessories provided, maybe only for certain rare exceptions like the BLON BL-03 where most people (including me) can't get a good fit with the stock BLON ear tips. Whatever accessories they put inside the box was probably the intended sound synergy by the manufacturers, unless the companies are trying to cut costs and just give the cheapest accessories. If everyone is using different aftermarket cables and eartips for their evaluation, they may skew the sound signature isn't it. Definitely once A/B testing and review is completed, I'll switch back to my favourite eartip/cable pairing, but I'll stick to the original accessories before that. YMMV as always.

Also, I think majority of lay consumers (other than diehard/experienced audiophiles who know about tip and cablerolling) will just be using what is provided in the box for accessories, so it would be more fair to the majority to just evaluate using what they will be using.

I understand why you are using the stock accessories but these cheaper chi fi IEMs' stock cable are mostly just not good enough IMHO. I am a believer in cable changing and I am actually 100 percent certain that cable changes the sound. I have myself around 15 cables and I can assure you that a good cable can better release the potential of the earphones. You can simply compare the sound of a pure silver cable and a pure copper cable the silver one will be much brighter and the copper one will be much darker and fuller. The stock i3 cable is a good balanced cable in sound I think will do better judgement. I have tested many cables and I think the TRN T2 is the best for testing as it is so balanced (and cheap).
 
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Nov 9, 2020 at 4:25 AM Post #2,470 of 2,635

saldsald

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I understand why you are using the stock accessories but these cheaper chi fi IEMs' stock cable are mostly just not good enough IMHO. I am a believer in cable changing and I am actually 100 percent certain that cable changes the sound. I have myself around 15 cables and I can assure you that a good cable can better release the potential of the earphones. You can simply compare the sound of a pure silver cable and a pure copper cable the silver one will be much brighter and the copper one will be much darker and fuller. The stock i3 cable is a good balanced cable in sound I think will do better judgement. I have tested many cables and I think the TRN T2 is the best for testing as it is so balanced (and cheap).

So I have listened to this album again with the Tri i3, TRN V90s, KZ ZAX, KZ ASX, Tin T4 and KZ EDX using my Gold/Silver plated OCC cable and JVC spiral dot tips (Except for the Tin T4 I used different tips and TRN T3, a pure silver cable.
I think in terms of realism:
EDX > V90s > i3 >=T4 =ASX> >ZAX
So it doesn't matter to me whether it is a DD or BA to reproduce the sound of strings and the EDX has single DD on each side and is the cheapest of them all too ($7). The very top end of the ZAX sounds really really artificial to me like having a ceiling of sound clipping. Both V90s and EDX are quite bright which I think helped reproducing the string sounds. i3, T4 and ASX are relatively darker.

Stage size:
EDX > ZAX > V90s > T4 > i3=ASX

Imaging:
They are all good enough to me.

So in conclusion, DDs can reproduce string better than BAs and the EDX with the right eartips and cable I think can sound pretty amazing especially for the price.

YMMV I gotta say.
 
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Nov 9, 2020 at 4:43 AM Post #2,471 of 2,635

PhonoPhi

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So I have listened to this album again with the Tri i3, TRN V90s, KZ ZAX, KZ ASX, Tin T4 and KZ EDX using my Gold/Silver plated OCC cable and JVC spiral dot tips (Except for the Tin T4 I used different tips and TRN T3, a pure silver cable.
I think in terms of realism:
EDX > V90s > i3 >=T4 =ASX> >ZAX
So it doesn't matter to me whether it is a DD or BA to reproduce the sound of strings and the EDX has single DD on each side and is the cheapest of them all too ($7). The very top end of the ZAX sounds really really artificial to me like having a ceiling of sound clipping. Both V90s and EDX are quite bright which I think helped reproducing the string sounds. i3, T4 and ASX are relatively darker.

Stage size:
EDX > ZAX > V90s > T4 > i3=ASX

Imaging:
They are all good enough to me.

So inclusion, DDs can reproduce string better than BAs and the EDX with the right eartips and cable I think can sound pretty amazing especially for the price.

YMMV I gotta say.

A very interesting comparison, thank you.

What is your source?
What is your reference for "realism", where do you listen to violin live?
 
Nov 9, 2020 at 4:49 AM Post #2,472 of 2,635

saldsald

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A very interesting comparison, thank you.

What is your source?
What is your reference for "realism", where do you listen to violin live?

A headfier told me the Sony ZX507 is really transparent sounding so I used it in my comparison (My desktop setup has tubes).
I used to go to live concerts a lot and performed with the orchestra of my high school and college (University). I was a Tenor and I think I have adequate musical sense and good musical memory.
 
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Nov 9, 2020 at 5:06 AM Post #2,473 of 2,635

PhonoPhi

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A headfier told me the Sony ZX507 is really transparent sounding so I used it in my comparison (My desktop setup has tubes).
I used to go to live concerts a lot and performed with the orchestra of my high school and college (University). I was a Tenor and I think I have adequate musical sense and good musical memory.
So the reference is the good musical memories from high school? What are your impressions on violin sound up close and string bite realism? What is the reason for choosing this recording specifically and in general vs. solo violin or string quartets?

Sorry, I am trying to grasp to understand what exactly can make an impression that EDX is realistic for strings (I have it).
 
Nov 9, 2020 at 5:25 AM Post #2,474 of 2,635

saldsald

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So the reference is the good musical memories from high school? What are your impressions on violin sound up close and string bite realism? What is the reason for choosing this recording specifically and in general vs. solo violin or string quartets?

Sorry, I am trying to grasp to understand what exactly can make an impression that EDX is realistic for strings (I have it).

Not exactly and it's not that long ago, lol. I am not an old guy.

I only tried to play the violin so I really can't say what impressions I have on the violin sound up close. All I can say is they don't sound that nasal.

Choosing this recording simply because I enjoy listening to Bach and I think Daniel is a really good, technical and expressive violinist. (I recently listened to a sample track of Ray Chan's album and I feel sorry to say that I really find his playing especially the note weight rather messy although I don't even play the violin). The recording of this album is also pretty good. I also listened to this album:


I find the strings sounding very thin and not lively almost not sounding real to me so I think Daniel's album was a good choice.

I also read that the EDX is good for EDM and R & B, etc. But I think the soundstage and the timbre of the EDX, to me, are really good for classical music too. As I said before I am a believe in cable and eartip rolling so I even listed what I used above. I am pretty sure they can totally change the character of a pair of IEM so it may sound bad with your setup but sound really good with mine. It's hard to compare without controls.
 
Nov 9, 2020 at 10:24 AM Post #2,475 of 2,635

PhonoPhi

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Not exactly and it's not that long ago, lol. I am not an old guy.

I only tried to play the violin so I really can't say what impressions I have on the violin sound up close. All I can say is they don't sound that nasal.

Choosing this recording simply because I enjoy listening to Bach and I think Daniel is a really good, technical and expressive violinist. (I recently listened to a sample track of Ray Chan's album and I feel sorry to say that I really find his playing especially the note weight rather messy although I don't even play the violin). The recording of this album is also pretty good. I also listened to this album:


I find the strings sounding very thin and not lively almost not sounding real to me so I think Daniel's album was a good choice.

I also read that the EDX is good for EDM and R & B, etc. But I think the soundstage and the timbre of the EDX, to me, are really good for classical music too. As I said before I am a believe in cable and eartip rolling so I even listed what I used above. I am pretty sure they can totally change the character of a pair of IEM so it may sound bad with your setup but sound really good with mine. It's hard to compare without controls.
Thank you. It feels that these recordings emphasize orchestral sound, with the violin recorded from a distance.
With the violins recorded up close, the sound details can be different, especially with pizzicato.
I do not play violin, but when my children started to play I took some interest in violin acoustics, finding the right strings (sometimes it takes years).

With this hobby, I went to explore what would be the best approximation of violin sound by IEMs, which is for me BAs by far. An overall timbre may suffer, but reproducing the richness of the details listening very close to a violin is definitely worth it for me.
I would not ever claim of exact reproduction or reference sound (there may be several references selected), just the best approximation to my ears.

As for the cables, definitely there is often a difference when upgrading from the high-impedance stock cables, but beyond that no evidence was ever shown that silver, copper and spc cables of the same resistance with the same connectors are any different (and, again, sensitive rigs are out there to back up any claims, as it is convincingly done documenting effects of different tips and venting modification).

I have not bothered to compare EDX with its stock cable. I used 16-core balanced one right away (feeling a bit of irony that the cable is more expensive than the IEM).
EDX are very nice for its price, if it works for the enjoyment of orchestral music - then they are precious for $5-$7 :)

Feeling guilty of off-topic in the TRN thread. I recently got M10 (skipping why), a quite lovely design.
I only could not figure out polarity...

Not surprisingly, I like M10 sound more than EDX - just that cheerful BA in the nozzle.
 

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