[Aevum]

my issues with the phantom master 4 has been addressed, i got new cables about a week after the complaint,
 
Its just that Trinity uses Donkey express for shipping, so unless you paid extra for expedited shipping and unless you live in the UK, expect 2-3 weeks to pass from shipping to delivery.

 

[RobA19]

As a former Sales Director & Managing Director of high volume, seasonal, fashion businesses, where matching production to forecasting is critical, I can say that Rule 101 "under promise and over deliver" is a pretty good rule of thumb. I smile at the complaints on here, because trust me, when you get your head ripped off by global retail chains as I've had many times, Bob's level of moans and groans are a piece of cake!
Still waiting patiently for my three Trinity iem's and have bought two further unplanned ones while waiting.
Oh & I think I would've made sure the nearest head-fier to my main office would've got their order delivered by taxi, knowing photos and feedback would quiet the madding crowd!

 

[Tommy C]

OK, so based on what l see everything is going to be shipped by March 24/25 which is good news, but there is no email yet with shipping confirmation or tracking. Also no one from Head-Fi or other blogs posted anything about new items. I also understand it has been a long wait for most.  If there are no updates in the next week or so with March 25 as the deadline then l would raise a flag. I guess for now, it's a waiting game.  
 
I also think people have every right to be frustrated especially if the wait has been that long and ETA date was pushed further many times. I don't feel others should attack folks who are frustrated with the long wait. People are different, some need to rant while some don't mind waiting because they got a good deal.
 
I understand many people including myself like to purchase stuff at discounted price, in this case my only question is how do you guys determine the value if no one has heard or seen them yet? Based on the number of drivers? features? Sound signature? Material being used? 
 
I'm just curious, if you go by Trinity's MSRP and take the discount off those items would that be the fair market value for such items?
Just trying to understand the logic behind "it's pre-order, hence prices are cheap so we are OK waiting even if there are some delays" or am I missing something? 

 

[Midgetguy]

  I think the frequency of the complaints is a measure of the dissatisfaction of the customers for the reasons stated.  Yes it comes up often, but I think it's because it is at that magnitude.

Not necessarily. I won't say you're wrong though because there's as little evidence that you're wrong as there is that you're right. And the reason I say this is because we live in the information age. Social media has the potential to skew interpretations of situations in both good and bad ways.
 
Take any product on the market. It could be a fantastic product for 1000 people, but let's say of those people, only 20 of them give positive reviews and the other 980 didn't review at all because they simply had no complaints with the product. But let's say a further 75 people weren't happy with the product and wrote negative reviews. The product now gets a bad rep because we're more likely to post a complaint about a product rather than sing its praises. What I'm trying to convey is that a few vocally negative opinions can drastically skew the perceptions regarding otherwise great things.
 
There's two ways to interpret the fact that we're seeing these complaints. One is the model I tried to explain above, wherein you see lots of complaints, but they are from a small pool of people relative to the number of shipped product because most people aren't having issues and thus have no reason to complain; these outspoken individuals are all having problems, but they don't represent the majority of owners. The other way to interpret is by extrapolation: this small pool of vocal people are proportionately representative of those that received the shipped product and it's as bad as claimed in most cases. As in, let's say of the 10 people that received a product, 8 indicate it's bad, 2 indicate it's good, and that ratio persists when surveying all owners.
 
Because of this type of inconsistency, I can't say that product dissatisfaction is at the magnitude that you think it's at. Likewise, I also can't say the problem ISN'T at that magnitude because I have little evidence to back up either argument.

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

@Midgetguy I totally agree. We should have the moderator activate the poll on this thread to see how many are truly dissatisfied. It won't be more or even close to the number of orders.

 

[Midgetguy]

  OK, so based on what l see everything is going to be shipped by March 24/25 which is good news, but there is no email yet with shipping confirmation or tracking. Also no one from Head-Fi or other blogs posted anything about new items. I also understand it has been a long wait for most.  If there are no updates in the next week or so with March 25 as the deadline then l would raise a flag. I guess for now, it's a waiting game.  
 
I also think people have every right to be frustrated especially if the wait has been that long and ETA date was pushed further many times. I don't feel others should attack folks who are frustrated with the long wait. People are different, some need to rant while some don't mind waiting because they got a good deal.
 
I understand many people including myself like to purchase stuff at discounted price, in this case my only question is how do you guys determine the value if no one has heard or seen them yet? Based on the number of drivers? features? Sound signature? Material being used? 
 
I'm just curious, if you go by Trinity's MSRP and take the discount off those items would that be the fair market value for such items?
Just trying to understand the logic behind "it's pre-order, hence prices are cheap so we are OK waiting even if there are some delays" or am I missing something? 

I'd say you've nailed the summary pretty good there.
 
Also, how good of a price some of us have gotten things at have realistically fluctuated over the course of all of this and I'm sure some people may be quite angry now that you and I have brought this up; the longer you've been on the pre-order list, the less of a good deal you've gotten and it's all down to the severe drop in the valuation of the British Pound.
 
All some of us have to go on for determining value is by looking at Trinity's previous works. I was part of the original Kickstarter campaign with the Hyperion and Delta and to me, they both punch above their respective MSRPs, not the just the KS price. The simple way to say it really is just faith that the Trinity team does things just like before and even though the MSRP has risen, the value ratio is still on the same track. My understanding is that at MSRP, the products are at least competitive and with the discounts, value should be easily justified. I felt they hit that target with the original round of IEMs, whether or not they continue that trend with this new round of IEMs remains to be seen.

 

[istirsin]

@Midgetguy I like how you see things from both major angles and present the other missing piece to give a more balanced view of the entire situation. 

 
 
@Hi-Fi'erI see. So your point is that the subject is invalid because it's been STATED before. My point is that this subject is being repeated in the first place, because it has NOT been properly ADDRESSED to a conclusion.
 
On a side note, thank you for bringing out your authentic view of the matter and not your class-clown front to hide your true feelings. That is...until I saw that last sentence

 Old habits die hard, eh? You're right though, they're not dumb, and I never thought them to be.
Quote:

There is nothing to argue about. It's all been said and done over and over and over. Why keep rehashing this subject. Trinity knows how we feel. Griping and regurgitating the subject is pointless. They know they get it. They aren't dumb even though all the negative posts here seem to make them out to be. 

 

[Midgetguy]

@Midgetguy I totally agree. We should have the moderator activate the poll on this thread to see how many are truly dissatisfied. It won't be more or even close to the number of orders.

Would still be a waste of time anyway in all likelihood. If you aren't here to say "I have no complaints about the product" because you see nothing wrong, then chances are you aren't here to take a poll stating the same thing. Though I do see what you mean; it would at least show that at most, you're seeing maybe a hundred or so opinions here and demonstrate that there are potentially thousands of customers who aren't present, thus showing the possibility that the pool of people here may not represent those at large.

 

[Midgetguy]

  @Midgetguy I like how you see things from both major angles and present the other missing piece to give a more balanced view of the entire situation. 

Thanks. We all can agree that arguing is gonna get us nowhere. And central to any good argument is a holistic view. We can't understand everything by just considering one side, we have to take everything into account, both good and bad. We'll all be better off if we keep a level head, whether we're happy with the turn of events or not.

 

[Hi-Fi'er]

Thanks. We all can agree that arguing is gonna get us nowhere. And central to any good argument is a holistic view. We can't understand everything by just considering one side, we have to take everything into account, both good and bad. We'll all be better off if we keep a level head, whether we're happy with the turn of events or not.

That's why I said these are not prescriptions we are waiting for and if we don't get them on time we would die. Now if Trinity was a Doctor or a pharmacy, then hell no none of this would be acceptable of course. If this was a cure for cancer and people were on the edge of dying awaiting for a released cure, then hell no none of this is acceptable either. But lucky for all of us it's none of that. We are all happy and healthy.

 

[istirsin]

@Bobtrinity You're a small time company and you're working from the ground up. You've highly integrated yourself into the Head-fi community. You're not massive enough yet to have 10,000 people under you running your company. You're putting in the work and personally dealing with a huge, huge chunk of your company.
 
That is to say, you're killing it! It's honestly amazing the innovations you're putting into place in the iem market and you're deep into the budget/value iem game from the products that you have actually released. You're doing your own thing and I respect anyone with their own business because I know what it's like to run a business. It's not easy and there's always something that could've been better, or a failure totally out of our scope that we try to take responsibility for to the best of our ability. That is my view of you, person-to-businessowner.
 
On the other hand, everything i've said before I still stand with. Was my delivery emotionally charged? Definitely. Did I make up the facts just to prove my point? No. I believe all my points are valid from observing the updates and the posts over time. Just because it's been said before doesn't mean it's not valid. In fact, This is not a murder case and there is no double jeopardy clause.

 I argue that the repetition makes it MORE valid. 
 
It's my job as a customer to provide my own subjective experience to your service as well as offer some feedback, whether that be positive or negative. Just as it's your job to run your company to be able to provide product.
 

 

[Indigo Bob]

  Not necessarily. I won't say you're wrong though because there's as little evidence that you're wrong as there is that you're right. And the reason I say this is because we live in the information age. Social media has the potential to skew interpretations of situations in both good and bad ways.
 
Take any product on the market. It could be a fantastic product for 1000 people, but let's say of those people, only 20 of them give positive reviews and the other 980 didn't review at all because they simply had no complaints with the product. But let's say a further 75 people weren't happy with the product and wrote negative reviews. The product now gets a bad rep because we're more likely to post a complaint about a product rather than sing its praises. What I'm trying to convey is that a few vocally negative opinions can drastically skew the perceptions regarding otherwise great things.
 
There's two ways to interpret the fact that we're seeing these complaints. One is the model I tried to explain above, wherein you see lots of complaints, but they are from a small pool of people relative to the number of shipped product because most people aren't having issues and thus have no reason to complain; these outspoken individuals are all having problems, but they don't represent the majority of owners. The other way to interpret is by extrapolation: this small pool of vocal people are proportionately representative of those that received the shipped product and it's as bad as claimed in most cases. As in, let's say of the 10 people that received a product, 8 indicate it's bad, 2 indicate it's good, and that ratio persists when surveying all owners.
 
Because of this type of inconsistency, I can't say that product dissatisfaction is at the magnitude that you think it's at. Likewise, I also can't say the problem ISN'T at that magnitude because I have little evidence to back up either argument.

I'm not talking about majority though.  I definitely don't claim to speak for anyone with that comment.  But from my observations there have been more individuals communicating their complaints through the thread, that is apparent.  You may say they are a small minority but they are beginning to equal the minority that is constantly praising and defending trinity audio with regard to these complaints
 
Everyone's frustrated...  that's the whole point of the patience...  You don't need patience if you're not frustrated to some degree even if it is subtle...  So whether it be the ones communicating their complaints or the ones proclaiming their patience, ironically both sides are inadvertently agreeing on the unfortunate wait.   That I will say on behalf of the thread, however presumptuously so...
 
I have no problem with patience and I don't need to work in the field to understand the behemoth of a shipping task this is all at once, but I don't like the feeling of getting strung along and I don't think that feeling is off.  But I do understand what seems to be a company burgeoning into their own...  I just hope they don't pick up bad habits along the way.

 

[audio123]

I think if the IEMs were < £100 people would be less inpatient.
But these are £200+ items and Trinity has had the money for a while now so I dont think its unreasonable to want to know details and updates frequently this late into the process. 

thank you for saying this.

 

[audio123]

@mashuto
 I'm aware of what you're saying. I've pre-ordered since August and deliveries were expected in December, and then January, now March. I've been following the threads since then as well. Not to mention the 30% cancellation fee just for being an early supporter? It just looks like entrapment. You can say, "you're getting a discount", but the product has not even been established or reviewed to validate its market price in the first place. What exactly is an appropriate amount of time before one's remorse is justified? I have to wait X amount of months before posting an opinion for it to count? I don't mean to personally attack you. Not everyone (myself included) has loads of iems and this was a chosen investment of one, good pair. Either way, we ordered a product with certain promises that have been flaky on multiple occasions. This situation is not dissimilar from the, "boy who cried wolf" mechanic. The whole idea of the pressure is to actually make sure we DO actually get our products this time. They're not breaking any laws, really, since there was no 100% guarantee. Building trust, reliability, overall customer satisfaction. Am I so wrong for expecting these things? lol

@Hi-Fi'er
 Okay. People have given fair responses outlining their stance on the matter. You, however, seem to purely be here to purposely FIND and make fun of people who provide any bit of criticism. I'm not even gonna try arguing with you. Whatever keeps you happy, man.

another world class post detailing the flaws of trinity audio. Early bird discount to secure the cash first.

 

[wolfjeanne]

Damn, I'm gone for two weeks and suddenly there are literally hundreds of extra posts and there's people talking about shipping?!
What model is shipping exactly? Can't be bothered to go through all these pages...

Also, who'd like to hear the story of how the left part of my PM M4 ended up in a Venetian canal? :/ Yeah, not a brilliant day...