[longbowbbs]

Quote:

sorry to log in here...and i cant help it..but here i go again...as u all guys know me by now...when i hear a comparision of some products which i have some ideas about i cant hold myself .i just have to reply on that...
 
oh yeah...kittycat u will have to wait for ur catnips..am busy

 
oops sorry ...back to my initial post
 
u say u ended up chosing a Plus Sound cable? am curious about that..i will explain this further..
 
not so long ago as i was into the market for a new cable to replace my already good DHC cable for my he400 i had back then..as an inherited side-effect of my trade how i make my living as a procurement specialist i ALWAYS do a little market comparision of everything i buy (not only the products themselves but i also check the company who sells it and even about their reputation and experiences of customers, reviews and so on) ..and then i make a mini TCO calculation in a excel sheet form if possible  (TCO=total cost of ownership)
 
so i went through ebay and all the other canals one has available to search for info (yep also linkedin!)...u know the drill as u probably are a frequent buyer urself....and i came upon a couple of companies who sounded interesting to buy a cable from..to be honest Plus Sound was one of them ..and so was Toxic cables...as were Double Helix Cables and a couple of others..
 
and this is what i found about the difference between a 'regular' occ copper Plus Sound cable and one similiar one of Toxic cable (looking purely at the basics as we professional buyers look at if we cant feel/hear/see it personally) that i will use as an easy reference
 
this is the same cable i found not so long ago on ebay but with updated pricing of today (for honest comparision):
 
Plus Sound lists the folowing 4ft Hifiman copper cable:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-FEET-CUSTOM-CABLE-FOR-HIFIMAN-HE5-HE6-HE300-400-500-7N-UP-OCC-STRANDED-ECHO-/271102370825?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3f1ef5e409
 
it costs $119 for a 4FT cable as we all can see ladies and gentleman..damn i sound like a quissmaster..lolz..,

 
and here is the similiar cable of Toxic Cables that costs almost the same but is 6FT! (so 2 feet extra..my dutch genes are tingling here

) and also IMHO looks a bit classier (but thats personal! as i am sucker for sexy cables).
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFiMan-HE6-HE500-HE5-LE-HE4-HE300-6ft-Cryo-OCC-Stranded-Pure-Copper-Cable-/110947624754?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19d4fe6732

as i already have a quality cable and wanted a real upgrade i went through the options..and i decided to go for the silver and 1% gold option (as i read that that would give a he500 a beautiful full sound) with clear sleeving on the Plus Sound list ..so that extra option (26AWG? as i saw the number 26 behind ur cable) for 4 ft costs another $115, which makes it $234.
 
when i checked Toxic Cables i found this little beauty: 6ft silver cable (26AWG) called the Silver Poison cable which costs $232 (still for a 2FT longer cable then the Plus Sound one)
 
and okay..i admit...money isnt everything.....(remember TCO?) so i checked the rest..and i found a lot more reviews about the Toxic cables and as far i know of i didnt find any about Plus Sound cables (but its possible i didnt check that thoroughly enough..as i said..i am not a professional reviewer.. am only expressing my own experience!!! never forget that!) and when i (to be honest by accident!) stumbled upon the Toxic cables apreciation thread and all the threads alligned to cables and even headphones (and trust me..i spend at least 2 days checking everything out..(i did that as i wanted to spend at least 350 dollars on a new cable!) and all i found was the utmost appreciation and broadest mouth to mouth advertisement i ever saw...i did came across a Plus Sound cables thread though..but only with a few posts..so that was a easy one for me..i get very cautious when not hearing/reading about products or companies (am not saying the products are bad...but i prefer to go with products/companies that have lots of followers,admirors, happy customers and good reviews and so on..u know what i mean)....
 
as far i can see Toxic Cables has made a reputation for building high quality cables for themselves in a very short time as big as u cant imagine! just read the thousands of posts! but i think u already know that as u found this thread urself so i suppose it made u curious also..right?..
 
yeah i know what ur thinking..and no i am not a member of the staff or anything..am not even paid for this (thinking about that...hey Frankyboy why dont i get paid for this?..grrrrr..

.
and best of all ..i am not even english (happy me..oops..) ..i am a dutchman...and u know what they say about the dutch.. WE WANT THE BEST AND PAY THE LEAST FOR IT.... hope i didnt step on any big spending dutch feet now somewhere...by the way most dutch actually have big feet as they are huge

, i meant it ofcourse in spending money! 
 
like me and many others here..am not rich..the rig i have is not supersonic.. and have a high maintenance girlfriend

so i always try to get the best for my buck..and i love it when people love the look of my rig (look at my sexy 337..lolz) when i have visitors.. so a beautiful cable is a nessesity for me (as is its sound!)..so for me built quality, soundquality, esthetics and price (no particular order!) is important..
 
as i said...i decided to have a silver cable with some gold infused to it as it gives best of both worlds of copper and silver cabling and it was within my budget...and regretfully based on the facts i stated out just now the Plus Sound cable came not out as first choice..am not going to say here which came..as this is a Toxic cables thread...as i respect the common rules of NOT POSTING about other brands on brands specific appreciation threads...if i was to post on the Plus Sound appreciation thread i would do the same...as we are here all to enjoy music and respect each others opinions...
 
am almost sure if ur into a new cable again...u maybe wanna try a Toxic cable then...or u just buy one just to compare ur (as u say) special sounding Plus Sound cable (as i see many cable buyers do that!) and sell the worse sounding one..the price is comparitively low..and as far i can see..second hand quality cables are not to hard to sell..even in these times of crisis.

and if ur lucky u can even win one for free..hooray...pity i never win something..no matter what i do..

but hey..i am lucky in love and health

oops forgot...and in music

 
well with this i finished what i wanted to say...again..i respect all opinions of others and i dont in any way wanna put any product or company in a bad light. but i just couldnt help myself in replying when u started saying u preferred another cable brand on this toxic cables thread...as if u knew in advance someone would say something about it..and surprise surprise....i did..lucky u...the crazy guy of the bunch

and i did it my way..a long way..but a nice way...as i am a nice guy...as we all know..

its 5:30am now..am going to bed now.for some 3 hours quality sleep...and then up for work again...if anyone is still awake..enjoy ur waking hours..

..may the force be with u

 
.....and breathe......

 
Good summation....

 

[fuzzyash]

.....and breathe......

Good summation....

ive noticed almost half his posts have some sort of dedication to you

 

[Toxic Cables]

Quote:

This new litz silver wire with the higher than SP gold content that will be available in about 2 weeks, how many strands does it have? I'm actually not sure a huge amount if necessary in order to sound well, but with more strands cables usually tend to be more flexible which is why I'm interested in the number in the first place. I actually wanted to get a cable with the new y-splitter when it's available, but now I'll have to wait till these are out for sure.
 
What sonic difference can you expect between the SP, this new litz wire with more gold content and a piccolino? Does it increase bass impact even more? In theory it should help to reduce crystal boundaries and transmit the signal quicker and (not sure about this 2nd part compared to high quality silver) fewer losses. But how exactly does this translate into sonic differences one can hear when using these cables?

A higher strand count in a similar gauge cable, does not necessarily mean it will be more flexible then one with lesser strands, this depends more so, on the annealing process and dielectric used then the number of strands, I will be keeping the gold content confidential, as this plays a huge part in the final performance of the cable, but i can say, the new Silver Widow does have a considerably higher content then the SP.

 

[longbowbbs]

I'll have to print T-shirts for the fan club!

 

[hifimanrookie]

ive noticed almost half his posts have some sort of dedication to you

Really? Damn didnt know people check up on me
Its just honest respect to a person and products who are one of a kind.. But seriously..if u see on other threads i post..i am dedicated to other brands also..if i have a good feeling or experience with a product or company or person i am not afraid to hide it..but..to be honest..

My dedication posts for toxic cables are more in the league of a 10 th of all my posts

but wait..i think almost all regular posters on this thread..(.yep u also mr! ) have a high percentage of dedication posts on this thread..so frank must do something right..as he cant pay us all off as he is not mr Microsoft himself.. or we are mass hypnotised by the beauty of his products or seduced by the way he reacts or the time he takes to reply to all (YES ALL) of our questions..even the more sillyier ones..we all know that..so yeah its not weird he has a long list of dedication posts..also from me..

damn..i promised myself that this post would be all about neutrality..no dedication at all..u see..even then its hard not to say nice things bout his products or him... Do i need a shrink now?
But seriously... I am very passionate about what i like and dislike its in my blood being a portuguese and living in the netherlands..and i dont keep anything back..u like it or not..and if u check other posts of mine u will see the same kind of posts (hint ...337, he500 and mstage threads) .some positive..and some a bit less..but always with respect!

And with this i leave u be
And we all know..its clearly to see
Franks cables are one of a kind
So just let me dedicate about them if u dont mind
I am just as i seem to be
As We are the leaves and toxic cables is the tree
And as u can see i write this not on the price winning thread.with that ur correct!
As i am not here for winning anything but to show respect
And now i am reaaly going away
But ur more then allowed for here to stay



Toxic cables tshirts? Honestly not a bad idea! Frank could ask some euros for it and give the profit to a charity for helping kids or something..

 

[Fairwell]

Quote:

this is the same cable i found not so long ago on ebay but with updated pricing of today (for honest comparision):
 
Plus Sound lists the folowing 4ft Hifiman copper cable:
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-FEET-CUSTOM-CABLE-FOR-HIFIMAN-HE5-HE6-HE300-400-500-7N-UP-OCC-STRANDED-ECHO-/271102370825?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item3f1ef5e409
 
it costs $119 for a 4FT cable as we all can see ladies and gentleman..damn i sound like a quissmaster..lolz..,

 
and here is the similiar cable of Toxic Cables that costs almost the same but is 6FT! (so 2 feet extra..my dutch genes are tingling here

) and also IMHO looks a bit classier (but thats personal! as i am sucker for sexy cables).
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HiFiMan-HE6-HE500-HE5-LE-HE4-HE300-6ft-Cryo-OCC-Stranded-Pure-Copper-Cable-/110947624754?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item19d4fe6732

as i already have a quality cable and wanted a real upgrade i went through the options..and i decided to go for the silver and 1% gold option (as i read that that would give a he500 a beautiful full sound) with clear sleeving on the Plus Sound list ..so that extra option (26AWG? as i saw the number 26 behind ur cable) for 4 ft costs another $115, which makes it $234.
 
when i checked Toxic Cables i found this little beauty: 6ft silver cable (26AWG) called the Silver Poison cable which costs $232 (still for a 2FT longer cable then the Plus Sound one)

While all of this is true and you also point out a bit later in your freaking long post that you refer to a TOC and not only the price matters you should never ever just compare it like that. Sleeving and using foils costs the cable manufacturer more money (not only in material cost, but it also takes much more time to make a cable).
 
There is a good reason why for instance Frank's new silk scorpion wire costs more money than the unsleeved version, simply because he also has expenses for the silk (while I've seen silk to buy for diy not that expensive this version shown on the pictures of the new silk scorpion wires is of a total different quality ...) and he also needs to spend some extra time for sleeving. The very same goes for foils. On top of that the more layers you use, the more research you have to do on the whole topic regarding side effects such as making the cable not flexible enough, making it too heavy, not being able to fit certain connectors (for instance happens with heavy gauge wire, it's way easier to solder a 24 or 26avg wire to a connector than 18avg and for some connectors it's even hardly possible or at least takes up way more time) or actually even decreasing the sonic capabilities of a cable because you added too many layers of foils etc. Some companies like DHC believe in putting several layers of foils and on top several different layers of insulation. The materials should work together and you also have to put more thoughts into still getting the right sizes from the inner layer to the outer layer of a cable. Furthermore, the metal being used can also offer way more than purely OCC treatment, cryo-treated, soft annealed/tempered and purity come to my mind. Craftmanship, unique cable designs etc just make it even more complicated to compare cables between different companies.
 
Finally there are things (some of you mentioned in your TOC already) such as customer support, quick delivery, custumization, technical advice (e.g. if you don't know which cable you need or would be best for your setup) etc.
 
That's why i personally think your comparision with exact USD prices is not actually that helpful because they don't take into account a lot of things. Basically you take the wire + length and compare the prices.
 
I'm not trying to be harsh here so please don't get it wrong, I do appreciate your effort in trying to get your point across in Frank's pricing model. I'm basically on the same boat as you, I've checked out a lot of cable manufacturers and most of them had way too high prices for what they offer for my taste. The prices will never reach diy prices because obviously you also have to pay for the work, the equipment being used, the organisational effort, websites promoting them, research etc and last but not least obviously some profit. Even if making cables is thing you enjoy most in life (apparently very true for Frank

) you still need to be able to live from it. So there has to be some balance and reasonable pricing (still being able to run the business while not asking astronomical prices).
 
The reason Frank's cable are so attractive is not a single point such as prices (tbh when I had seen his cables for the first time like one year ago my immediate reaction was "pretty good prices but no customization" (because I didn't know back then that his website only showed a small fraction of his cables and there was nowhere stated it is otherwise on the website), "boring designs" (well I had only seen standard black multifilament nylon sleeving which is ultra standard for every audio cable) and not much "research" (no special foils being used, just plain wires->insulator->sleeving->done). So frankly, I thought something along the lines of "you get what you pay for". However, the silver-gold I had only seen for reasonable prices from Mundorf (zendo cables) which Frank offered way cheaper got me really curious. After checking out head-fi and finding cable offers on ebay I realised how wrong I had been with my initial impression. Frank's cables are so attractive because his cables are well-design products in every regard. Yes, you will find a manufacturer with some special sleeving option he might not offer yet, yes you might find a manufacturer that offers ... BUT this will be always true. He offers well-build cables (I inspected mine carefully and I can't find a single flaw), he uses top material (even the Mundorf gold-silver-solder as a standard!), you can basically get every cable you need (just need to pm him about your needs, he will even design you something for no extra cost ... ), his prices are really good (compared to the whole package he offers) and last but not least his customer support is excellent. His waiting times have caught up to the ones from other cable manufacturers (a few weeks waiting time) which is negative for me (at least last time cause my old cable was broken ...

) but totally reasonable since he runs a small company that is just booming a lot lately (same with his updates on his website, with all those new cables etc I understand that it's tough atm to keep up with providing long textual explanations, pictures etc etc).
 
I just wanted to add a note about his customer support and this is a true sign of what kind of person Frank is and what his attitude on running on a company is. When I ordered my SP we had sent each other quite some emails and while I never checked how long the answers took it was from 1minute to about maybe 1hour maximum. That already alone surprised me. Not many companies have a quick response time. I was allowed to pay per Paypal on my wish instead of using the paying option on the website so I had to create no google account. Then I ordered the wrong termination by accident (3.5mm instead of 6.35mm), received my cable and was disappointed cause I couldn't used it (the cable looked so gorgious though and very flexible which I absolutely loved)). So I went straight to a nearby hifi-shop to buy a crappy adapter which only seemed to work half of the time and looked pretty ugly. I wrote Frank an email about the termination (I first thought it came with the wrong one) and Frank realised my mistake and he offered me to just ship it back and reterminate it for no extra cost (yes that is right, no extra cost, because Frank is just such a nice guy, hopefully not everyone is expecting Frank to do free stuff now for them ...) or a venom with a special price. This is what I call customer support and things like these make me come back as a customer at a later time again and again (Once I'm really satisfied with a certain company I always come back if I need something at a later point. Always worked out fine for me this way.). Unfortunately the cable kinda got lost on the shipping back to the UK for retermination when I had decided to ship it back and not having it for some days (that was a hard decision believe me) so I had to wait a bit if the package still shows up or actually got lost and fortunately a friend lend me his cable in the meantime. So I had set on ordering one of Frank's cables again because I got to see his cables in reality and experience his customer support but since there are new cables coming out 24/7 currently I can't decide really on which one. Damn you Frank, you make it way too hard to decide! That's btw the reason I said a few pages ago that I might not be the best to compare the sonic differences between stock on his cables since I didn't have it for too long and could only provide some initial impressions and why I've been so keen on getting information about the new cables until Frank has finished his cable overview.
 
Sorry for this wall of text, but I'm pretty bad at getting a point across in a short and precise way.
 
Sidenote: Will the new stranded silver wire with the higher than SP gold content be available with this new silk cotton as well? I really like the looks of it and I personally really enjoy the feeling of touching silk. I'm afraid that the cables won't be nearly as flexible any more compared to the unsleeved versions. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

 

[hifimanrookie]

And who was saying my post was long? Lolz..u must have same virus as i have..
Seriously..i know my comparision was not completely political correct tco wise..but i only used a few key decision points to keep it simpler..i just did that to keep it readable and less long.. but am glad u wrote this..as its both a confirmation and a supplement of what i already said.
thanks for that..yes ur right..we are on same boat....

.maybe we can join up an write a biograpghy about the 1 year that frank is in business

I always appreciate people being passionate about what they love..and i see u have put toxic cables into ur heart. Respect from me to u..

 

[fuzzyash]

Really? Damn didnt know people check up on me
Its just honest respect to a person and products who are one of a kind.. But seriously..if u see on other threads i post..i am dedicated to other brands also..if i have a good feeling or experience with a product or company or person i am not afraid to hide it..but..to be honest..

i meant the kittycat references lol
great poems by the way!
how long does it take to make them rhyme?

 

[hifimanrookie]

i meant the kittycat references lol
great poems by the way!
how long does it take to make them rhyme?

Oh u mean that crazy kittycat? Hehehe yeah we have some kind of weird posting connection..

Well about the rhymes..to be honest..i dont do a lot..it just comes to me.. I write one line and the rest comes out of my brain..sometimes i have to force myself to stop or otherwise u will have a page full of rhyming...Or i am just plain weird but thanks for the complement. Allthough I am just an amateur..

 

[Fairwell]

Quote:

.maybe we can join up an write a biograpghy about the 1 year that frank is in business

We could actually really do that.

 

[hifimanrookie]

[[/INDENT]

We could actually really do that.

Maybe everyone can share a few words about dealing with frank and his cables and we put it in a kind of biography...or ask frank how he came up starting his own company instead being a diy cable-ist as he was in the past
By the way talking about busy bee himself..he is quiet today..working on ur list huh ?

 

[Fairwell]

Quote:

[[/INDENT]
Maybe everyone can share a few words about dealing with frank and his cables and we put it in a kind of biography...or ask frank how he came up starting his own company instead being a diy cable-ist as he was in the past

By the way talking about busy bee himself..he is quiet today..working on ur list huh

?

Maybe we can open a new thread for this and link it here. Then we set up an introduction (maybe some personal input of Frank/his point of view would be nice here as a kind of intruduction), then some general big steps of the last year and then followed by user histories. So basically that we form the headlines etc and then put in the content others post in the original topic so it's not a total mess but rather a nice longer article.
 
I'm so eager to see the list, I'm starting to get confused by all the possibilities. Even today (or maybe yesterday) I read that he is offering 4 different terminations for the HD800. Since I can't check these infos on his website I'm afraid of missing out on things he is doing and can't decide. I can't afford to get a new cable every day, so it has to be the right one.

 

[cogsand gears]

Nevermind.
 
 
 

 

[hifimanrookie]

Maybe we can open a new thread for this and link it here. Then we set up an introduction (maybe some personal input of Frank/his point of view would be nice here as a kind of intruduction), then some general big steps of the last year and then followed by user histories. So basically that we form the headlines etc and then put in the content others post in the original topic so it's not a total mess but rather a nice longer article.

I'm so eager to see the list, I'm starting to get confused by all the possibilities. Even today (or maybe yesterday) I read that he is offering 4 different terminations for the HD800. Since I can't check these infos on his website I'm afraid of missing out on things he is doing and can't decide. I can't afford to get a new cable every day, so it has to be the right one.

Wow thats a good idea..but first ask the busy bee himself if he thinks its a good idea..as he is unhumanly busy lately..its possible he just dont have the time to write anything because the heap of orders he is facing
And i have an idea about the introduction..maybe we can include a photosouped pic of him workin on his beloved cables..
And about the list..am so confused also because of all new possibilities..if i had the budget now it would be much easier: a copper venom with black silk sleeving or something for my he500's ( dont even know if that exists to be honest) ..but seeing my wallet ..it wont happen soon so my next bet will be one of those other very special cables who are unique in price and quality..

Keep in touch..ru going to contact frank about it or u want me to do that?

 

[Fairwell]

Quote:

Wow thats a good idea..but first ask the busy bee himself if he thinks its a good idea..as he is unhumanly busy lately..its possible he just dont have the time to write anything because the heap of orders he is facing
And i have an idea about the introduction..maybe we can include a photosouped pic of him workin on his beloved cables..

And about the list..am so confused also because of all new possibilities..if i had the budget now it would be much easier: a copper venom with black silk sleeving or something for my he500's ( dont even know if that exists to be honest) ..but seeing my wallet ..it wont happen soon

so my next bet will be one of those other very special cables who are unique in price and quality..
Keep in touch..ru going to contact frank about it or u want me to do that?

I actually thought it might be better to wait for him to check this thread again (which he certainly will once he is done doing the million things on his list). He will read it anyways and most likely will post what he thinks about it. If not, one of us can still contact him for it via email or pm. Until he has time to check this thread again he won't be having time to write up something anyways.

The formatting could be done by us.