[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shahrose, Do you mean that you began to hear the 750 sound stage the way I described it in "The Sound of the Ultrasone Pro (Proline) 750 Headphones"?

no, unfortunately, it never quite got to that level (hearing sounds behind the head and all)

in my initial comparisons to the dt990, the 750s were significantly behind in terms of soundstage. then after ~200 hours i began to feel the 750 soundstage had somehow expanded, and at times, it genuinely felt like i was using speakers (like monitors placed in front of me). so i did another direct comparison to the dt990, and i found the 750s were much closer this time...in fact in some songs, they took the cake for soundstage as they would reproduce more of the ambiance/echoes of the recording room (i guess this could be attributed to higher detail retrieval ?).

overall i also felt that the sound came from more in front rather than the sides compared to the dt990. the sound also had more more depth in the z-axis (directly pointing out of your head ahead of you) than the dt990 while the 990s exhibited a more stretched soundstage along the x-axis (pointing directly out and away from the ears). i'd say the 750s have the more natural soundstage, and also more speaker-like (this is because of the offset drivers imo but i won't get into that now). however, the 990s have a larger soundstage overall, considering their horizontally stretched sound as well as openness/airiness (which also slightly imparts a speaker-like sound to them, but in an unnatural way since speakers are usually placed in front of you and not at the sides)

i want to stress again that i really do prefer listening to the 750s as i find them less fatiguing, more balanced, and technically superior to the 990s (freq extension, resolution, speed), but the sheer comfort and open airy sound of the dt990s makes them hard to sell. in fact, i find that the dt990s get more head-time than any of my other headphones just for this reason.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif no, unfortunately, it never quite got to that level (hearing sounds behind the head and all) in my initial comparisons to the dt990, the 750s were significantly behind in terms of soundstage. then after ~200 hours i began to feel the 750 soundstage had somehow expanded, and at times, it genuinely felt like i was using speakers (like monitors placed in front of me). so i did another direct comparison to the dt990, and i found the 750s were much closer this time...in fact in some songs, they took the cake for soundstage as they would reproduce more of the ambiance/echoes of the recording room (i guess this could be attributed to higher detail retrieval ?). overall i also felt that the sound came from more in front rather than the sides compared to the dt990. the sound also had more more depth in the z-axis (directly pointing out of your head ahead of you) than the dt990 while the 990s exhibited a more stretched soundstage along the x-axis (pointing directly out and away from the ears). i'd say the 750s have the more natural soundstage, and also more speaker-like (this is because of the offset drivers imo but i won't get into that now). however, the 990s have a larger soundstage overall, considering their horizontally stretched sound as well as openness/airiness (which also slightly imparts a speaker-like sound to them, but in an unnatural way since speakers are usually placed in front of you and not at the sides) i want to stress again that i really do prefer listening to the 750s as i find them less fatiguing, more balanced, and technically superior to the 990s (freq extension, resolution, speed), but the sheer comfort and open airy sound of the dt990s makes them hard to sell. in fact, i find that the dt990s get more head-time than any of my other headphones just for this reason.

The first time I ever experienced an Ultrasone headphone, I had never heard of Ultrasone. That first experience was with a Proline 650 which had not been "burned-in" and consequently, to put it succinctly, the sound was kind of high pitched and not centered with an exaggerated bass. There was, I noticed, something unusual about the sound beyond that faulty not "burned-in" sound that made me curious. I returned to that store a week later to hear them after they had been "burned-in" and there was a considerable improvement in their sound.
I was completely unfamiliar with Ultrasone except for reading the name on the headphones. I did not know anything about the so called "S-Logic Surround Sound". I had never even heard of it.
As I listened more and more, I was noticing something which I had never experienced before in a headphone: Sounds outside of my head. At first it was off to the sides and kind of back from my ears. Then, I started hearing sounds in back of my head. If I recall correctly, the first experience of hearing sounds behind my head was a string section in a recording of an orchestra. So you don't misunderstand, I had, indeed, heard headphones with a wide sound stage before but never had I heard a pair of headphones produce a sound outside of my head.
Initially, I would hear featured vocalists or instrumentalists immediately in front of my face or part way into my head and face. Then, later, I started hearing other instruments outside of my head and in front of me. It's a very interesting effect because it puts you right in the middle of the orchestra with the featured instrument playing right to you.
One point I want to highlight here is that I heard sounds behind the back of my head before I heard them in front of my head. So, this is why it interests me that you haven't yet heard sounds coming from behind the back of your head but you have heard them in front of you, initially. There was a time when if you would have asked me if I heard a sound coming from in front of me, outside of my head, I would have said no, but that was only a short period of time when I first started listening to the Proline 750's. Although, I always did hear a featured vocalist or instrumentalist immediately in front of my face or part way into my face and head.

 

[Akabeth]

Mind if I slip in for a few seconds.

My Ed9's got about 325 hours on it and it just keeps getting better and better. One trait I really notice is that the bass is now tighter than before (0 up 'till ~200hrs?). Sound stage and portrayal also evolved a bit according to my notes from 0 hours, albeit these changes are more subtle than the bass.

Ed 9's FTW

More to come.

Edit: some people say these things need to go 800 hours before being mature? If these things can still get better than how it sounds, I'm speechless..........

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif The first time I ever experienced an Ultrasone headphone, I had never heard of Ultrasone. That first experience was with a Proline 650 which had not been "burned-in" and consequently, to put it succinctly, the sound was kind of high pitched and not centered with an exaggerated bass. There was, I noticed, something unusual about the sound beyond that faulty not "burned-in" sound that made me curious. I returned to that store a week later to hear them after they had been "burned-in" and there was a considerable improvement in their sound. I was completely unfamiliar with Ultrasone except for reading the name on the headphones. I did not know anything about the so called "S-Logic Surround Sound". I had never even heard of it. As I listened more and more, I was noticing something which I had never experienced before in a headphone: Sounds outside of my head. At first it was off to the sides and kind of back from my ears. Then, I started hearing sounds in back of my head. If I recall correctly, the first experience of hearing sounds behind my head was a string section in a recording of an orchestra. So you don't misunderstand, I had, indeed, heard headphones with a wide sound stage before but never had I heard a pair of headphones produce a sound outside of my head. Initially, I would hear featured vocalists or instrumentalists immediately in front of my face or part way into my head and face. Then, later, I started hearing other instruments outside of my head and in front of me. It's a very interesting effect because it puts you right in the middle of the orchestra with the featured instrument playing right to you. One point I want to highlight here is that I heard sounds behind the back of my head before I heard them in front of my head. So, this is why it interests me that you haven't yet heard sounds coming from behind the back of your head but you have heard them in front of you, initially. There was a time when if you would have asked me if I heard a sound coming from in front of me, outside of my head, I would have said no, but that was only a short period of time when I first started listening to the Proline 750's. Although, I always did hear a featured vocalist or instrumentalist immediately in front of my face or part way into my face and head.

i envy the fact that you can dedode the S-logic effect the way it was meant to. i'll have to try harder

but then i might end up hearing placebo effects.

quite frankly, the way you've described your hearing, it's quite astonishing (not being sarcastic or anything). that's like all your recordings being transformed to binaural ones.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif i envy the fact that you can dedode the S-logic effect the way it was meant to. i'll have to try harder but then i might end up hearing placebo effects. quite frankly, the way you've described your hearing, it's quite astonishing (not being sarcastic or anything). that's like all your recordings being transformed to binaural ones.

I've found the S-Logic effect to only recreate sounds around the back of my head with particular recordings - I noted it especially on Josh Groban's To Where You Are, which has emphasised cathedral-hall echo. On the HD600's it just sounds like a big soundstage, particularly a very high soundstage, like he's singing in a venue with a very high roof. On the Prolines the echo envelops you completely rather than dissapearing into the ceiling, giving you a 3-dimensional impression of space on all sides.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif i envy the fact that you can dedode the S-logic effect the way it was meant to. i'll have to try harder but then i might end up hearing placebo effects. quite frankly, the way you've described your hearing, it's quite astonishing (not being sarcastic or anything). that's like all your recordings being transformed to binaural ones.

It's funny you should say that because I had never heard a binaural recording prior to hearing the links on Head-Fi. What was interesting about listening to them for the first time while wearing the Proline 750's was that while the outside of the head effect was noticeable, I had heard this same effect, more or less, when listening to regular 2 track stereo recordings such as CD's (when wearing the Proline 750's).
One of those binaural recordings, I understand is somewhat famous called "The Virtual Haircut" (I think that's the right title). The first time I heard this recording, as one example, the scissors while they were clipping were a certain distance from the back of my head. I was wearing the Proline 750's. Then, I played "The Virtual Haircut" again wearing traditional (non-Ultrasone) headphones. This was an inexpensive pair of over-the-ear headphones that has a medium size sound stage. With them, the scissors were much closer to my head and the 3D effect, while still there, was less noticeable.
There was a binaural recording on youtube that would alternate between 2 channel stereo and binaural. When it switched, a sign on the screen would tell you to which you were listening (stereo or binauaral). I'll try to find it and post it later. When wearing the Proline 750's, I could hear a difference but, I was still hearing sounds outside of the head with the 2 channel stereo part as well as the binaural part.
When listening to movies (DVD's), I don't use the Dolby Headphone setting with the Proline 750's because the regular 2-channel setting sounds much more natural or realistic to me and I still hear sounds outside of my head.
In a way, this kind of reminds me of those pictures that on first glance look like a bunch of odd shapes that doesn't look like anything. But, if you stare "through" the picture, you get to see the hidden fish or airplane or whatever.
My point is, maybe you shouldn't try too hard. It might just come to you one day. Some recordings cause the surround sound effect to be more noticeable than others.
You probably already know this but to make sure, make sure the band is directly over the center of your head and, this is all according to Ultrasone, not me, make sure your ears are centered inside the cup. I have found the best position for my ears is where the front of the ear is close to the front of the inside pad which does make the backs of my ears centered within the cup. Again, according to Ultrasone, the backs of your ears should not be touching the inside of the pads. I have been told that different people need to position the cups in different ways to hear the surround sound effect.

Edit: Here is the youtube link of the stereo / binaural alternate recording I mentioned in my post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRih10xLhD8

 

[Shahrose]

yea trust me, i've tried every type of position imaginable.
also, i've heard the virtual barber, it's pretty good. i have a whole collection of binaural recordings on my computer. i actually got most of them off here; a fellow head-fi'er created a massive post with well over a hundred different links to binaural recordings.

 

[Covenant]

I've finally gotten around to writing up my review of the Proline 750:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ult...1/#post4464107

If anyone's interested

 

[genclaymore]

For me with my 780's it depend on how I had the headphones on my head.

Because I kept moving them around til I got the sweet spot. But I finally got them on right.

 

[Peter Pinna]

This post is for the Ultrasone Representative:
In another thread "Ultrasone Proline 750 vs. Sennheiser HD 600: A Comparative Review", there is a question pertaining to the difference between the Proline 750 and the Pro 750. One poster has said that the pads on the Pro are thicker than the pads on the Proline and so, therefore, this affects the sound. I called Ultrasone and spoke with a representative who, after confirming this information, assured me that there is absolutely no difference in the sound between the Pro and the Proline and that the changes between the two are only cosmetic.
At least one poster refuses to believe this is true, contending that if the pads are thicker this would affect the sound and so, therefore, the changes can't be only cosmetic.
So, will an Ultrasone Representative, preferably a tech from Ultrasone who helped to develop and build these headphones please address this question? Is Florian Koenig busy?

 

[flitflint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have never tried the mod as I never felt the need to do so, so can't comment on the possibly positive or negative aspect. There have been people around who tried it though, read up on their experiences or/and shoot them a pm.

I just cut some felt and threw it under the earpads to the 750s.

They now sound manageable out of the Duet... the harsh treble greatly tamed, and they are more enjoyable.

cool

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flitflint /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just cut some felt and threw it under the earpads to the 750s. They now sound manageable out of the Duet... the harsh treble greatly tamed, and they are more enjoyable. cool

I don't know how much you have played your 750's but be advised that they have a somewhat lengthy burn-in duration. And, with no modifications, they sound much better the more they are burned in. I'm not sure how the padding will affect the sound. Right now, I know you said it is improving the sound but after burn-in, it may deteriorate or muffle the great sound of the Pro 750's. I don't know. Let them play every day for about 3 or 4 days without listening to them. I suggest you take the padding out and then, after the 3 or 4 day burn-in, listen to them then and see if you still think the treble is harsh. From my experience with the 750's, you will find the whole sound is fuller and more balanced. The metallic sound from the upper frequencies will disappear. When they are fully burned-in they sound beautiful. My best guess is that full burn-in happens somewhere beyond 300 hours of playing on these headphones.
Also, keep in mind that modifying these headphones voids the 2 year warranty.

 

[flitflint]

I've had these phones for 1 1/2 years. They easily have over 2000 hours on them.

Something about the synergy of the Duet with the 750s brought out a harsh treble. A bit 'o felt evened things out.

 

[flitflint]

Ooooh.

I just discovered this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ult...0-mods-253489/


Very cool. I have to try this!

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, keep in mind that modifying these headphones voids the 2 year warranty.

The mod he's talking about doesn't void the warranty as you don't open up or damage the headphones in any way (when one is clumsy...another story perhaps...

)

Good to hear it worked for you, Flitflint. I should try it one day so I know for myself what it exactly changes.
The amp in the Duet is not the best match for the Prolines if you want it to be musical sounding (mostly because it's not meant to be I guess), imo, and your mod is cheaper than a dedicated external amp