[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flitflint /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Ultrasonistas I have been using the Proline 750s for 1 1/2 years now, and I like them a lot. I recently tried them with an Apogee Duet. Does anyone here use this combination? I found the 750s through the Duet to be unusually harsh in the treble... in a fatiguing way. (by the way, my 750s are fully burned-in.) Anyone have a similar experience? Any suggestions? Like... maybe a recable, or an outboard amp... especially for a good price. Thanks David

depends on the recording. none of my good recordings have even a trace of sibilance...and i have a lot of good recordings. the few bad recordings i have, i can easily spot because they sound compressed, closed-in, and either muddy or sibilant. they are very resolving headphones. sometimes i feel they're dark headphones, sometimes i get the feeling the treble is a bit too peaky, but it's only because the recordings differ. one test i did to confirm this further is listen to youtube-uploaded songs and then the same song from CD's or high quality mp3s/FLAC files. the difference is staggering. i really find there's never any sibilance in any good recording, and if anyone complains of sibilance, i bet you a lot of money that they're either listening to a bad recording or somewhere in their chain a component is adding treble that isn't the recording (not the headphone).

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flitflint /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Ultrasonistas I have been using the Proline 750s for 1 1/2 years now, and I like them a lot. I recently tried them with an Apogee Duet. Does anyone here use this combination? I found the 750s through the Duet to be unusually harsh in the treble... in a fatiguing way. (by the way, my 750s are fully burned-in.) Anyone have a similar experience? Any suggestions? Like... maybe a recable, or an outboard amp... especially for a good price.

Hey David,

I use them with a Duet but don't find them harsh. I do use a seperate amp with them (see sig), not the amp in the Duet. I tried them with the amp in the Duet but it sounded too "compact" to me. Not very balanced sounding. (Forgive me, I'm not too good at describing what I hear or notice, I wish my ears could speak

)
My brother found the Duets amp good for producing though but it's not meant in the very first place to listen to music; it's more aimed at recording and that sort of things. Could be that that's the reason why you don't like it that way. So amping them seperately from your Duet might be an answer to your problem.
BTW: did you already found them harsh before trying with the Duet or was it when using the Duet you noticed this?

@ Flavio: Do a search. There's a lot of info on this subject if you look for it.
I found the 2500 more airy than the 750 but not a whole lot. Soundstage: I don't remember. It's been a long while since I've heard them though so take my comment with a few grains of salt.
I choose the 750's over the 2500 because I needed them to be closed; no sound getting in. Never regretted it though

Some people think the 2500's are better and some the 750's besides the obvious preference for closed vs open. Hear for yourself is the best way of course to know for sure what you'd like the most if you have ways to do so...

 

[Akabeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....... I've been reading through this thread throughout the week, getting some history and background on these 'phones, so I know that these Prolines should still have a fair way to go burn-in wise. ...but god damn, how can they get better? Out of the box they were singularly unimpressive. At about 20hrs they were very enjoyable, but still slightly metallic and glarey. ......

I'm probably having the same thoughts as you right now, but in this case is with my Edition 9. Story is, Ken in ALO did some early burn-in and by now I have put around ~80hrs whilst my Predator have around ~200 hrs.

I'm not sure how these things can sound better than they already are too!

I'm listening through a humble portable setup + apple lossless, so perhaps that may be why. I've noticed their unique sound and all that but they were already 'that' good to begin with.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlavioWolff /img/forum/go_quote.gif guys, this thread is already a big salad, so ill ask this again will I lose too much of soundstage and airiness if I choose the 750 instead of the 2500?

All that is written in this post is my opinion:
You will loose "airiness" because of the closed vs. open factor. The soundstage of the two is very similar. The 750 has a wide sound stage, especially when one considers that it is a "closed" headphone. However, the 750's sound stage does not sound exaggerated in any way. What I'm about to say, falls short of actually experiencing the sound stage but all I have are possibly inadequate words to attempt to describe the idea that, once one becomes accustomed to the Pro 750's sound stage, it sounds very "real". The 2500 has this same sound of "realness", but there is something slightly different in the sound (mostly because it is an "open" headphone) that has to do in a very minute way with a certain infinitesimally (so small it is immeasurable but if one listens very very closely, it is ever so slightly noticeable) larger (as compared to the same aspect of the 750) space "in between" the individual points of sound as compared to the infinitesimally smaller (as compared to the same aspect of the 2500) space "in between" the individual points of sound when listening to the 750's (for extreme lack of a better way of describing this, and, if someone has a better way of describing this, please, do so). Yet, having attempted to describe all of this, I want you to know that with both the 750 and the 2500, there is "smoothness" and "evenness" of overall sound that is beautiful!
Personally, I prefer the sound of the 750. In it's sound, there is (as I indicated before) a sense of "real" spatiality that goes beyond the capable limits of "normal / traditional" headphones (especially closed ones) and yet, at the same time, there is the sense while listening to the 750's that one is in an almost perfectly controlled listening environment.
Here is the link to MaloS's description / review of the sound of the 2500's. I think MaloS described the 2500's sound very accurately:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/rev...2500-a-252836/

In my signature area, there is a link to a thread I created titled "The Sound of the Ultrasone Pro (Proline) 750 Headphones". If you read some of the posts in this thread, you might think you are riding in a roller coaster of opinions, but, overall, it is an interesting thread. The first post in this thread gives a description of an aspect of how I hear the Pro (Proline) 750's sound stage.
Another reason I prefer the 750's over the 2500 (although the 2500 is a very close second) is because of the isolation factor which causes the bass (as it's played via the 750's) to sound really "tight" and "THERE"!! It also gives a very definite and realistic sound to other instruments. And, the entire frequency range sounds incredibly well balanced (I'm referring to the sound of "burned-in" 750's). This is also true of the sound of the 2500. The sound of the bass on the 2500 is not quite as "tight" and "THERE" as on the 750 (I am referring to minute but slightly noticeable differences here).
If you were to ask me my opinion in reference to chosing between the 750 and the 2500, as I indicated previously, the 750 would be my first choice. However, please keep in mind that I very much enjoy the sound of the 2500 but, all things considered, I prefer the sound of the 750. Also, please keep in mind that I have much more experience listening to the 750 than I have with the 2500.
Only you can decide what sounds right to you. Is there a way you would be able to demo them? That would be the best thing to do.
Good luck in finding your headphones.

 

[YtseJamer]

Wait until you have 500hrs on your Ed.9 and 800hrs on your Predator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akabeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have put around ~80hrs whilst my Predator have around ~200 hrs. I'm not sure how these things can sound better than they already are too!

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akabeth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm probably having the same thoughts as you right now, but in this case is with my Edition 9. I'm listening through a humble portable setup + apple lossless, so perhaps that may be why. I've noticed their unique sound and all that but they were already 'that' good to begin with.

So am I, my Prolines are using a Pico as combination DAC/AMP. But I have to tip my hat to Justin's work, the Pico is no slouch in this respect.

So, can I petition Dex to officially dub me an Ultrasonicsta?

 

[flitflint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif depends on the recording. none of my good recordings have even a trace of sibilance...and i have a lot of good recordings. the few bad recordings i have, i can easily spot because they sound compressed, closed-in, and either muddy or sibilant.

Thanks for the response, Shahrose.

Perhaps this was the problem... though not so much the recording itself but what was recorded. To be specific, I was listening to a lossless file of Debussy arranged for Oboe and Harp (the oboe was just piercing) as well as some Couperin harpsichord Ordres at 256k/sec (a sharp attacking instrument to begin with).

These specifically gave me problems, and I attributed it to the Duet, but perhaps the Duet and 750s were just giving me the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey David, I use them with a Duet but don't find them harsh. I do use a seperate amp with them (see sig), not the amp in the Duet. <cut> So amping them seperately from your Duet might be an answer to your problem. BTW: did you already found them harsh before trying with the Duet or was it when using the Duet you noticed this?

Hi Contrastique, thank you. Well, I was using the 750s with a MOTU Ultralite before (which is a lousy DAC and head amp), so I think I got used to the muddy presentation it offered.

Yes, a separate amp sounds like a great idea. Could you recommend a couple of nice ones that won't break the bank? I see you use a LaRocco...


One other thing I thought of was using that "mod" of putting felt inside the earcups, but... as a recordist I would think that it would mess with the Ultrasones' sonic presentation, and would therefore depart from neutrality. A good solution for pleasure-listening, but maybe not for critical attention?


Thanks again.

David

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flitflint /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, a separate amp sounds like a great idea. Could you recommend a couple of nice ones that won't break the bank? I see you use a LaRocco...

I'm not sure if I'm the best person to recommend you an amp...I haven't heard that many. Also, I'm not sure what you're looking for, portable or home amp.
I have yet not tried the Duet with the Larocco, only with my home-amp. I really like that combo. You can find that amp on ebay or the like for very little money, they will go around $100-200 I think, mainly because it's quite old (mine is 15yrs old).
I suggest taking this over to the amp-section and read up on the amps.
Portable amps I enjoyed very much are the iQube & the Larocco and the one I didn't really like compared to the Larocco that is, is the iMove.
But all tried via my Ipod and not with the Duet as the latter has not been in my possession for that long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flitflint /img/forum/go_quote.gif One other thing I thought of was using that "mod" of putting felt inside the earcups, but... as a recordist I would think that it would mess with the Ultrasones' sonic presentation, and would therefore depart from neutrality. A good solution for pleasure-listening, but maybe not for critical attention?

I have never tried the mod as I never felt the need to do so, so can't comment on the possibly positive or negative aspect. There have been people around who tried it though, read up on their experiences or/and shoot them a pm.

Good luck on your search and no need for thanx, you're very welcome

On a side note:
My brother is a recordist/producer (whatever something...) and loved his hp out of the Duet as it gave him a very natural presentation and abled him to hear malfunctions in recordings properly. He used it with the DT990 Pro though as he's not fond of the sound of the 750's which he also owns.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif So am I, my Prolines are using a Pico as combination DAC/AMP. But I have to tip my hat to Justin's work, the Pico is no slouch in this respect. So, can I petition Dex to officially dub me an Ultrasonicsta?

"Ultrasonicsta"?! I thought we are called "Ultrasonics". Why do we need the extra "ta". Wait, come to think of it, some extra "ta" might not be such a bad idea!

"Ta-Ta" until next time!

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif So am I, my Prolines are using a Pico as combination DAC/AMP. But I have to tip my hat to Justin's work, the Pico is no slouch in this respect. So, can I petition Dex to officially dub me an Ultrasonicsta?

Pairing the Pico with any efficient phones is a winning combo. I can honestly say that the AD2k + Pico leaves nothing more to be desired. I'd guess that since Ultrasones are efficient, the same would be true with any of those.

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Ultrasonicsta"?! I thought we are called "Ultrasonics". Why do we need the extra "ta". Wait, come to think of it, some extra "ta" might not be such a bad idea! "Ta-Ta" until next time!

I'm curious... what do you use to drive your 750's? I think that based on that first discussion we had about amps a while back, you'd really like HeadAmp products, being neutral.

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Ultrasonicsta"?! I thought we are called "Ultrasonics". Why do we need the extra "ta".

My bad, 'Ultrasonista' is apparently the correct spelling. Dont look at me, I didnt coin it

Quote:

Pairing the Pico with any efficient phones is a winning combo. I can honestly say that the AD2k + Pico leaves nothing more to be desired. I'd guess that since Ultrasones are efficient, the same would be true with any of those.

Actually I'm not sure how efficient the Prolines are. I know they're low-impedance, making them current-hungry rather than dependant on voltage swing like the Sennheisers, but just how current hungry they are I'm not sure. The AKG 701 is regarded as a very inefficient and difficult to drive headphone despite its low impedance.

That said, the Pico even drives my HD600 well, so its no slouch in that respect. I wonder if Justin ever mentioned an output power rating for it.

 

[Contrastique]

Ultrasonistas it is with the matching pic:

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm curious... what do you use to drive your 750's? I think that based on that first discussion we had about amps a while back, you'd really like HeadAmp products, being neutral.

I have two dedicated headphone amps. My main one is part of a custom built amplification system built for me by a sound engineer. The second one is an inexpensive dedicated amp which I used attached to my office computer's sound card. I use it to listen to music when I'm working on the computer. That amp is the Behringer Amp 800 and for $40 it has a surprisingly good sound. I know it's something of a sacrilege on Head-Fi to speak favorably about an amp that only costs $40 but, IMO, this amp sounds like it would cost more. Naturally, it doesn't sound as good as my main amp which has more of a fullness in it's sound, but for what it is, it's very good.
I will make a note of your "Head-Amp" products suggestion and try to hear one for a comparison and for future reference. Thank you very much for that information.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif My bad, 'Ultrasonista' is apparently the correct spelling. Dont look at me, I didnt coin it Actually I'm not sure how efficient the Prolines are. I know they're low-impedance, making them current-hungry rather than dependant on voltage swing like the Sennheisers, but just how current hungry they are I'm not sure. The AKG 701 is regarded as a very inefficient and difficult to drive headphone despite its low impedance. That said, the Pico even drives my HD600 well, so its no slouch in that respect. I wonder if Justin ever mentioned an output power rating for it.

I won't enter into the technical aspect of this discussion because I think there are others who are more qualified than me to "discuss" these matters. What I will "say" is when I've used the AKG K701 (it belongs to someone else) I had to turn up the volume (out of the same amp) as compared to the volume setting used for the Proline 750 to enable hearing what sounds like the same volume level from both headphones.