[drftr]

if I have to substitute the stock cable with another in my inventory, the cheapest of which would be ten times the price of their unit, then their value proposition is totally lost.

But what if your assumption is false? What if that IEM scales so well you'd never have guessed it as it plays in the same ballpark as a regular IEM the price of your cable does?

drftr

 

[warrenpchi]

But what if your assumption is false? What if that IEM scales so well you'd never have guessed it as it plays in the same ballpark as a regular IEM the price of your cable does?

It's not an assumption though, it's basic arithmetic. Adding a Y-priced cable to an X-priced IEM will in fact result in a pairing that costs X+Y.

 

[Rolu]

My collection is so much more black than gold but I did unbox some gold today! Now to dive in and decide what I feel about the sound!

 

[drftr]

It's not an assumption though, it's basic arithmetic. Adding a Y-priced cable to an X-priced IEM will in fact result in a pairing that costs X+Y.

Yes, but said price combination doesn't say everything about SQ. Pretty sure I will prefer some $300 IEMs with a $2,700 cable over certain $3,000 IEMs with their stock cable. I don't see why one approach would be better than the other in a hobby in which it's all about preferences.

drftr

 

[Simpeler]

My collection is so much more black than gold but I did unbox some gold today! Now to dive in and decide what I feel about the sound!

Congratulations

 

[Stu Paddasso]

It's not an assumption though, it's basic arithmetic. Adding a Y-priced cable to an X-priced IEM will in fact result in a pairing that costs X+Y.

I bought the Mass-Drop K-10 and the stock cable was so bad it ruined the sound. Any cable I put on was an improvement.

 

[mikaik]

It's not an assumption though, it's basic arithmetic. Adding a Y-priced cable to an X-priced IEM will in fact result in a pairing that costs X+Y.

How about a compromise, not the stock cable, but something like ISN or FiiO? I have a SH Socrates, for example. It’s still X+Y<300. I bought the TRN azure dragon from HighEnd and the stock cable apart from being crap, turned out to be defective too (it’s got replaceable terminations, but the 4,4 mm plug is broken). So I was forced to look for another cable. I was quite surprised to hear the difference.

 

[warrenpchi]

Yes, but said price combination doesn't say everything about SQ. Pretty sure I will prefer some $300 IEMs with a $2,700 cable over certain $3,000 IEMs with their stock cable. I don't see why one approach would be better than the other in a hobby in which it's all about preferences.

Ah, okay, I should probably elaborate more on why I'm doing this. It's a little roundabout, but I'll circle back to your point above shortly.

My friend Jason Lucas used to run a FB group called "ChiFi Audio Reviews" where a bunch of people would often cite these ~$20 models as punching well above their weight, with some even venturing so far as to suggest that they could compete with multi-kilobuck units. I'm skeptical of that (obviously) so I decided to pick them up and try them out.

I'm quoting myself above, but that was the impetus of this whole thing.

I spent years seeing various impressions in that FB group, stating that these $20 units were giant killers, and competitive with high-end/endgame/TOTL units. I had no reason to dispute any of those conclusions, especially since I hadn't heard the $20 units they were gushing about. But I can tell you that when I questioned people about which high-end/endgame/TOTL units they had heard, the response was always along the lines of "I haven't, too expensive." In and of itself, that doesn't invalidate their statements, but for me, it does create doubt and diminish credibility.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I think it's highly unrealistic of me to believe that those people will ever end up getting high-end/endgame/TOTL units to validate their lofty claims. But it's relatively easy for me to get the units they gushed about... and I have heard high-end/endgame/TOTL units. And so that's what I'm doing here.

Now, circling back to your point above... regarding those who were gushing about these $20 units, do I believe that they were going around pairing them with $2,700 cables? No, no I don't. So I will not.

How about a compromise, not the stock cable, but something like ISN or FiiO? I have a SH Socrates, for example. It’s still X+Y<300. I bought the TRN azure dragon from HighEnd and the stock cable apart from being crap, turned out to be defective too (it’s got replaceable terminations, but the 4,4 mm plug is broken). So I was forced to look for another cable. I was quite surprised to hear the difference.

lol, guys, look at my sig. I'm a "cable believer." I'm not doubting that cables can make a difference, and sometimes a drastic difference that can make something sound totally bad (looking at you there stock Ronin cable). But that's not my primary concern atm. Maybe afterwards, if I discover that I really like one of these, then I'll roll for fun? But for my initial survey, nope, stock cables for now.

 

[drftr]

Ah, okay, I should probably elaborate more on why I'm doing this. It's a little roundabout, but I'll circle back to your point above shortly.



I'm quoting myself above, but that was the impetus of this whole thing.

I spent years seeing various impressions in that FB group, stating that these $20 units were giant killers, and competitive with high-end/endgame/TOTL units. I had no reason to dispute any of those conclusions, especially since I hadn't heard the $20 units they were gushing about. But I can tell you that when I questioned people about which high-end/endgame/TOTL units they had heard, the response was always along the lines of "I haven't, too expensive." In and of itself, that doesn't invalidate their statements, but for me, it does create doubt and diminish credibility.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I think it's highly unrealistic of me to believe that those people will ever end up getting high-end/endgame/TOTL units to validate their lofty claims. But it's relatively easy for me to get the units they gushed about... and I have heard high-end/endgame/TOTL units. And so that's what I'm doing here.

Now, circling back to your point above... regarding those who were gushing about these $20 units, do I believe that they were going around pairing them with $2,700 cables? No, no I don't. So I will not.



lol, guys, look at my sig. I'm a "cable believer." I'm not doubting that cables can make a difference, and sometimes a drastic difference that can make something sound totally bad (looking at you there stock Ronin cable). But that's not my primary concern atm. Maybe afterwards, if I discover that I really like one of these, then I'll roll for fun? But for my initial survey, nope, stock cables for now.

Totally clears it up so tnx for taking the time. My point was a completely different one than yours so they can still be valid at the same time. We just won't find out soon. Looking forward to your results!

drftr

 

[warrenpchi]

Totally clears it up so tnx for taking the time. My point was a completely different one than yours so they can still be valid at the same time. We just won't find out soon. Looking forward to your results!

Right, exactly. Your point is not only plausible for me, but likely as well. It's just that, well, that's not my immediate goal atm.

 

[mikaik]

Ah, okay, I should probably elaborate more on why I'm doing this. It's a little roundabout, but I'll circle back to your point above shortly.



I'm quoting myself above, but that was the impetus of this whole thing.

I spent years seeing various impressions in that FB group, stating that these $20 units were giant killers, and competitive with high-end/endgame/TOTL units. I had no reason to dispute any of those conclusions, especially since I hadn't heard the $20 units they were gushing about. But I can tell you that when I questioned people about which high-end/endgame/TOTL units they had heard, the response was always along the lines of "I haven't, too expensive." In and of itself, that doesn't invalidate their statements, but for me, it does create doubt and diminish credibility.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I think it's highly unrealistic of me to believe that those people will ever end up getting high-end/endgame/TOTL units to validate their lofty claims. But it's relatively easy for me to get the units they gushed about... and I have heard high-end/endgame/TOTL units. And so that's what I'm doing here.

Now, circling back to your point above... regarding those who were gushing about these $20 units, do I believe that they were going around pairing them with $2,700 cables? No, no I don't. So I will not.



lol, guys, look at my sig. I'm a "cable believer." I'm not doubting that cables can make a difference, and sometimes a drastic difference that can make something sound totally bad (looking at you there stock Ronin cable). But that's not my primary concern atm. Maybe afterwards, if I discover that I really like one of these, then I'll roll for fun? But for my initial survey, nope, stock cables for now.

Wasn't trying to lecture you about cables...lol, your cables are more expensive than my IEMs. Sorry if it came out like that, wasn't my intention.

I was only suggesting a way to level the field a bit. You'll be comparing the dirt cheap IEMS with the most expensive combos. You cannot forget what you've heard, just like those people will probably never try your combos, so the result is clear before you even start. I have some of them, and they are decent, but I think the Storm, Canpur and the likes are pretty safe

For the sake of science though, it'd be cool to do both, stock cables and upgrade cables, amps and not . I'd even offer to help, but this would introduce further variables . Then we'll have the ultimate guide to "giant killers" and what they're worth. You probably have better things to do with your time

 

[chickenmcnug]

It has to do with the quality of the amplifier. And you also would need one that is quiet enough for something as sensitive as IEMs as these amps were typically made for speakers and some HPs requiring watts, not milliwatts. However, once you have found some that work, the bass will usually be ratcheted up, the mids more present and even a clearer or possibly warmer but still more detailed treble. These differences are of course slight, so you need to demo a setup in a good listening environment first. But they are superior to portable amps.

For me, I recommend the Holo Bliss and Uber expensive MK-465. I still prefer HPs on both simply because I have longer cables on them, so more convenient. You could always get an extension cable though.

I have found the Boulder 812 DAC/Pre to be excellent with IEMs as well if you ever see one of them around ( possibly in a 2-channel audio store ). There are many more options I am sure.

Niimbus is also pitch black, no background noise from VEX.

 

[phiemon]

It has to do with the quality of the amplifier. And you also would need one that is quiet enough for something as sensitive as IEMs as these amps were typically made for speakers and some HPs requiring watts, not milliwatts. However, once you have found some that work, the bass will usually be ratcheted up, the mids more present and even a clearer or possibly warmer but still more detailed treble. These differences are of course slight, so you need to demo a setup in a good listening environment first. But they are superior to portable amps.

For me, I recommend the Holo Bliss and Uber expensive MK-465. I still prefer HPs on both simply because I have longer cables on them, so more convenient. You could always get an extension cable though.

I have found the Boulder 812 DAC/Pre to be excellent with IEMs as well if you ever see one of them around ( possibly in a 2-channel audio store ). There are many more options I am sure.

Great, thank you for your comment!

The Holo Bliss is indeed in my radar, otherwise also Cayin's stack. I should be able to test both. I'll get round to it as soon as I find the time. I'm very curious.

 

[Stu Paddasso]

Ah, okay, I should probably elaborate more on why I'm doing this. It's a little roundabout, but I'll circle back to your point above shortly.



I'm quoting myself above, but that was the impetus of this whole thing.

I spent years seeing various impressions in that FB group, stating that these $20 units were giant killers, and competitive with high-end/endgame/TOTL units. I had no reason to dispute any of those conclusions, especially since I hadn't heard the $20 units they were gushing about. But I can tell you that when I questioned people about which high-end/endgame/TOTL units they had heard, the response was always along the lines of "I haven't, too expensive." In and of itself, that doesn't invalidate their statements, but for me, it does create doubt and diminish credibility.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I think it's highly unrealistic of me to believe that those people will ever end up getting high-end/endgame/TOTL units to validate their lofty claims. But it's relatively easy for me to get the units they gushed about... and I have heard high-end/endgame/TOTL units. And so that's what I'm doing here.

Now, circling back to your point above... regarding those who were gushing about these $20 units, do I believe that they were going around pairing them with $2,700 cables? No, no I don't. So I will not.



lol, guys, look at my sig. I'm a "cable believer." I'm not doubting that cables can make a difference, and sometimes a drastic difference that can make something sound totally bad (looking at you there stock Ronin cable). But that's not my primary concern atm. Maybe afterwards, if I discover that I really like one of these, then I'll roll for fun? But for my initial survey, nope, stock cables for now.

Point taken. Would be interested if you do find a legitimate Gaint Killer.

 

[warrenpchi]

Wasn't trying to lecture you about cables...lol, your cables are more expensive than my IEMs. Sorry if it came out like that, wasn't my intention.

No, of course not, and I totally didn't take it that way.

I was only suggesting a way to level the field a bit. You'll be comparing the dirt cheap IEMS with the most expensive combos. You cannot forget what you've heard, just like those people will probably never try your combos, so the result is clear before you even start. I have some of them, and they are decent, but I think the Storm, Canpur and the likes are pretty safe

Actually, I'm trying to keep a very open mind, and I'm totally willing to give those claims a HUGE amount of leeway here. All I can say for the moment is, we'll see! I'm open to being surprised!

For the sake of science though, it'd be cool to do both, stock cables and upgrade cables, amps and not . I'd even offer to help, but this would introduce further variables . Then we'll have the ultimate guide to "giant killers" and what they're worth. You probably have better things to do with your time

Actually, this brings up an interesting point. I was simply going to Mojo 2 them all, since that is the source I'm currently using. Should I test them all with an Apple dongle instead?

Point taken. Would be interested if you do find a legitimate Gaint Killer.

That would be exciting wouldn't it?