The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Apr 29, 2024 at 3:44 PM Post #87,886 of 97,582
To all the coolers who just finished the tour of Supreme V3, what are your thoughts of it? I get the impressions from a couple HF er's it's a decent set but would love to hear what the majority consensus.

I found the weight of the shell to be more problematic than the tonality. It's VERY heavy and the few minutes I spent with it at CanJam it was noticeable.

I heard the tuning to be a little top heavy and bright for my tastes, but it wasn't harsh or offensive.
 
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Apr 29, 2024 at 3:50 PM Post #87,887 of 97,582
Hey guys, my full review of Elysian's Annihilator 2023 is now online here. Crazy IEM this!

Anni23_07.jpg
Very pointed review. I also liked your honesty regarding critical aspects - which somehow seems to be a rarity on other competing websites. You also reminded me why I couldn't like Anni so much after all, and why I won't be buying it again; I have to admit, I already had the thought.

Great, keep up the good work!
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 3:51 PM Post #87,888 of 97,582
I found the weight of the shell to be more problematic than the tonality. It's VERY heavy and the few minutes I spent with it at CanJam it was noticeable.

I found the tuning to be a little top heavy and bright for my tastes, but it wasn't harsh or offensive.
👍
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 3:54 PM Post #87,889 of 97,582
Very pointed review. I also liked your honesty regarding critical aspects - which somehow seems to be a rarity on other competing websites. You also reminded me why I couldn't like Anni so much after all, and why I won't be buying it again; I have to admit, I already had the thought.

Great, keep up the good work!
If you ever think about buying it again, just type in my adress for the delivery! :) Win-Win!
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:01 PM Post #87,891 of 97,582
A little something came today... Also, the leather on this case is just sublime. Like a very high end French suitcase. Thank you @MusicTeck team!


IMG_8578.jpeg

IMG_8588.jpeg
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:09 PM Post #87,892 of 97,582
A little something came today... Also, the leather on this case is just sublime. Like a very high end French suitcase. Thank you @MusicTeck team!



Wow!!! Beautiful french suitcase. Wish they sell a fusang version of this.👍
 
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Apr 29, 2024 at 4:12 PM Post #87,893 of 97,582
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but is the IER Z1R still considered the top bass performer in 2024? I've heard a few IEMs but am yet to come across one with a very strong yet resolving bass. So far, the V16 Divinity has been very good with bass resolution but I can't get it to EQ and still sound clean in the low end. The XE6 sounded a bit bloated to me but I didn't try changing tips on it for the short time I got to demo it.
If you get a chance, please listen to Nostalgia Audio Camelot. That 2 DD is quite special. Something to enjoy along with the Z1R
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:21 PM Post #87,894 of 97,582
Sunday survey-- what is your hobby "Credo"? Which is to say, what are some of the guiding principles or notions you have arrived at or which help inform your journey through the audio landscape.

Here are a few of mine:

1) There is no one "right" way to embrace, approach or enjoy this hobby, and no one right way to appreciate and enjoy sound. What is ideal for one person may not at all work for someone else.

2) The listener, the act of listening, and that being listened to cannot be meaningfully divorced from one another. For this reason all measurements, no matter how elaborate and detailed, will only tell a small part of the story and there will never be a substitute for actually hearing something for yourself.

3) The human ear is the most perfect and only self-sufficient measurement rig there is. One should always listen to an IEM first and look at measurements second, lest the measurements skew your perception and expectation of the sound.

4) Target curves-- universal or personalized-- do not appeal to me. I can appreciate a wide variety of tunings, so long as they are well executed. Target curves tend to homogenize the listening experience and suck the life and soul out of it.

5) Most of what is important to me cannot be discerned from an FR curve.

6) While there are surely elements of both, good tuning is more of a art than a science. I am not interested in a tune-by-committee or algorithmic approach. I want to sense the inspiration and artfulness of the tuner.

7) I respect the rigidly science-based approach to this hobby...but it has never appealed to me personally.

8) The greater the degree one is able to follow their own passions and inclinations in this hobby and not get bogged down by the noise of other's opinions or the fog of hivemind and groupthink...the greater will be their own satisfaction in this hobby.

9) Everthing in the signal chain can affect sound in discernable ways-- often synergy is more important than any single factor. Key differences may not be apparent or jump out right away-- but will manifest and become apparent with repeated or extended listening. I can appreciate good BA bass in the short term, but in the long term something about it always triggers my OCD.

10) It takes a lot of time and experience to find out exactly what you like. Just as no two snowflakes are alike, it's reasonable to expect that no two people's tastes in audio will be exactly the same.

What are some of yours?
Most of my credos are ones that I've internalized over the years, so I don't know how many I can point out and list. I'm with a lot of the guys here who's philosophy basically boils down to, "Like what you like, and don't care what anyone else thinks." But, if I may list a few unexpected enlightenments I've had over the years, they'd probably be:

1) Tastes change: I went from someone who once asked a store clerk, verbatim, "What's the sharpest-sounding IEM you have?" to someone who shudders at the sight of a treble peak rising past the midrange. On a macro scale, my tastes have shifted based on my occupation, what kinds of music I listen to, what I want from my music, etc. But, on a micro scale, they may also shift depending on my mood, or whether or not I have a cold, or where I am, etc. Don't behold yourself to a target curve. Change is inevitable. Embrace it.

2) Tone makes an IEM listenable, but technique makes them interesting: Again, I've oscillated constantly between which of the two I want more in an IEM. But, I've learned that I need both, with tone taking slight precedence. It determines whether or not I give the IEM a chance to begin with, but technique decides how long it keeps me awake. Great technique can't give music soul, and a smooth FR curve means nothing if the listener's dead asleep.

3) I'd take good dynamic range over resolution any day: As much as resolution has been harped upon as this ultimate measure of technical performance, I've discovered that I prioritize dynamics far more. Music, I think, is meant to tell a story, and stories move. They ebb and flow - rise and fall - and it's exactly what dynamics do. Obviously, details also enrich a story, just like VFX do in movies. But, I'd rather watch a moving drama shot on a camcorder than Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon any day of the week.

4) I'd rather save up for a flagship than buy 3 bang-for-buck IEMs at the same cost: As privileged or snobby as this may sound, it honestly makes way more economic sense to save up 4 months for a TOTL you want, than buy 4 $1000 IEMs that strangers on the Internet have hyperbolically dubbed flagship killers. You may not get as many dopamine spikes when the boxes arrive at your door, but you can save yourself 4 instances of inevitable post-purchase regret, as well as the losses you'll incur trying to sell them off on classifieds. You'll also be surprised how much the satisfaction of getting and enjoying a TOTL can kill the hunger for more IEMs.

5) Proprietary technologies mean zilch if you can't hear them: This goes very much in line with the don't buy into hype points that others have raised. When auditioning anything, never think about any of the marketing the brand's shoved down your throat. Instead, listen to it as if it were any other product. If you notice something new or unique, then you can dig the box out of the dumpster to see why. Your listening experience should incur you to find out what tech the product has, rather than the latter influencing the former like a placebo.

6) Driver timbres matter: As I've heard more and more FR curves repeated over the years, what makes an IEM stand out to me now is driver timbre. I've listed examples in the past where familiar textures have turned me off what would otherwise be strong IEMs. And, recent examples like the VE X and the Alter Ego have elevated done-before FRs through unique presentations. So, as much as some people may wanna claim that all an IEM has to offer can be read off a frequency response chart, I personally could not disagree more.

7) Use case over sound, always: No matter how good an IEM sounds, if it comes with a dedicated energizer, or is universal-only, or is heavy, etc... I'll pass.

8) Brands often appreciate constructive criticism more than praise: This is something I've picked up on in my reviewing days. The truth is, 99% of feedback most big brands get is positive. They're often told what they do right, and typically with the same verbiage. Although they certainly want that, what the engineers among them - the builders, craftsmen, innovators - want deep down is someone to give them something to improve on. I can relate to that deeply as an engineer or a musician. "That was great! I really enjoyed it!" is always a pleasure to hear, but, being 100% frank, it also does nothing for my improvement. It gives me nothing to work on. It's why I've ragged on lots of brands' packaging, or lack of accessories, or use of the same drivers, etc. A lot of them actually appreciate that, and we, as consumers, are ultimately the ones who benefit most from it. I must stress that the criticism ought to be constructive, respectful and well-intentioned, of course. So, next time you wanna send a brand a paragraph of praise, it wouldn't hurt to end it with, "Next time, I would love to see/hear _____ in your next product."

9) Define your own happiness: It's so ridiculously easy to feel FOMO over a new product, or dissatisfaction when people don't think your IEM is "the best thing ever," or even discouragement when someone calls your favorite product "rubbish." Recognize that, at the end of the day, none of that actually matters. If you enjoy something, don't let someone else's opinions change that. A brand releasing the successor to your TOTL IEM doesn't magically make it crap. A stranger calling your in-ears inferior can't kill the satisfaction hearing them gives you. Whenever somebody does that, just tell yourself, "It's a shame they don't have my ears." And, if you ever find yourself feeling jealous over someone else's shopping spree, tell yourself, "I'm glad I don't need that much to feel content." Endgame really is what you make it, and no one in the world can change that. In fact, I'm gonna practice this right now and stop myself short of 10 points. :wink:

Actually, IIRC, @Deezel177 had heard both versions?
I have, but I can't say I remember how the universal version compares to the custom. The best I can say is that I wasn't at all disappointed with how the custom sounded after loving the universal. :D

If you really meant to say "etchy" instead of "edgy", what does it mean? Tnx...

drftr
Etchy to me sorta means dry, coarse or hoarse. If a vocalist sings with a slightly dry throat, or they're singing in a heavily-padded room where all reflections are taken out, they'll get an etchy quality to their voice, which we engineers then have to cushion with EQ and reverb. When it comes to IEMs, I'd say etchy comes from a relaxed bass or lower-midrange not supplying notes with a lot of wetness, whereas edgy implies a strong, amplified transient edge from (usually) a low-treble peak.

So weird. Some say they are warm, even dark, others say they are a little bright. lol
The ODIN can be considered warm in that its treble isn't that prominent, apart from a peak in the low-treble for articulation. But, it's also not that warm 'cus it has a fairly-sharp sub-to-mid-bass drop. So, it sorta ends up somewhere in neutral-natural territory. Though, as @chickenmcnug said, it's incredibly forward in the upper-mids, especially compared to its mid-bass and low-mids. So, it has a saturated, upfront, brassy timbre that some people may not enjoy. The HIFIMAN's I've heard tend to have much more neutrally-positioned vocals, for reference.

Many consider it still one of the best in resolution, therefore, can't be dark, I heard complaint about its treble on the other hand.
I don't think darkness and resolution are that closely interlinked. Darkness comes from a reserved treble relative to the mid-bass. But, IEMs with those signatures can definitely be resolving too. (LX, Layla, Xe6, etc.)
 
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Apr 29, 2024 at 4:30 PM Post #87,895 of 97,582
6) Driver timbres matter: As I've heard more and more FR curves repeated over the years, what makes an IEM stand out to me now is driver timbre. I've listed examples in the past where familiar textures have turned me off what would otherwise be strong IEMs. And, recent examples like the VE X and the Alter Ego have elevated done-before FRs through unique presentations. So, as much as some people may wanna claim that all an IEM has to offer can be read off a frequency response chart, I personally could not disagree more.

This concept is very hard for some people to understand.

200.webp
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:33 PM Post #87,896 of 97,582
Etchy to me sorta means dry, coarse or hoarse. If a vocalist sings with a slightly dry throat, or they're singing in a heavily-padded room where all reflections are taken out, they'll get an etchy quality to their voice, which we engineers then have to cushion with EQ and reverb. When it comes to IEMs, I'd say etchy comes from a relaxed bass or lower-midrange not supplying notes with a lot of wetness, whereas edgy implies a strong, amplified transient edge from (usually) a low-treble peak.
never heard this term before and it doesn't seem to be a real word... would maybe use something else to describe it.
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:34 PM Post #87,897 of 97,582
Etchy to me sorta means dry, coarse or hoarse. If a vocalist sings with a slightly dry throat, or they're singing in a heavily-padded room where all reflections are taken out, they'll get an etchy quality to their voice, which we engineers then have to cushion with EQ and reverb. When it comes to IEMs, I'd say etchy comes from a relaxed bass or lower-midrange not supplying notes with a lot of wetness, whereas edgy implies a strong, amplified transient edge from (usually) a low-treble peak.
What he said @drftr. I was too lazy to elaborate earlier 🫣
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:36 PM Post #87,898 of 97,582
Don't know if this is the right place to ask, but is the IER Z1R still considered the top bass performer in 2024? I've heard a few IEMs but am yet to come across one with a very strong yet resolving bass. So far, the V16 Divinity has been very good with bass resolution but I can't get it to EQ and still sound clean in the low end. The XE6 sounded a bit bloated to me but I didn't try changing tips on it for the short time I got to demo it.
It's basically a tie now with the Volür. I had both, they both have the best bass I've heard. It's not just me saying that, multiple people have Said the same.

I sold the Z1R because I preferred the overall tuning of the Volür.

The RN6 is probably up there too
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:38 PM Post #87,899 of 97,582
The ODIN can be considered warm in that its treble isn't that prominent, apart from a peak in the low-treble for articulation. But, it's also not that warm 'cus it has a fairly-sharp sub-to-mid-bass drop. So, it sorta ends up somewhere in neutral-natural territory. Though, as @chickenmcnug said, it's incredibly forward in the upper-mids, especially compared to its mid-bass and low-mids. So, it has a saturated, upfront, brassy timbre that some people may not enjoy. The HIFIMAN's I've heard tend to have much more neutrally-positioned vocals, for reference.
And what do you think about it in today's context? Still a contender?
 
Apr 29, 2024 at 4:40 PM Post #87,900 of 97,582

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