[DaveStarWalker]

LOL

thanks for believing in me

Hi, Piotr,

I'm definitely a hard guy to impress.

Well : call me "impressed"

Impressed for the "good" reasons : mature tuning, balance, real dynamic scale, tones... as a last resort real attention to music, not sound.

I don't care about prices (on the contrary: the more expensive it is, the more ruthless I am) or technologies (many passing and/or cyclical fashions).
Only the results count, musical (realism) results.

 

[Sifo]

Anybody going?

next year

 

[Leto Dal]

I hate to rehash yesterday's post and add more oil to the fire which is dying out, but it's just that I'm still catching up with all the posts in the Watercooler thread and wanted to add my 2c along with a question.

I have expressed my position on measurements in the past, anybody with $99 can get a setup from Ali or Taobao, it's not rocket science. Also, you can't analyze the sound by looking at it with your eyes, you need to hear it. Thus I find both methods complementary (always start with listening first to collect impressions, then confirm them with measurements). With many requests, I began to include FRs in my reviews, and also because I get so many pings about sharing FR when I barely mention a new IEM, I often post it in the Watercooler thread because it is easier than replying to the same question in dozens of messages.

But you brought up an interesting topic of IEMs vs Full-size FR measurements, something I still don't get. There is a lot more consistency in IEM measurements between the portable setup/coupler and while listening to a variety of portable DAP sources. But with headphones, besides a setup being a lot more complicated due to a need for an enclosure, etc., there is so much inconsistency. Again, I'm a noob when it comes to full-size headphones, but whenever I try to listen to full-size cans at CanJam shows, it's like listening to a completely different set of headphones as you move from one dac/amp to another and then try it with a DAP. I enjoyed in the past reading Tyl's reviews on InnerFidelity and looking at his headphone measurements. And found it useful in a relative comparison from the same measurement setup. But, when you can completely change the sound, top to bottom, depending on how much tube distortion you put these through or other coloring or extra power introduced by a source, I feel like full-size Headphone measurements become useless. Am I missing something?

Yep totally with you on over ears. Its even more complicated then IEMs in that regard. And while IEMs messurements still would never give you the full picture of how it sounds, you get at least a very rough idea of where the journey goes.

What makes headphones more complicated - some scale A LOT with different amps and dacs. Susvara is the main contender - it barely has any tonality of its own, its basically transparent reflecting each element of your chain. It will sound very different from with different dacs, yet alone amps. Susvara on Bliss was a different headphone compared to Susvara on Envy, and yet with tubes you would add another variable. And now have fun reading Amirs ASR review of Susvara him trying to run it from his 300 USD chain and coming to the conclusion it doesnt sound and "messure that good". Ooopsie.

In the same time, aside of RAAL stuff, headphones rarely react to cable rolling as much as IEMs and I dont even know if cable impact on the tonality can be messured that well? And yet cables are integral component of our IEM setups, some of us are ready to throw thousands on and barely anyone who tried higher end cables with IEMs would deny of how impactful they can be sonically.

 

[PinkyPowers]

Hi, Piotr,

I'm definitely a hard guy to impress.

Well : call me "impressed"

Impressed for the "good" reasons : mature tuning, balance, real dynamic scale, tones... as a last resort real attention to music, not sound.

I don't care about prices (on the contrary: the more expensive it is, the more ruthless I am) or technologies (many passing and/or cyclical fashions).
Only the results count, musical (realism) results.

Piotr knows his stuff!

 

[thaslaya]

Cross posting from Discovery thread:

A friend is looking for a warmer iem with great subbass and intimate female vocals in the $800-1200 range. Definitely outside of my usual budget tier so any suggestions would be great for me to pass along. Thanks!

 

[theintention]

Cross posting from Discovery thread:

A friend is looking for a warmer iem with great subbass and intimate female vocals in the $800-1200 range. Definitely outside of my usual budget tier so any suggestions would be great for me to pass along. Thanks!

have you heard the word of the blue bird, Szalayi

 

[fidgeraldo]

Cross posting from Discovery thread:

A friend is looking for a warmer iem with great subbass and intimate female vocals in the $800-1200 range. Definitely outside of my usual budget tier so any suggestions would be great for me to pass along. Thanks!

Kinera Nan-na 2.1 Z-tune...sweet as candy

 

[kaeswiss]

Cross posting from Discovery thread:

A friend is looking for a warmer iem with great subbass and intimate female vocals in the $800-1200 range. Definitely outside of my usual budget tier so any suggestions would be great for me to pass along. Thanks!

Musicteck has the Elysian Diva currently on sale for $1279. You might be able to find it in the classifieds for under $1200 too.
Great sub bass
Intimate female vocals

 

[linux4ever]

Just curious if you think that Storm is the best, why have you decided to part with it, mind sharing?

Looks like a tour unit for 2 weeks. So it has to be passed onto the next person in line.

 

[bandari]

For me I would only assume the engineers are only normal EE or related background normal workers like me. We do not need to like what we do, just deliver the task the boss given.

Maybe most of them they just make sure the curve and other acoustic and scientific measurement is good on dev products or retailing products as their JD needs. As a engineer job, it would be easy for work with believing scientific measurement matters most, most cables are not measurable with impact towards popular curves under the system but with its own physical features. I would be inclined to get the easy solution that from engineering side the basic electrical wires would be the same for products. They do not have to be blamed or fully credit for if a measurement good product sounds good to clients or not, neither on a cable matches or not.

For the aspect on whether the sound signature or tuning is good or not, usually is decided by the very small group of people, they just need to have popular taste or special sensitivity in tuning, and they do not have to be the engineering at all. For cables choose in retailing products, usually among those people as well as marketing, pricing/expenses control guys. They all do not have to be engineer at all. I do not think most of us need to blame ourselves if we do not like the sound or design combo in retail and would find 'upgrade plan' with the extent for whether we know the original design or we are more professional than the engineers. They are not artist, we are just consumers to get the 'truth' or enjoy to the journey via simple and realistic business behavior. For me, only the eyes, ears and wallet matter, lol.

Still back to the Aroma jewel topic, the original combo just not sounds right at all under that TOTL price range to me. I would not pay it to support such final tuning in the retailing combo for original price point as a cable believer. Actually those people who would like to rolling cables to make it 'look' or sound better gave it a second life and help make it popular and acknowledged among the TOTLs, otherwise it would be trashy to me, personally. I do acknowledge it sounds and look as special TOTL w/ Cross Lambda Apollo or PW Orpheus.

Considering the cable synergy in retailing combo, whether someone could hear/believe it or not, or it feels or looks better or not. I would simplify it as the magic for the cost under the manufacturer aspect. If a sound/look okay combo is with cost or external brand that I would not like to add into this product, should I do it or not? For me, I would assume most manufactures would just provide an basic match combo experience to their customers, with least expense as production, but it should at least be not trashy to its 'majority' clients. We could find brands like Elysian choose to not even include the cable for their entry level products. It is unfinished or a good explorer starting point? The debate might not matter to me, but we could know if we could use our own budget to make it sound good enough to enjoy in our music journey or not.

Cheers to the music or the Hifi process.

 

[Animagus]

Using PMG Audio APX to check out the new Pearl Jam Dark Matter record. Sorry for the bad photo. I'm in my bed with just the night lamps on, ready to crash after listening to the record. Just saw it in the new releases section and couldn't wait for tomorrow.

 

[FcConstruct]

Just curious if you think that Storm is the best, why have you decided to part with it, mind sharing?

Oh the answer is simple. It's not mine LOL. I was borrowing it as part of a private tour. I can't afford one

 

[RBYRER]

Deleted

 

[Dsnuts]

Newest from Penon. 2X8mm dynamics for bass, 2X Sonon BA for mids, 2X Sonion BA for trebles. 4X ESTs for ultra highs.
Absolutely spectacular on the PB5 amp.

 

[Sifo]

Got back from a little meet in Toronto with @dleblanc343 and a few other folks here from the watercooler thread and outside of it.
And when I say "little meet", I mean there was a lot of great gear there, including the Subtonic STORM that I handed off.

Any way, here are some quick impressions of the gear that I got to try at the meet (in order). Thanks to everyone for bring them over.
As usual, these are first impressions not a proper review. Take with several grains of salt.

1. Aroma Fei Wan

• Great IEM, very enjoyable. Slight driver flex upon insertion.
• Bass is tight and resolving. Quite a bit more midbass punch and presence compared to subbass heft and decay.
• Upper mids in the vocals can be a bit forward and shouty.
• Nice treble response. Hats and cymbals are splashy and can be a bit too crisp but it doesn't feel unbalanced.
• Superb sense of coherency and spaciousness.

2. Noble Ronin

• Very lukewarm about this IEM. It feels like I've heard something like this many times before.
• Quite a bit on the warmer side, personally would prefer a bit more upper mids/lower treble to balance out notes like the crack of the snare and give it that tighter transient snap.
• The only thing that really stood out for me is that it has some good grit and texture in it's bass. Some good physicality. But not enough to elevate it beyond other similar IEMs.

3. Noble Ragnar

• Coming from the Ronin, this was a complete 180.
• Bass feels rather light, especially on tracks where I'm expecting a big bass drop.
• I was a fan of the treble. Crisp without being overdone. But there are some peaks that can be needle sharp, especially for vocal sibilance. It's not really painful or anything, just something I'll notice like "Oh there's a very very thin peak here".
• Good resolution, I can pick-up a lot of "trailing ends of tones", to borrow a phrase I hear often.
• Overall, it comes off as lean sounding. I prefer it to the Ronin mostly because it's a bit of unique IEM in the higher-end space. It feels like many IEMs are leaning towards that warmer sound nowadays.

4. Custom Art Fibae 5

• Really bassy. But has nice definition and punch.
• Nice instrument separation and layering. Vocals are pushed slightly forward in the stage.
• Treble can be a bit exaggerated.
• Good coherency.
• I liked this IEM quite a bit.

5. FiR XE6

• In my first attempt with it, I only had one word: Mud. Upper mids are extremely depressed, especially for pianos and snares. It's like it's been overcooked in warmth.
• In my second attempt with it, I tried it with the Eletech Ode to Laura cable. I'll note I'm not much of a cable roller but this one seemed to make a difference. The first thing I noticed was that I had to turn the volume down. The Eletech cable seemed to make everything much louder. The second thing I noticed was that there was definitely more definition to the XE6 despite still having the same level of warmth. Quite a bit more palatable, and probably enjoyable with more time and brain burn-in. But still not my cup of tea.

6. Vision Ears VEX

• Other than the STORM, this was the IEM I've been most excited to hear. I heard the prototype red and blue versions in CanJam NYC 2023 and really enjoyed both. So I was very much looking forward to revisiting the final release.
• Unfortunately, this was quite a disappointing listen. Warm sounding with quite a lot of lower mids blooming. Bass definition can be sometimes good and there's some texturing present, but that bloom really hampers it, especially without the treble energy to balance it out.
• Female vocals and brass instruments can be a bit too forward and shill, probably a bit too much around 5 - 6 kHz.
• Bass guitar lines are the standout though. They sound tight.
• In the end, I don't think is a bad IEM. Just disappointing compared to my memory of being impressed the first time I heard the prototypes.

7. Custom Art Fibae 7U

• Didn't have a ton of time with this one but I thought it was similar to the Fibae 5, just not quite as V-shaped.
• The treble is strangely "click-y" with the hats though. Usually I'm fine with this to some extent but the 7U crosses the line to being rather unnatural.
• Prefered the Fibae 5

8. Sony IER-Z1R

• I've heard the Z1R a couple times before but wanted to revisit it again after a long time.
• The first tips I used were the AET07 small which had a killer upper treble peak. But I swapped out to some AZLA Sedna mediums and that took care of the problem.
• There isn't as much of a subbass rumble and decay. It's more of a deep punch. Still quite a nicely dynamic bass response and a benchmark for high end bass.
• Layering and positioning is excellent.
• Midrange has some weirdness going on.
• I've liked the Z1R in the past and still do, but I don't think I've ever really loved loved it. My revisit here reminds me of that.

9. Elysian Audio Anni 2023 (Titanium)

• I've heard Elysian's products a few times and they tend to have a certain house sound that's excellent for my type of music - energetic rock.
• So of course, I enjoyed this one too. The bass has a great explosiveness, but unlike some of the other Elysian IEMs, this one is very well rounded with a lot more depth and body. The dynamics here are excellent.
• The treble is coherent; crisp without being peaky. It does sound brittle to me though, with a sort of "splayed" nature where hats and cymbal notes break up towards the end of their decay.
• Excellent resolution.
• Vocals can be sibilant and too forward, especially for female vocals.
• Good stage depth and imaging.

10. Vision Ears EXT

• Lots of physicality in the bass while still being punchy with more subbass heft rather than upper/mid-bass punch.
• Fit can be custom-like if you use shallow times, but the body does press against my ear.
• Treble is crispy and peaky. But it's more of a series of micropeaks rather than a few massive peaks that destroy your ear.
• Definitely on the warmer side. Pretty nice staging, but not a ton of depth. Feels more centered and slightly in front of my face.

11. Subtonic STORM

• I had the STORM for a bit over two weeks but didn't have much time to listen to it because of work. Gave it as much time as I could before this meet. And to close the night before it fully left my hands, I gave it one last listen.
• Unquestionably, it is still the best IEM I've ever heard and easily the one I would take over everything I've heard.
• It has no gimmicks - no oddities in its tuning to niche itself with a certain crowd. It's one of the best tuned "generalist" products I've heard.
• I'll put out a full in-depth written review in the coming weeks but suffice it to say, the three things that stand out to me with the STORM are: 1) Thunderous dynamics; 2) Superb midrange resolution and timbral control; and 3) Near perfect layering and coherency.
• I'd consider it 2-steps above everything else. Part of that is because of its extremely agreeable tuning that not every IEM has, but mainly because I think what it does in terms of technical performance altogether just outclasses everything else. Some IEMs might compete with it in some aspects, but not all at once. Hence, 2-steps above.
• In my mind, the STORM doesn't compete with IEMs. If you want the best, you buy the STORM. The STORM competes with things like vacation trips to Japan.

Bonus: DUNU Glacier

• I have a DUNU Glacier that I was going to review before the STORM, but obviously deprioritized it. Brought it to the meet along with the DUNU Mirai for folks to try.
• The Glacier seemed to get quite a bit of love for its bass performance and upper mids presence.
• I'm personally still trying to suss out my thoughts on it cause I have mixed feelings BUT the one thing I will say is that the size and shape of the Glacier will be a deal breaker for anyone looking into this IEM. It's ungodly large.

And that's it! Once again, thanks everyone who managed to come by and share in the love of gear! You know who you are (don't wanna tag in case they'd like to keep it private).

Glad you liked the F5. I also prefer it to F7U. I have both CIEM and UIEM of F5 and can say that the CIEM performs better for me, probably something that could also be accomplished with more tip rolling but obviously that's not my thing. Even more coherent, tames the treble exaggeration but still has an odd tonality to it (but charming!), more realistic staging while retaining its width. It's a unique IEM for sure but very fun.

The Glacier... is good for certain genres of music. It's either really really good or really bad lmao. I'm glad you brought it.