[warrenpchi]

To prove your point to the max: The 2 IEMs that have my interest are Volür and Onyx...

drftr

Hmm, you didn't like Noble's Spartacus? Granted, it's not DD, but I felt that the dual BCDs did a pretty good job with the low end. In fact, I remember thinking to myself Joop might like this one!

What makes headphones more complicated - some scale A LOT with different amps and dacs.

I remember trying to convince @eruilluvitar that the LCD-5 (which we both have) has great bass and plenty of it. Now, granted, it took an audition on a Wells Audio Headtrip to convince him, and that amp is descended from an integrated putting out 50 wpc, but I wasn't wrong.

 

[vaporsynthwave]

I regret being too impatient to wait and listen to STORM at CJNY, that booth was swarmed every time I passed by. Although it falls into the same tier as things like the new UM releases and Rhapsodio Supreme v3 where I hope I don't love them for my finances' sake

 

[aaf evo]

I regret being too impatient to wait and listen to STORM at CJNY, that booth was swarmed every time I passed by. Although it falls into the same tier as things like the new UM releases and Rhapsodio Supreme v3 where I hope I don't love them for my finances' sake

On the other hand I regret trying to again right before I was about to leave for the airport...

 

[admiralnorman]

From your signature, it seems that you are heavily leaning on the full size headphones. Withe IEMs you got, I would suggest that RS6 is good enough for you, you should invest on better IEMs. However, if you use RS6 for headphones, I am not sure if it is a such a good idea.

I went up to the $1k level of IEMs with a few different things and really loved the sounds, but I started running into fitment issues. Etymotic is too deep, but almost everything else is too shallow or falls out. The longer nozzle on the Kato is perfection, so I've landed there. I would be open to others though.

The Rs6 has a lot of utility beyond portable. I love that it can be any step in a stack, and at a very high level. And yeah, works well with most over ears too.

 

[stacey]

Indeed. When I said I want to hear it I was not joking. I was just making my observation so far about DD vs BA in regards to bass.

In itself, the bass is great. It’s not the elevated impactful bass that you’ll find in some basshead setups like the Trifecta ,Titan, or any modern EE IEM but I’d say that it doesn’t leave me wanting for more.

 

[PixelSquish]

In itself, the bass is great. It’s not the elevated impactful bass that you’ll find in some basshead setups like the Trifecta ,Titan, or any modern EE IEM but I’d say that it doesn’t leave me wanting for more.

I think there is a misunderstanding that great quality bass means basshead. It's totally incorrect. Great bass is about quality to go along with the right quantity. If you truly want the best QUALITY bass, it has to be a DD. Now I'm not saying BA bass sucks at all, but if you are a connoisseur of each sound frequency, this is just a fact with DD vs BA if they are both high quality - DD wins. I've heard some good and impressive BA bass, it's come a long way, but it's definitely missing something - that sense of presence and impact a great DD can imbue. I'm by no means saying every very good IEM needs a DD or it doesn't qualify as very very good, obviously they can sound very very good and work for a lot of people. I'm just saying, mostly based on a big review site calling that IEM the greatest ever I think? To me this has to be automatically wrong, because if you are definitely not the best in one of the three major sound frequency ranges, you can't be the overall best.

 

[salwani8888]

I used to hate on DAPs. But I took in a HiBy rs6 on trade and now that I have it I don't think I can live without it. I'm getting close to selling all my other portable sources. All i have left are the btr7, cayin ru6, and HiBy fc6 anyways, but still. the rs6 is so so good. has anyone A/B compared it to the new rs8? looking at specs it seems like it's not much of an upgrade at all.

RS6 is a very good but warm DAP whilst RS8 veers to more neutral. RS8 has more detail overall but for me the biggest difference was in the amp section - RS8 amp (esp in Turbomode) is more dynamic, bass/subbass is cleaner and offers better control of drivers. Imaging separation and soundstage is also better on RS8.

 

[paggio]

That's true, but this is one of those cases where a proprietary connector is actually necessary for its design. It's an IEM with an active crossover, meaning the signal from your DAP or source isn't divided into lows, low-mids, mids, highs, etc. inside the IEM like usual. Instead the signal goes into that huge board pictured in the article, it's split into 5 (lows, low-mids, mids, highs and ultra-highs, according to the flow chart) via filters, then each portion is individually-amped and sent to the IEMs. So, the IEMs need at least 5 terminals to receive those 5 different signals from the crossover box, not to mention ground and what-not. You can't do that with the 2 channels of 2-pin, MMCX, etc. So, Brise had to make their own standard here.

At the end of the day, it's a design decision they made for their product's needs. Whether or not it even has any advantages over standard passive crossovers is another matter entirely. I do appreciate the ambition, and I look forward to hearing it at some point in the future.

Yes, but in other hand we've got these two guys, that have inside:
1 11,5mm dynamic driver
1 8mm AMT driver
1 MEMS driver
2 Sonion EXT drivers
Without crossover and additional amplification.
They provide one of the most addicting Mid's presentations I've ever listened in my life with iems.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Given how over-confident these guys tend to be with respect to measurements and what is contained in FR curves I would be very surprised if this were actually true for someone who wasn't pre-committed to some sort of audio nihilism, measurement extremism or some other requisite ideology. On a related note the DD vs. BA thing is another of those topics that will forever vex this hobby. Every so often, for time eternal it seems, someone will claim that such and such BA set has finally bridged the gap and become indistinguishable from a DD (to the ear, not the measurement rig)...and this claim has not yet once been true, not even with STORM (which does have great bass...bit is unmisakably BA bass).

If you were convinced there is a real difference, why be skeptical that there would be a measurable difference?

1. Take measurement of a DD and a BA set normally
2. Punch a leak in the measurement rig (probably through a hole in the eartips)
3. Take measurements again

The difference will be obvious.

 

[linux4ever]

RS6 is a very good but warm DAP whilst RS8 veers to more neutral. RS8 has more detail overall but for me the biggest difference was in the amp section - RS8 amp (esp in Turbomode) is more dynamic, bass/subbass is cleaner and offers better control of drivers. Imaging separation and soundstage is also better on RS8.

Yes. RS6 doesn't sound neutral and has average resolution, even in comparison to Sony WM1AM2 which is in the similar price category.

 

[o0genesis0o]

If you were convinced there is a real difference, why be skeptical that there would be a measurable difference?

1. Take measurement of a DD and a BA set normally
2. Punch a leak in the measurement rig (probably through a hole in the eartips)
3. Take measurements again

The difference will be obvious.

I'm planning to run an experiment using the R4: get a single DD set, a hybrid set, and a full BA set (I have no EST set here, unfortunately) and use the system-wide PEQ and my measurement rig to tune all of these to exactly the same target up to 6kHz, adjust by ears the treble, and then compare the sound and see how it goes.

My hypothesis is that they would have exactly the same tonal balance and tonality, but timbre of the midrange and physical tactility of the bass would be different. Depending on the leakage of the shell design, the openness of the soundstage would likely be different as well.

Now, which IEM should I use ... maybe the Project ACE, the Elysian Gaea, and 64 Audio U12T. I guess the U12T with 4 Sonion vented woofers would have the most headroom to catch up with the DDs.

 

[PixelSquish]

I'm planning to run an experiment using the R4: get a single DD set, a hybrid set, and a full BA set (I have no EST set here, unfortunately) and use the system-wide PEQ and my measurement rig to tune all of these to exactly the same target up to 6kHz, adjust by ears the treble, and then compare the sound and see how it goes.

My hypothesis is that they would have exactly the same tonal balance and tonality, but timbre of the midrange and physical tactility of the bass would be different. Depending on the leakage of the shell design, the openness of the soundstage would likely be different as well.

Now, which IEM should I use ... maybe the Project ACE, the Elysian Gaea, and 64 Audio U12T. I guess the U12T with 4 Sonion vented woofers would have the most headroom to catch up with the DDs.

why would you get a single DD set when you are comparing a set that uses multiple drivers for each frequency? I would take that out. It has to be a hybrid set known for excellent bass as well. The Gaea is not that at all. Nothing Elysian has put out so far is known for great bass really. Just because something HAS a DD means nothing. I've heard bad DD bass that sounded worse than BA bass. You have to use a great hybrid DD bass IEM.

 

[o0genesis0o]

why would you get a single DD set when you are comparing a set that uses multiple drivers for each frequency? I would take that out.

People take DD as gold standard for “coherency”. I want to test that claim as well.

You know what, let’s throw a planar IEM in. I just remember that I have one two lying around.

 

[Not so fat head]

Yep totally with you on over ears. Its even more complicated then IEMs in that regard. And while IEMs messurements still would never give you the full picture of how it sounds, you get at least a very rough idea of where the journey goes.

What makes headphones more complicated - some scale A LOT with different amps and dacs. Susvara is the main contender - it barely has any tonality of its own, its basically transparent reflecting each element of your chain. It will sound very different from with different dacs, yet alone amps. Susvara on Bliss was a different headphone compared to Susvara on Envy, and yet with tubes you would add another variable. And now have fun reading Amirs ASR review of Susvara him trying to run it from his 300 USD chain and coming to the conclusion it doesnt sound and "messure that good". Ooopsie.

In the same time, aside of RAAL stuff, headphones rarely react to cable rolling as much as IEMs and I dont even know if cable impact on the tonality can be messured that well? And yet cables are integral component of our IEM setups, some of us are ready to throw thousands on and barely anyone who tried higher end cables with IEMs would deny of how impactful they can be sonically.

Keep in mind, studies have shown, the inner anatomy of the human ear is infinitely variable between each of us. No two people have the same inner ear construction. It would seem we all hear any IEM slightly to dramatically different…
I personally need to EQ every headphone I own, of any type, with the craziest curve being the iSine 20’s.. I did get them to sound pretty good.

 

[PixelSquish]

People take DD as gold standard for “coherency”. I want to test that claim as well.

You know what, let’s throw a planar IEM in. I just remember that I have one two lying around.

that would be interesting, sounds cool. But you still shouldn't use the Gaea, you need a hybrid IEM known for excellent quality bass. not quantity. Elysian is known for neither. So no EE Bravado stuff either on the flip side.