[Rockwell75]

Thank you for the chart.

I listened to both the Raven and Anni on separate occasions and the chart mirrors my impressions:

1. the Anni has a lot of treble energy and that sort of dwarfed over its bass
2. the Raven indeed is less bright and that allows its bass to shine through. In fact, I feel that the song/music is very well supported by the bass which seems to be an everflowing stream, probably the work of the DD and BCD

Personally, I wouldn't have thought the Raven and Anni shared the same tuning based on just listening alone. They have 2 different personality based on tonalities. To my ears, Anni is bright and Raven more balanced. Of the 2 I prefer the Raven's signature. The problem is, as some Coolers have already alluded to, the Raven despite being a very well executed and good IEM, it is just not outstanding enough to warrant a purchase for me. It is a good but yet "ordinary" IEM (please note the quotation marks). I prefer the Odin to the Raven. And if I could only own one out of the 2, Anni or Raven, I would choose the Anni. Throwing the Odin into the fray, it would be the one I'd pick up.

As usual YMMV.

Have you heard the Fei Wan by any chance? I love the Annihilator-- in particular the energy and articulation in the upper frequencies. The bass always wound up being a bit of a let down for me (though I know many don't have this issue...YMMV) but in Fei Wan I found an IEM that takes most of what I love about something like the Annihilator (but not everything), adds some of its own imaging secret sauce and most importantly a thoroughly satisfying bass response. I agree about the Raven. I heard it a few times in SoCal. I found it quite source picky (sounded super engaging and dynamic through one, but flat and dull through another) but on the whole nothing about it really grabbed me or stood out in my mind later. I'm looking forward to revisiting it in NYC.

I found that with music genres like oldies and orchestral soundtracks, there is really no IEM that can do it all perfectly. They are just so different.

As I mentioned earlier, with some of these busy soundtracks, I will want more upper mids and less lower mids, give the different instruments as much room as possible. These tracks often straddles the fine line to hit the balance that allows you to hear everything while utilising many instruments to create the atmosphere. A warm or dark sounding set of IEM can easily break this balance and end up sounding mediocre.

Violins are often used to carry the melody and convey emotions in a track. With dipped upper mids, you can’t provide enough energy for them, which can potentially kill half of the track. Similar applies to vocals.

I think with vocals it can go both ways. A number of my favorite IEMs have dipped upper mids but very satisfying vocals. That said I tend to fixate more on male vocals than female vocals, which I don't listen to as much on the whole. I tend to have the opposite issue with many IEMs-- my two biggest deal breakers (apart from bass quality) are not enough meat in the mid bass and too much energy in the upper mids. As others have said recently so much comes down to the sort of music we listen to and what we tend to focus on within that music.

This approach goes directly against oldies. Take the Carpenters - Only Yesterday for example. It has a rather intense upper mids energy, especially in the chorus. Those upper mids boost and lean lower mids that worked for soundtracks will make this song very shouty. Not a good time if you are sensitive to that region of sound.

CFA’s house sound on the other hand, is close to perfect for these. You get the warmer and larger sound that fills all the space, allows you to focus on the texture of the notes — something that the leaner reference sounding set simply cannot compete.

Probably why these IEMs are controversial.

I could see that...but I also think CFA tends to get a lot of unfair animus from sections of the audio community when really what they're doing is just playing to a different niche. Pound for pound they're my favorite brand. I've been from one side of the audio landscape to the other and I always find myself coming back to their IEMs. A lot of this admittedly has to do with library. I think I have a lot of similar music tastes to the folks who tune their IEMs which, as you allude here, includes (among other things) a lot of classic rock, pop and jazz. Thank-you for sharing your thoughtful impressions.

 

[chickenmcnug]

The mids is where I’m undecided. I’m leaning more towards Anni’s because they have a touch more fullness to their notes. At times I’m finding Ravens mids to sound a little thin for my preferences, but only slightly. Both have a fairly V-shaped sort of tuning so I don’t expect either of them to sound super bodied and rich, but I think Anni’s midrange tonal balance is a little more realistic having a slightly warmer edge.

Alright I can cross this one off the list as well. Anni's mids worked for the sound as a whole but I wanted more.

So I've put together a small list of IEMs I want to compare to the VEX to confirm if it's truly "the one" for me:

1. Aura
2. Camelot
3. Perpetua?
4. Newish FiRs (just really curious about the BCD and the constant praise for them, loved the M5, was also the most comfortable universal I've ever owned.)
5. Bonneville (Also wanted to ask for those ho have listened to this if the mids on these are closer to OG Solaris or the later versions? I heavily prefer the OG's tuning)

Am I missing out on any IEMs with DD bass and warmish/full sounding mids?

 

[LoryWiv]

Alright I can cross this one off the list as well. Anni's mids worked for the sound as a whole but I wanted more.

So I've put together a small list of IEMs I want to compare to the VEX to confirm if it's truly "the one" for me:

1. Aura
2. Camelot
3. Perpetua?
4. Newish FiRs (just really curious about the BCD and the constant praise for them, loved the M5, was also the most comfortable universal I've ever owned.)
5. Bonneville (Also wanted to ask for those ho have listened to this if the mids on these are closer to OG Solaris or the later versions? I heavily prefer the OG's tuning)

Am I missing out on any IEMs with DD bass and warmish/full sounding mids?

If you don't mind going with a lesser known brand, AüR Audio Aurora w/dual DD's and 6 BA's are worth looking into. I have the now discontinued precursor model, AüR Audio Aure, and the mids are spectacular, like a warm coat while drinking hot chocolate by the fire BUT not gooey / sloppy, just lush whilst retaining sufficient detail and layering. They are a bargain as well at under $600 USD.

 

[chickenmcnug]

If you don't mind going with a lesser known brand, AüR Audio Aurora w/dual DD's and 6 BA's are worth looking into. I have the now discontinued precursor model, AüR Audio Aure, and the mids are spectacular, like a warm coat while drinking hot chocolate by the fire BUT not gooey / sloppy, just lush whilst retaining sufficient detail and layering. They are a bargain as well at under $600 USD.

I was interested in them until the whole fiasco with the polls lol.

 

[haci]

I’ve also been comparing Anni 23 and Raven lately and I agree that they are both rather comparable and occupy a similar tuning signature albeit with a few key differences.

My conclusion is that I prefer Raven for bass and technicalities across the board (soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, dynamics and transient speed), but I prefer Anni’s treble. That said, I think Raven’s treble is very good and competes with Anni 23, but its balanced tuning takes the treble away from the spotlight and it blends a little better within the overall sound presentation. Anni's treble sticks out more and is a more captivating, exciting treble that I can easily get lost in hearing all that air and sparkle.

The mids is where I’m undecided. I’m leaning more towards Anni’s because they have a touch more fullness to their notes. At times I’m finding Ravens mids to sound a little thin for my preferences, but only slightly. Both have a fairly V-shaped sort of tuning so I don’t expect either of them to sound super bodied and rich, but I think Anni’s midrange tonal balance is a little more realistic having a slightly warmer edge.

Ravens bass quality is absolutely sublime and up there with the best I’ve ever heard. It reminds me of Odin’s bass in terms of quality, but with just the right amount of extra oomph to make it a much more fun and engaging listen (for my prefs). Bass is a no-contest win for Raven over Anni IMHO.

Raven has really grown on me over the last few days and it will now sit in my top 10 favourite IEM’s, most likely above Anni 23 for its superior technical performance and bass. Anni 23 is still one of my all-time favourites as well and still the for treble to my ears. I’d happily own both if money was no object. But if I had to pick between the two, my choice at this point in time would be Raven.

Does anyone, by chance have RS8, Anni and Raven?

There is a setting on RS8. Plug-ins --> Mastermind -> A4499. It considerably extends treble and enlarges soundstage to the sides. Might be too much for Anni but fits Raven nicely. I haven't heard Anni and I'm guessing with Raven this is what Anni's treble sounds like. Anyone can try this and share impressions?

 

[Zmue]

I’ve also been comparing Anni 23 and Raven lately and I agree that they are both rather comparable and occupy a similar tuning signature albeit with a few key differences.

My conclusion is that I prefer Raven for bass and technicalities across the board (soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, dynamics and transient speed), but I prefer Anni’s treble. That said, I think Raven’s treble is very good and competes with Anni 23, but its balanced tuning takes the treble away from the spotlight and it blends a little better within the overall sound presentation. Anni's treble sticks out more and is a more captivating, exciting treble that I can easily get lost in hearing all that air and sparkle.

The mids is where I’m undecided. I’m leaning more towards Anni’s because they have a touch more fullness to their notes. At times I’m finding Ravens mids to sound a little thin for my preferences, but only slightly. Both have a fairly V-shaped sort of tuning so I don’t expect either of them to sound super bodied and rich, but I think Anni’s midrange tonal balance is a little more realistic having a slightly warmer edge.

Ravens bass quality is absolutely sublime and up there with the best I’ve ever heard. It reminds me of Odin’s bass in terms of quality, but with just the right amount of extra oomph to make it a much more fun and engaging listen (for my prefs). Bass is a no-contest win for Raven over Anni IMHO.

Raven has really grown on me over the last few days and it will now sit in my top 10 favourite IEM’s, most likely above Anni 23 for its superior technical performance and bass. Anni 23 is still one of my all-time favourites as well and still the for treble to my ears. I’d happily own both if money was no object. But if I had to pick between the two, my choice at this point in time would be Raven.

Hey Damz!

Adding to what you’ve said here between these two, how would you compare Raven & Anni with Loki Emerald?

These three have been on my top 5 list to pick from going into this year (7th Acoustics Asteria being at the top but that’s probably not till this summer at best) and the itch to pick up a new toy is back yet again.

Not sure about Raven’s upper mid range dip; I found U12t doing this tended to soften vocals and give some instruments less “bite”. Whereas Loki kinda looks like.. a “better” EE Odin(?); has the extension and warmer mid-bass to sub curve that I definitely prefer, though I have never heard Odin and a bit worried it may be too forward/fatiguing is mids.

Where you would your place these three in your ranking list for techs? I’ve heard great things about Loki bass & Anni treble, good to hear Raven has great bass. Bass dynamics is really important to me.

 

[nocturne19]

Whereas Loki kinda looks like.. a “better” EE Odin(?); has the extension and warmer mid-bass to sub curve that I definitely prefer, though I have never heard Odin and a bit worried it may be too forward/fatiguing is mids.

YMMV: I preferred Odin over Loki. When I demoed Loki, it instantly reminded me of Odin - both have forward upper mids, with Loki having more energy at both extensions. The dealbreaker of Loki lies in its treble: it sounds pretty aggressive without being well-extended, which sounds a bit unfriendly to electronic music. Treble aggressiveness extends to vocals, where sibilance is somehow prominent on sopranos. With forward upper mids, I didn't find the set really comfortable, especially for long listening periods. Odin's treble extension, indeed, isn't very impressive to present day standards, but hey, at least it sounds smoother.
Despite all of that, I do agree that Loki has an edge in bass, particularly in slam and attack. Uncertain about technicals, but from distant memory Loki has the upper hand in resolution, while Odin has impressive staging (with cable swap).

Somewhat a 'fan' of Kinera since Kinera Idun, I admit Loki is a statement piece entering the higher-end market. I didn't resonate with it, but I believe they have better offerings to come. And damn they have the one of the finest crafts in the market

 

[CharlyBrown]

I can't speak much for the Tsuranagi which I've only briefly demoed, but as someone who's owned many portable amps over the years here are a few thoughts.

There's a particular joy that stems from enjoying music through comfortable earphones with a supple cable, through a small digital audio player. The IEMs "disappear" and you forget they're even in your ears, and with the player resting in your pocket the illusion that music is appearing out of nowhere is blissfully created.

That's why for years I was insistent on using smaller, more comfortable single-DD IEMs with lighter, more flexible 4 wire cables - to preserve that priceless feeling.

However over the past two years my philosophy changed.

I now prefer larger hybrid IEMs with higher driver counts, beefier 8 wire cables, and almost always use my Mass Kobo 475 portable amp listening at home.

Why the change? My sound quality demands have increased.


Many people assume IEM performance is automatically maxxed out by spending thousands on a DAP, particularly a large one like the N30LE or 320MAX. It is not. There is scope for improvement by using a high quality external amp, which has the potential to grow the stage further, deepen bass, improve dynamics, increase imaging & resolution, and critically improve control during busy passages of music. Modern TOTL DAPs are amazing, but only so much amp that can fit in the palm of your hand.

Naturally many people argue if you're going to add an amp, why not go desktop and potentially get even greater performance & value? That's a valid option, because even modern budget IEMs can scale massively with amplification. I prefer portable amps that can be used in any room of the house without being tied down, but of course there's the hassle of charging them & having to use an interconnect. Once you're accustomed to the performance gains though... it's very hard to go back.

There's still a singular pleasure to using a one-box solution, which remains my preference when listening outdoors or on trips... but kicking performance up a notch at home by adding an amp is a seriously nice option to have. Sound Tiger portable amps are a great low-cost option.

Thank you for your impressions. I totally respect that.

Maybe I'll give the MB or Tsuranagi a try one day, hope there might be a chance at HighEnd Munich in May. Although I remain skeptical if this is really needed with IEMs, tbh.

I tend to trust the guys from headphone.com and crin (I know, very controversial around here) and my own reception. I posted that several times before, I don't identify that much of an improvement even with high powered desktop gear and my IEMs and headphones vs my SP3000 with It's humble amp. I mean I do think that I hear very faint differences but mostly I prefer the A&K signature for my music. Just like Goldensound, I think the SP3000 is sufficient for IEMs and low demanding headphones. YMMV, of course and that's a good thing!

On the other hand, if an external amp, specifically Mass Kobo or Tsuranagi, bring a new flavor into the game, signature-wise. That could be a attractive for me. The question ist, will that work for all my IEMs/Headphones and could this also be achieved with EQ?

 

[Onurb8690]

I’ve also been comparing Anni 23 and Raven lately and I agree that they are both rather comparable and occupy a similar tuning signature albeit with a few key differences.

My conclusion is that I prefer Raven for bass and technicalities across the board (soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, dynamics and transient speed), but I prefer Anni’s treble. That said, I think Raven’s treble is very good and competes with Anni 23, but its balanced tuning takes the treble away from the spotlight and it blends a little better within the overall sound presentation. Anni's treble sticks out more and is a more captivating, exciting treble that I can easily get lost in hearing all that air and sparkle.

The mids is where I’m undecided. I’m leaning more towards Anni’s because they have a touch more fullness to their notes. At times I’m finding Ravens mids to sound a little thin for my preferences, but only slightly. Both have a fairly V-shaped sort of tuning so I don’t expect either of them to sound super bodied and rich, but I think Anni’s midrange tonal balance is a little more realistic having a slightly warmer edge.

Ravens bass quality is absolutely sublime and up there with the best I’ve ever heard. It reminds me of Odin’s bass in terms of quality, but with just the right amount of extra oomph to make it a much more fun and engaging listen (for my prefs). Bass is a no-contest win for Raven over Anni IMHO.

Raven has really grown on me over the last few days and it will now sit in my top 10 favourite IEM’s, most likely above Anni 23 for its superior technical performance and bass. Anni 23 is still one of my all-time favourites as well and still the for treble to my ears. I’d happily own both if money was no object. But if I had to pick between the two, my choice at this point in time would be Raven.

Curious to see your updated List

 

[kokokab]

So today I was given the opportunity to try @AxLvR 's latest toy, the Wan and only Aroma Audio Fei Wan.

I tried the FW using songs that I usually listen to, like K-Pop and Hip-Hop/Rap. Simply put, this is the MOST musical IEM I've ever heard, very musical yet detailed.

The Fei Wan still has Jewel's DNA, especially in the midrange, but apart from that, the bass and highs are better on the Fei Wan, the imaging on the FW is very very holographic, lastly the soundstage isn't very big, but it's not small either, just enough to my liking.

All listening was done with SP3k.

 

[denis1976]

Thank you for your impressions. I totally respect that.

Maybe I'll give the MB or Tsuranagi a try one day, hope there might be a chance at HighEnd Munich in May. Although I remain skeptical if this is really needed with IEMs, tbh.

I tend to trust the guys from headphone.com and crin (I know, very controversial around here) and my own reception. I posted that several times before, I don't identify that much of an improvement even with high powered desktop gear and my IEMs and headphones vs my SP3000 with It's humble amp. I mean I do think that I hear very faint differences but mostly I prefer the A&K signature for my music. Just like Goldensound, I think the SP3000 is sufficient for IEMs and low demanding headphones. YMMV, of course and that's a good thing!

On the other hand, if an external amp, specifically Mass Kobo or Tsuranagi, bring a new flavor into the game, signature-wise. That could be a attractive for me. The question ist, will that work for all my IEMs/Headphones and could this also be achieved with EQ?

From your point of view all daps have humble amps, because all demanding headphones play better with a quality portable or desktop amplifier than with a dap, i have a sp3000 and dont notice any weakness in it that other daps dont, so please change the speach please with all respect, i am tired of your obvious conclusions

 

[osocan]

Have you heard the Fei Wan by any chance? I love the Annihilator-- in particular the energy and articulation in the upper frequencies. The bass always wound up being a bit of a let down for me (though I know many don't have this issue...YMMV) but in Fei Wan I found an IEM that takes most of what I love about something like the Annihilator (but not everything), adds some of its own imaging secret sauce and most importantly a thoroughly satisfying bass response. I agree about the Raven. I heard it a few times in SoCal. I found it quite source picky (sounded super engaging and dynamic through one, but flat and dull through another) but on the whole nothing about it really grabbed me or stood out in my mind later. I'm looking forward to revisiting it in NYC.

Not yet but I intend to. Given the reviews and impressions, it seems to be a set that would gel with me.

On a different note, spent an afternoon in e-earphones last week. 6 floors of head-fi goodness. An afternoon in a single trip is definitely not enough! Of all the sets I listened, I like the Noble Zephyr and Acoustune Sho (ACT07) most. For TWS, the Noble Fokus Prestige is top-notch.

 

[Crazeee]

Alright I can cross this one off the list as well. Anni's mids worked for the sound as a whole but I wanted more.

So I've put together a small list of IEMs I want to compare to the VEX to confirm if it's truly "the one" for me:

1. Aura
2. Camelot
3. Perpetua?
4. Newish FiRs (just really curious about the BCD and the constant praise for them, loved the M5, was also the most comfortable universal I've ever owned.)
5. Bonneville (Also wanted to ask for those ho have listened to this if the mids on these are closer to OG Solaris or the later versions? I heavily prefer the OG's tuning)

Am I missing out on any IEMs with DD bass and warmish/full sounding mids?

Seems Noble MuZiGe would be what you are looking for, 10BA1DD, very full bodied mid and dark signature with DD bass. I am enjoying that right now and gonna share more shortly

 

[Garney]

I’ve also been comparing Anni 23 and Raven lately and I agree that they are both rather comparable and occupy a similar tuning signature albeit with a few key differences.

My conclusion is that I prefer Raven for bass and technicalities across the board (soundstage, imaging, detail retrieval, dynamics and transient speed), but I prefer Anni’s treble. That said, I think Raven’s treble is very good and competes with Anni 23, but its balanced tuning takes the treble away from the spotlight and it blends a little better within the overall sound presentation. Anni's treble sticks out more and is a more captivating, exciting treble that I can easily get lost in hearing all that air and sparkle.

The mids is where I’m undecided. I’m leaning more towards Anni’s because they have a touch more fullness to their notes. At times I’m finding Ravens mids to sound a little thin for my preferences, but only slightly. Both have a fairly V-shaped sort of tuning so I don’t expect either of them to sound super bodied and rich, but I think Anni’s midrange tonal balance is a little more realistic having a slightly warmer edge.

Ravens bass quality is absolutely sublime and up there with the best I’ve ever heard. It reminds me of Odin’s bass in terms of quality, but with just the right amount of extra oomph to make it a much more fun and engaging listen (for my prefs). Bass is a no-contest win for Raven over Anni IMHO.

Raven has really grown on me over the last few days and it will now sit in my top 10 favourite IEM’s, most likely above Anni 23 for its superior technical performance and bass. Anni 23 is still one of my all-time favourites as well and still the for treble to my ears. I’d happily own both if money was no object. But if I had to pick between the two, my choice at this point in time would be Raven.

Great impressions, Damz. The satin gold faceplate on Raven v2 are definitely growing on me. Still blows my mind a bit that folks are finding Raven comfortable and aren't having major fit issues... it dwarfs Anni in this picture and Anni is by no means a small IEM. EE really nailed the shell geometry and contouring it seems.

 

[chickenmcnug]

Seems Noble MuZiGe would be what you are looking for, 10BA1DD, very full bodied mid and dark signature with DD bass. I am enjoying that right now and gonna share more shortly

Ooh always wanted to try Noble though from what I've read their house sound seems to lean toward the technical side of things.

Looking forward to your impressions.