The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Nov 25, 2023 at 7:25 PM Post #71,626 of 88,201
I have been in the EE camp for the past few years and always thought of IEM as my portable / travel setup. But after the initial hiccups on the raven launch, I found myself going deeper down the rabbit hole (blame @tjzurlaaa and @mungster). Discovered the Aura because the raven was such a mess and it didn't help the n30le sounded so damn good. Next thing you know, I am exploring the UM AP, rhapsodio supv3, and the multiverse for a brief bit.

So what is my point here? I think I am on the fence about giving up on my home setup (wa33 / holo may / abyss 1266 tc). What I am hearing in these IEM's are so much more enjoyable and has revived my interest in personal audio equipment. It doesn't seem like the headphone market has really evolved all that much and i've been bored of it for some time.

Has anyone else felt this way? Am I crazy? Is there another headphone that I should try? Previously have owned ZMF VC & VO, susvara, focal utopia, hd820, hd800 and gone through the chord dave, hugo2, hdv820, wa8, schiit stacks.
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 7:56 PM Post #71,629 of 88,201
If it's in SoCal, 100% I'd be there. Vegas would be 50/50 for me.
Ditto. Although Vegas odds more like 0/100 for me. Wife would never go for it...
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 8:13 PM Post #71,630 of 88,201
I'm okay with either SoCal or Vegas. I know dealers in both places that are very friendly and generous to Head-Fiers in terms of sharing their spaces. The main benefit of SoCal is that it's closer to many of us here, such that we can just drive and make a day of it. The main benefit of Vegas is that we can fly there and make a weekend of it. I'm thinking of sometime in January, after all the holiday madness. Thoughts @emdeevee @fejnomit @stacey @wolfstar76 @Sebastien Chiu @Zachik @XERO1 @moedawg140?
Sounds like SoCal is the best bet for all of us. That’s fine with me!
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 8:58 PM Post #71,631 of 88,201
@Rockwell75 beware of polarity with Nightjar’s cables, because they haven’t a curved preformed design like on other cables, it’s easy to inverse polarity when attaching the cable to the iems, it seems it’s the case on your pic if this cable is wired like my vanguard.
With the vanguard I figured out that the right way of plugin it to iems in order to have the same polarity was when the same side was visible on the external part of both iems like that :

IMG_2648.jpeg

Here you can see the center “hole” line between pins is visible on each iem external side.

I believe it's de facto industry standard to always have the key groove facing outward on each side?

I have been in the EE camp for the past few years and always thought of IEM as my portable / travel setup. But after the initial hiccups on the raven launch, I found myself going deeper down the rabbit hole (blame @tjzurlaaa and @mungster). Discovered the Aura because the raven was such a mess and it didn't help the n30le sounded so damn good. Next thing you know, I am exploring the UM AP, rhapsodio supv3, and the multiverse for a brief bit.

So what is my point here? I think I am on the fence about giving up on my home setup (wa33 / holo may / abyss 1266 tc). What I am hearing in these IEM's are so much more enjoyable and has revived my interest in personal audio equipment. It doesn't seem like the headphone market has really evolved all that much and i've been bored of it for some time.

Has anyone else felt this way? Am I crazy? Is there another headphone that I should try? Previously have owned ZMF VC & VO, susvara, focal utopia, hd820, hd800 and gone through the chord dave, hugo2, hdv820, wa8, schiit stacks.

You'll probably miss your desktop rig. Remember, IEMs are just a different presentation, not necessarily better or worse, just different - not entirely unlike the difference between headphones and speakers.

If it's in SoCal, 100% I'd be there. Vegas would be 50/50 for me.
Vegas has so many flights with deals that go in/out of it and pretty much eating all day/night long.
Ditto. Although Vegas odds more like 0/100 for me. Wife would never go for it...
Sounds like SoCal is the best bet for all of us. That’s fine with me!

Yeah, looks like local is better. Okay, I'll start a PM thread soon to start getting things organized. :slight_smile:
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 9:17 PM Post #71,632 of 88,201
I have been in the EE camp for the past few years and always thought of IEM as my portable / travel setup. But after the initial hiccups on the raven launch, I found myself going deeper down the rabbit hole (blame @tjzurlaaa and @mungster). Discovered the Aura because the raven was such a mess and it didn't help the n30le sounded so damn good. Next thing you know, I am exploring the UM AP, rhapsodio supv3, and the multiverse for a brief bit.

So what is my point here? I think I am on the fence about giving up on my home setup (wa33 / holo may / abyss 1266 tc). What I am hearing in these IEM's are so much more enjoyable and has revived my interest in personal audio equipment. It doesn't seem like the headphone market has really evolved all that much and i've been bored of it for some time.

Has anyone else felt this way? Am I crazy? Is there another headphone that I should try? Previously have owned ZMF VC & VO, susvara, focal utopia, hd820, hd800 and gone through the chord dave, hugo2, hdv820, wa8, schiit stacks.
I really feel the same way at the moment. I find I'm using and enjoying my SP3K and Aura a lot more than my headphone stacks.

I'll probably part ways with my closed-back stack which consists of a Holo Spring 3 KTE --> Violectric v590 Pro --> DCA Stealth. That being said, I'm going to hang on to my open-back stack for the time being (Holo May KTE --> Accuphsae e-380 --> Susvara running off the speaker taps).
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 9:24 PM Post #71,633 of 88,201
Can anyone recommend a desktop DAC/AMP that has at least the same performance in terms of sound quality as the SP3000? I assume these DAPs are so expensive because of the technology and because they are an "all-in-one" portable device. So I assume that something like a desktop DAC/AMP can be cheaper and yet better. Any tips?

In the past, I have tested the CA1000T, Hugo2, Hugo TT2, ADI-2 (Pro SE) and others and they were not "better" for me, not even "equal" in sound quality.
It's entirely possible to build something out that's equivalent to the top level portable gear for around the same price, though it's not as easy/straightforward once you get to the flagship players. It's been a while since I looked into it, but I distinctly remember someone (either GoldenSound or someone in his community) putting the higher end L&P dacs at a very similar level to the (now discontinued) Holo Spring 2 DAC which was in the $2-3000 range. The level of tight integration possible in the highest end DAPs can help to cut some costs relative to higher end desktop gear, as they're able to get rid of extraneous features and connections that are important to maintain versatility/compatibility in the desktop. You only have one signal path and don't have to worry about the various different digital connection methods, isolating from various sources, etc. This isn't to say it's not possible/viable to compete or even beat desktop gear, but it requires some more careful research and matching, as Amps especially are generally optimized around the harder to drive high end headphones, which are quite different from IEMs.

Also saw someone mentioning delay on chord products: That's a function of the upsampling filters they use. They take a lot longer of a sample, which allows them a more accurate recreation of the music, but also introduces more delay the better you get the filter, thus the increasing delay as you go up the stack. This is why the MScaler's delay gets up to the 3 second range.
 
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Nov 25, 2023 at 9:25 PM Post #71,634 of 88,201
Hash House A Go Go. :slight_smile: There are multiple locations so you can pick the one closest to you.



lol, you keep the plastic wrap on just like me! :laughing:



I'd be interested in seeing how you like the Xe6 with a Centurion or Chiron. :slight_smile:

Which reminds me about reviving an old idea... With CanJam New York being so far away, maybe we could have some kind of meet over the winter break? Maybe one in SoCal if I can find a suitable venue, obviously open to locals, but also to any/all Watercoolers willing to travel? Just a thought.


I'm in the Socal area and depending on when/where specifically would be totally down to come to another meet!
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 10:33 PM Post #71,635 of 88,201
Can anyone recommend a desktop DAC/AMP that has at least the same performance in terms of sound quality as the SP3000? I assume these DAPs are so expensive because of the technology and because they are an "all-in-one" portable device. So I assume that something like a desktop DAC/AMP can be cheaper and yet better. Any tips?

In the past, I have tested the CA1000T, Hugo2, Hugo TT2, ADI-2 (Pro SE) and others and they were not "better" for me, not even "equal" in sound quality.
Used Hugo 2 and a tube amp like https://sparkoslabs.com/gemini-headphone-amp/ could be a great combo.
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 10:50 PM Post #71,636 of 88,201
I picked up the Campfire Andromeda Emerald Sea for half price from a local B&M. Burned in for 50 hours.

The treble is about where I like, detailed, effortless, not splashy, touch of nice sparkle, sibilance is non-existant, there is a tiny bump somewhere in the upper mids which just gives vocals clarity on the leading edge but without any piercing, toeing that line perfectly. These are missing some airiness in the topmost registers which affects the sound stage negatively, I wouldn't mind a touch more sparkle but what is there is nice, I would not call these warm or rolled off in the strictest sense, I think treble beyond this point goes into bright territory personally, but I tend to perceive a dead flat or neutral FR as bright also.

Mids sound smooth to a fault, there is less contrast and bite than what I'd ideally like, but in return you get an extremely easy to listen to and honeyed vocal sound, not really recessed, just smoothed over, which ultimately can make it sound V shaped with some sources (Sony ZX507), but they sound quite balanced with some sources that are more vocal forward (Hiby RS2). Just keep in mind that the actual mid tonality is quite good, there is no overbearing pinna gain like some older CA iem's, there is no big spikes or recessions that I can hear, they are just smooth, lacking some bite and contrast, and a tick below the rest of the mix. But keep reading as I made a mod to bring the mids more into focus without losing wht their about.

I also found I prefer the sound in low gain mode on both sources through the balanced 4.4mm, as putting it in high gain increases bass output and skews frequency balance, in low gain balanced they are punchy and go deep, I find myself missing dynamic driver bass pretty quickly when listening to these, but that's really just me being spoilt, because as far as BA bass goes I think these do it better than most, just don't have that dynamic driver timbre and texture, but decay wise I'm not missing much as these have done it better than most BA's, there is just a fraction of decay giving the bass better body and impact which I like, I'm not a fan of massive bass decay ala Sony iem's and many others.

Imaging is really nice, pin point, stage width seems to only extend to just past my ears, with a very solid image between, whether center image or extremities, it's tack sharp with the layering and separation, it does stage height well, it's not just wide and thin, it extends a bit above my head, there is an above average 3d stage with these, but I would have liked an even bigger out of head experience honestly, maybe a touch more sparkle could have helped here, I think it's possible to achieve bigger stage with some mods to the ear tips.

I don't hear these as having bass bleed, but in terms of bass quantity, sometimes it is a touch too much, othertimes it really adds to the song. I have improved the sound by using a pure silver cable, with final e tips, in low gain balanced. I also did a small mod which slightly increased detail/definition of the sound top to bottom. What I did was insert a small hard plastic tube into the sound bore of the final e tips pictured below, which removes the sound dampening effect of the silicon bore from the sound path giving the mids and treble the harder edge they could use, it also helps tighten up the bass. Now I have a feeling that if I found a plastic tube with a slightly larger diameter to insert into the sound bore this could increase the sound stage size and reduce mid bass, as I think the final e tips are slightly too narrow and restricting for this iem, as the sound bore of the andromeda are larger than the bore of the final e tips which are creating a restriction and altering FR (increasing midbass and mid treble I reckon).

As for the stock foam and silcon tips, I found them to compromise the sound, the foam took definition away from an already smooth sound, and the stock silicon were somehow even worse than the foam to my surprise.

My daily headphones are HD800S, I use iem's sparingly, so that's my primary reference point.

Overall nice, happy with the purchase, I'm not sure if these warrant their retail price, I guess in terms of imaging they compete with the best, but I have a very value centric approach to sound, I think these should be priced at 1k, I also think many iem's over 1k are overpriced in general though, my RTX 4090 is certainly overpriced, heh.

20231126_131814.jpg
 
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Nov 25, 2023 at 11:20 PM Post #71,637 of 88,201
I might be in the minority here, but those tips are the most uncomfortable bad sounding tips I’ve ever used 😅
Nope, you're not the only one that feels like that. The stock eartips of RN6 are unusable for me because the silicon is too thick and firm so I can't have a good seal using it unless I remove the foam. I ordered their new and improved Symbio W and I hope the new silicon is thinner like Spinfit but still retain some firmness so I don't lose the bass and has a good fit 😁
I have been in the EE camp for the past few years and always thought of IEM as my portable / travel setup. But after the initial hiccups on the raven launch, I found myself going deeper down the rabbit hole (blame @tjzurlaaa and @mungster). Discovered the Aura because the raven was such a mess and it didn't help the n30le sounded so damn good. Next thing you know, I am exploring the UM AP, rhapsodio supv3, and the multiverse for a brief bit.

So what is my point here? I think I am on the fence about giving up on my home setup (wa33 / holo may / abyss 1266 tc). What I am hearing in these IEM's are so much more enjoyable and has revived my interest in personal audio equipment. It doesn't seem like the headphone market has really evolved all that much and i've been bored of it for some time.

Has anyone else felt this way? Am I crazy? Is there another headphone that I should try? Previously have owned ZMF VC & VO, susvara, focal utopia, hd820, hd800 and gone through the chord dave, hugo2, hdv820, wa8, schiit stacks.
Nah, you're not crazy I'm sure of it 😂
I think you love it more due to the portability and versatility, but about the sonic performance I think desktop is still better than the portable. But I guess now the portable audio are slowly but surely catch up to the desktop setup. What's not to love if we can bring a fraction of our desktop setup performance everytime everywhere (all at once) 🤭
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 11:38 PM Post #71,638 of 88,201
I really feel the same way at the moment. I find I'm using and enjoying my SP3K and Aura a lot more than my headphone stacks.

I'll probably part ways with my closed-back stack which consists of a Holo Spring 3 KTE --> Violectric v590 Pro --> DCA Stealth. That being said, I'm going to hang on to my open-back stack for the time being (Holo May KTE --> Accuphsae e-380 --> Susvara running off the speaker taps).

I am tempted to sell the abyss 1266 tc, but keep the wa33/may in case I ever revert back. I also tried the rhapsodio supv3 off the wa33 / may and it sounded pretty damn good! Any other IEM, and I would be afraid
 
Nov 25, 2023 at 11:41 PM Post #71,639 of 88,201
Nah, you're not crazy I'm sure of it 😂
I think you love it more due to the portability and versatility, but about the sonic performance I think desktop is still better than the portable. But I guess now the portable audio are slowly but surely catch up to the desktop setup. What's not to love if we can bring a fraction of our desktop setup performance everytime everywhere (all at once) 🤭

Thats the crazy thing.. This n30le with the UM AP and rhapsodio supv3 blows away the abyss 1266 TC both in bass, transparency, and timbre. The soundstage is a little smaller, but it's worth the sacrifice over these two IEMs.
 
Nov 26, 2023 at 12:05 AM Post #71,640 of 88,201
I'm okay with either SoCal or Vegas. I know dealers in both places that are very friendly and generous to Head-Fiers in terms of sharing their spaces. The main benefit of SoCal is that it's closer to many of us here, such that we can just drive and make a day of it. The main benefit of Vegas is that we can fly there and make a weekend of it. I'm thinking of sometime in January, after all the holiday madness. Thoughts @emdeevee @fejnomit @stacey @wolfstar76 @Sebastien Chiu @Zachik @XERO1 @moedawg140?

Let's go! January will work great for me in Vegas.
 

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