The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[drftr]

I hadn't really considered that. Maybe I need to start dropping some dB and learning to enjoy at a lower volume.

And agreed, very recording dependent. For example I've yet to hear an IEM play back Tool or Rage Against the Machine to my satisfaction. Some recordings are very raw in these regions and difficult to tolerate.

I am somehow extremely sensitive to the "correct" sound pressure level. I've had this for over 3 decades and I don't know why. Like currently I have a setup with 100 volume steps and 70% af my albums play perfect when I start out at a volume level of 60. But for another 15% or so I need to up the volume to 61 to completely align with musical involvement, toe tappping, rhythm, dynamics, what have you. But turning up the level just one single step to 62 instead leads to me becoming uncomfortable with it and not being able any longer to focus on the songlines as it comes across as something blaring into my ears. I honestly think this is totally absurd but I guess I'm just that then.

Curious to whether anyone else has developed this!

drftr

 

[gazzington]

It's a straight choice between the HiBy R8 (which I've had for about a year and thoroughly appreciate) and the new RS6 (which I've had for a few months and am appreciating more and more as HiBy tweaks the sound and the R2R board burns in - 200h+ and I feel it's still improving). On first listen the RS6 didn't stand a chance, but I'm now leaning more towards keeping the RS6. It has a more immediate sound than the R8, perhaps a touch less refined but also more natural and 'musical', plus it has better synergy with my 2021 'endgame' IEM duo.

I need to be more like you in the sense of trying stuff and only keeping what I think is best. I’ve been hoarding too much. Dap wise, I have:
Dx300max
Shanling m8
Wm1z
Wm1a
Cayin N6ii with all modules

My favourite on the whole is probably the N6ii with r01. Maybe I should sell most of them and get the rs6.
Too many iems too. Am thinking of selling my elysium and ier z1r

 

[gLer]

I hadn't really considered that. Maybe I need to start dropping some dB and learning to enjoy at a lower volume.

And agreed, very recording dependent. For example I've yet to hear an IEM play back Tool or Rage Against the Machine to my satisfaction. Some recordings are very raw in these regions and difficult to tolerate.

Also remember that IEMs - especially higher-end IEMs - are significantly more resolving than the speakers or headphones used to monitor these recordings. So you're going to hear every detail amplified, and also every flaw (including flaws that may not have been obvious to the recording engineers). There's a reason many recordings are simply 'easier' to listen to on headphones and even moreso on speakers. The immediacy of IEMs can sometimes be a curse as much as a blessing.

I am somehow extremely sensitive to the "correct" sound pressure level. I've had this for over 3 decades and I don't know why. Like currently I have a setup with 100 volume steps and 70% af my albums play perfect when I start out at a volume level of 60. But for another 15% or so I need to up the volume to 61 to completely align with musical involvement, toe tappping, rhythm, dynamics, what have you. But turning up the level just one single step to 62 instead leads to me becoming uncomfortable with it and not being able any longer to focus on the songlines as it comes across as something blaring into my ears. I honestly think this is totally absurd but I guess I'm just that then.

Curious to whether anyone else has developed this!

drftr

Definitely. On many tracks, and depending on what I'm using to listen with, even a 1-step adjustment up or down can be the difference between good and great, or great and harsh. Very track dependent.

 

[gLer]

I need to be more like you in the sense of trying stuff and only keeping what I think is best. I’ve been hoarding too much. Dap wise, I have:
Dx300max
Shanling m8
Wm1z
Wm1a
Cayin N6ii with all modules

My favourite on the whole is probably the N6ii with r01. Maybe I should sell most of them and get the rs6.
Too many iems too. Am thinking of selling my elysium and ier z1r

Along with the DAPs I now also have the ifi GO blu and Gryphon. Each has its own use case: GB for out and about, or when I want to be able to take calls but still listen with a good pair of wired IEMs instead of the TWS. DAP for focused local file and network listening with my best IEMs and/or headphones. And Gryphon for a combination of both, either casual or convenient listening with BT via phone, or a wired connection to a computer or phone or DAP (via line in) for more serious listening.

The way I've approached my gear selection is by use case more than music type or genre. I know what type of sound I enjoy and have found IEMs that play all my music to a very high level, so it comes down to finding the best IEMs for the two or three use cases I have. Same goes for sources, though my aim is still to find one universal source for all my IEMs, plus the phone for wireless/BT.

 

[davidmolliere]

Also remember that IEMs - especially higher-end IEMs - are significantly more resolving than the speakers or headphones used to monitor these recordings. So you're going to hear every detail amplified, and also every flaw (including flaws that may not have been obvious to the recording engineers). There's a reason many recordings are simply 'easier' to listen to on headphones and even moreso on speakers. The immediacy of IEMs can sometimes be a curse as much as a blessing.

Very good point that we tend to forget!

 

[Scubadevils]

It's a straight choice between the HiBy R8 (which I've had for about a year and thoroughly appreciate) and the new RS6 (which I've had for a few months and am appreciating more and more as HiBy tweaks the sound and the R2R board burns in - 200h+ and I feel it's still improving). On first listen the RS6 didn't stand a chance, but I'm now leaning more towards keeping the RS6. It has a more immediate sound than the R8, perhaps a touch less refined but also more natural and 'musical', plus it has better synergy with my 2021 'endgame' IEM duo.

5-6khz is right on the cusp of lower treble, if not inside the treble region already, whereas upper mids are usually around 3-4khz (where Dark Sky has more energy than IE 900 but doesn't look to be boosted either). That's what I'm told anyway, and the boundaries seem to shift depending on who you ask. For me it's not so much about energy in that region, but also quality. You can have boosted upper mids/lower treble that still sounds smooth and silky, and you can also have some harshness, hardness or sibilance if there's too much going on or the drivers aren't quite up to it. Not sure where Dark Sky falls, but it seems you're liking this particular track and the energy in that region so the driver must be decent. IE 900 is almost always pristine, like you say, but some upper mid sounds can appear a but distant by comparison - though I find when I'm not comparing, IE 900 never sounds veiled or recessed to my ears. Look forward to reading more from your shootout, great job here!

Thanks for that explanation on upper mids/lower treble - makes sense and again further helps in my assessment of some more challenging tracks. I've noted and will expand further in the coming days how complex synths for example at higher frequencies can lean harsh on Dark Sky.

Agreed also on IE900, I didn't have that issue at all while listening exclusively for a number of days, it only became apparent once I shifted to Dark Sky and ZEN PRO. Both IE900 and Dark Sky can push boundaries with different genres, ZEN PRO the more polite of the three!

 

[Xinlisupreme]

Also remember that IEMs - especially higher-end IEMs - are significantly more resolving than the speakers or headphones used to monitor these recordings. So you're going to hear every detail amplified, and also every flaw (including flaws that may not have been obvious to the recording engineers). There's a reason many recordings are simply 'easier' to listen to on headphones and even moreso on speakers. The immediacy of IEMs can sometimes be a curse as much as a blessing.

I found an IEM has a good mix of resolution and prat and sounds everything damned well: Aroma Thunder.

 

[KutuzovGambit]

I know this is a thread for high end folks, but I also know that a lot of people here are into good single DD IEMs and I just thought I should drop a note about the BQEYZ Autumn, which has been the biggest surprise of 2021 for me. The rather huge 13mm driver is very well tuned, being anything from warm neutral to a light V depending on which tuning is selected. The tuning mechanism is quite unique, and is accomplished by dropping in one of three magnetic buttons into the shell using a special tool. The tuning buttons affects the bass gain and not the treble as in every other single-DD tuning mechanism of which I am aware.

Anyway, so it’s got a unique gizmo on it but more importantly it is extremely technically accomplished for a single DD while retaining a very pleasant and musical tuning. For those who heard the NF Audio NM2+/NA2+, this basically a true upgrade for me (what I wished the NA2+ would have been) since it doesn’t have such hot upper mids/lower treble and also provides the option for more musical tunings as well as one that hews pretty close to neutrality.

It’s swiftly become my all-time favorite single DD other than the Isabellae (being more technical than the latter to my ear, albeit without that inimitable Oriolus special sauce in the tuning), and at $199 is well within the budget of most people here I would guess. I was never too impressed with BQEYZ before, but this one I think they really hit out of the park especially for the price range.

I’m working on a review but life has been crazy lately and not sure when I’ll get it finished

 

[endless402]

I am somehow extremely sensitive to the "correct" sound pressure level. I've had this for over 3 decades and I don't know why. Like currently I have a setup with 100 volume steps and 70% af my albums play perfect when I start out at a volume level of 60. But for another 15% or so I need to up the volume to 61 to completely align with musical involvement, toe tappping, rhythm, dynamics, what have you. But turning up the level just one single step to 62 instead leads to me becoming uncomfortable with it and not being able any longer to focus on the songlines as it comes across as something blaring into my ears. I honestly think this is totally absurd but I guess I'm just that then.

Curious to whether anyone else has developed this!

drftr

Sounds more like a source/amp problem? Usually when you notice that if you have to turn up the volume, it’s because the source or amp can’t keep up. And if you turn up the volume this leads to fatigue.

Generally this is what I’ve found with lower quality sources/amps.

My priorities are different than most ppl in this chat due to my 2 channel experience. My focus is on source/amp first, then the speaker/iem.

 

[Scubadevils]

I know this is a thread for high end folks, but I also know that a lot of people here are into good single DD IEMs and I just thought I should drop a note about the BQEYZ Autumn, which has been the biggest surprise of 2021 for me. The rather huge 13mm driver is very well tuned, being anything from warm neutral to a light V depending on which tuning is selected. The tuning mechanism is quite unique, and is accomplished by dropping in one of three magnetic buttons into the shell using a special tool. The tuning buttons affects the bass gain and not the treble as in every other single-DD tuning mechanism of which I am aware.

Anyway, so it’s got a unique gizmo on it but more importantly it is extremely technically accomplished for a single DD while retaining a very pleasant and musical tuning. For those who heard the NF Audio NM2+/NA2+, this basically a true upgrade for me (what I wished the NA2+ would have been) since it doesn’t have such hot upper mids/lower treble and also provides the option for more musical tunings as well as one that hews pretty close to neutrality.

For $199 it’s my all-time favorite single DD other than the Isabellae (being more technical than the latter to my ear, albeit without that inimitable Oriolus special sauce in the tuning), and well within the budget of most people here I would guess. I was never too impressed with BQEYZ before, but this one I think they really hit out of the park especially for the price range.

My single DD alarm just went off! Sounds very interesting and I will add to my list. Honestly though, this thread is anything and everything audio and a great place to discuss regardless of price.

 

[rantng]

Speaking of single DDs, anyone heard the Lotoo LE-M1?

Also, I've reacquired the IE900. Still prefer the Dark Sky, but really enjoying the fit of IE900. I discovered my preferred Sony tips work with the 2-step system on the IE900 nozzles.

 

[Xinlisupreme]

7hz fan… why i88 and i99 hasn’t timeless hype?

 

[davidmolliere]

7hz fan… why i88 and i99 hasn’t timeless hype?

Come on you know you want to try it and it's discounted too...

 

[discord]

I'm still learning about what a lot of these terms mean for me in practice. On the topic of 2021 revelations that sound glossary that was shared here a month or so ago definitely counts as one for me-- it really opened my eyes to what a lot of these terms we throw around (detail, resolution etc.) really mean, or were originally implied to mean.

I like this video because it shows the various different ways people use the same term.

 

[Deezel177]

Also remember that IEMs - especially higher-end IEMs - are significantly more resolving than the speakers or headphones used to monitor these recordings. So you're going to hear every detail amplified, and also every flaw (including flaws that may not have been obvious to the recording engineers). There's a reason many recordings are simply 'easier' to listen to on headphones and even moreso on speakers. The immediacy of IEMs can sometimes be a curse as much as a blessing.

Definitely. On many tracks, and depending on what I'm using to listen with, even a 1-step adjustment up or down can be the difference between good and great, or great and harsh. Very track dependent.

I've just spent the past month-and-a-half mixing and mastering the same few projects across headphones, IEMs and speakers, and I think that statement can be true to a degree.

In my experience, it'd be more accurate to say that different flaws surface when you switch from speakers to IEMs or vice-versa. When I went in to mix with speakers (my first time since college a few years ago), I was expecting to experience what you said, where the immediacy and in-your-face-ness (for lack of a better word) of an in-ear wouldn't be there, and I'd be able to mix and master longer without fatigue. I also expected objectively less precision, at least in a couple of areas. 'Turns out I was wrong both times.

I found that whether I used speakers or IEMs, as long as I exerted the same amount of effort and focus towards listening for flaws, checking for balance, etc., I'd get fatigued at a pretty similar rate. With IEMs, I found I was able to discern more minute changes in individual channel EQ, and left-right panning was so much more apparent. Whereas, on speakers, any element that was even slightly out of balance stood out like a sore thumb, and I found dynamics (and how crowded a track was) was more apparent here too.

So, for me, I think it's more dependent on the mindset you have going into the listening session. I imagine sitting back in front of a set of speakers would come across more passive than jamming two pieces of acrylic (or metal) in your ears. But, ultimately, from an engineering perspective, if you go into it with a similar drive or focus, the two can be more alike than one would think.

Sounds more like a source/amp problem? Usually when you notice that if you have to turn up the volume, it’s because the source or amp can’t keep up. And if you turn up the volume this leads to fatigue.

Generally this is what I’ve found with lower quality sources/amps.

My priorities are different than most ppl in this chat due to my 2 channel experience. My focus is on source/amp first, then the speaker/iem.

I can relate to this. When an amp isn't powering an IEM optimally, it can sound compressed and held back. It sounds exactly like if you've over-compressed a channel, and it can't seem to open up and project as a result. Though, if the issue is too big of a jump in volume from one volume step to the next, you might actually want a source that's less powerful, so you can have smaller increments when increasing or decreasing the volume level.