[claud W]

The # 5 is all copper. The #10 was the one that they did not specify. It is most likely SPC.

 

[feverfive]

Well I also strongly believe that at the level that even entry level stuff is playing at these days, it's all very marginal. I do think there are genuine improvements as you move up, but it's mostly pretty small changes. And enjoyment specifically I think has a lot more to do with preferences rather than technicalities.

I'll piss off some with this sentiment, but by "preferences" I also include confirmation bias due to higher cost/joy of ownership of "high-end" gear. Look, I say this as someone who used to try climbing to the summit. My current audio budget is a shell of its former self, LOL. I have so many more responsibilities and more varied interests now.

Also, Re: cables. I likewise am most certainly not a cable disbeliever (again, as someone who has spent more on cables in the past than I care to admit or tally-up), but I also reached my resting place of "I'm willing to spend a certain % of the original cost of a transducer on a cable for ergonomic/build quality/aesthetic reasons" but no longer based on purported sound characteristics. I do hear sound differences, but too subtle and requires the kind of concentration that I just don't care to maintain for long. But those who $$pend on cables, more power to ya'. You're helping a segment of the audio economy, hahaha, so it's all good to me.

 

[Rockwell75]

I'll piss off some with this sentiment, but by "preferences" I also include confirmation bias due to higher cost/joy of ownership of "high-end" gear. Look, I say this as someone who used to try climbing to the summit. My current audio budget is a shell of its former self, LOL. I have so many more responsibilities and more varied interests now.

Also, Re: cables. I likewise am most certainly not a cable disbeliever (again, as someone who has spent more on cables in the past than I care to admit or tally-up), but I also reached my resting place of "I'm willing to spend a certain % of the original cost of a transducer on a cable for ergonomic/build quality/aesthetic reasons" but no longer based on purported sound characteristics. I do hear sound differences, but too subtle and requires the kind of concentration that I just don't care to maintain for long. But those who $$pend on cables, more power to ya'. You're helping a segment of the audio economy, hahaha, so it's all good to me.

I feel like I should pause for a sec to bask in the glow of all this wisdom.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I feel like I should pause for a sec to bask in the glow of all this wisdom.

For my ZMF VC, I needed a longer cable for my desktop system, so I bought an OFC cable for $70. I didn't like how it felt so I bought a $70 custom cable from Audiophile Ninja. Then, I saw a ZMF Copper cable for a great price. I just had to get it. I bought it exclusively based on how that cable looks. I didn't even bother A/B testing it. I assume cables are all the same and don't even test them anymore.

 

[Billyak]

I have never noticed a difference in sound when changing cables but the experience is a lot better with a nice cable. The bl-03 or tin T2 for example are a much better listening experience with better cables imo.

 

[NewEve]

Mine has arrived 8 hours ago Haven't try it though

p.s. Also got to listen to the R01 at the store today.. It wasn't as good as P6 Pro safe to say, but pretty similar in their R2R unique texture

Bass was slightly boosted, but not as much as P6 Pro. And treble was a bit sparklier brighter. Soundstage was rather small to my ears. The M8 felt much smoother and more expansive. But as always YMMV

What impressed me more was this.. clariar i640

Excellent transparent and silky vocals. Very balanced all-round, neutral but not too flat. Slightly elevated bass. It has a good strong bass hit that felt somewhat like DD. Quite deep, but with only slightly above average power. Midrange was the main highlight as it sounded very clear and light and transparent. The tone was also quite nice, lean and natural

These Clariar grabbed my attention—for their design.

Still LOVING my Sony IER-M9 paired with the ZX507 above and beyond everything I heard so far.

So while it’s pretty certain I’ll order the Isabellae while they’re still on preorder, I ordered Grado’s White Edition to see how they fare compared to my beloved RS2e with G-Cush pads—sometimes I have enough of sticking stuff in my ears and need a change until I get back to it.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

PW cables seem to be all the rage lately. What's the appeal? I for one don't like the clothy look-- I much prefer more traditional looking Eletech/Effect Audio cables. YMMV Etc.

For me, it is mostly due to the product manufacturers bundling his products with theirs. Peter Wong did a great job selling his cables to Empire Ears, Unique Melody and Oriolus.

 

[claud W]

PW cables seem to be all the rage lately. What's the appeal? I for one don't like the clothy look-- I much prefer more traditional looking Eletech/Effect Audio cables. YMMV Etc.

PW cables are all the rage because some of the IEM manufacturers are including them with their TOTL IEMs. The lower priced PW cables ( -$500 ) are the more traditional style. Its only their best cables that have cloth sheathing. The # 10 and #5 also come in 8 wire versions without the cloth covering.

 

[Deezel177]

For me, it is mostly due to the product manufacturers bundling his products with theirs. Peter Wong did a great job selling his cables to Empire Ears, Unique Melody and Oriolus.

I’d also like to think the Singaporean audiophile community had a lot to do with that rise. Both the 2-wire and 4-wire 1960s were pretty much objects of worship back in 2016/2017. It was almost a given amongst the enthusiasts there that you’d automatically buy one once you got a flagship IEM. So, really, its future now as a companion piece to TOTL in-ears should’ve been pretty clear.

Music Sanctuary (PW’s Singaporean dealer) were also the ones who got guys like Nic at THL, Linus at HFN and Alex Twister to review them, which only spread the word further westwards. Andrew picking them up at MusicTeck was the icing on the cake.

I’d also like to take credit as the guy who introduced Jack and Dean at EE to the 2-wire 1960s, specifically paired with their IEMs. But, what they did afterwards with the hardware on the Stormbreaker is absolutely on another level.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I’d also like to think the Singaporean audiophile community had a lot to do with that rise. Both the 2-wire and 4-wire 1960s were pretty much objects of worship back in 2016/2017. It was almost a given amongst the enthusiasts there that you’d automatically buy one once you got a flagship IEM. So, really, its future now as a companion piece to TOTL in-ears should’ve been pretty clear.

Music Sanctuary (PW’s Singaporean dealer) were also the ones who got guys like Nic at THL, Linus at HFN and Alex Twister to review them, which only spread the word further westwards. Andrew picking them up at MusicTeck was the icing on the cake.

I’d also like to take credit as the guy who introduced Jack and Dean at EE to the 2-wire 1960s, specifically paired with their IEMs. But, what they did afterwards with the hardware on the Stormbreaker is absolutely on another level.

Thanks for the history lesson. Singapore definitely has an outsized impact on the global audiophile market relative to their population. I love my PW 1960s cables. I own 4 of them.

 

[fzman]

1. How much does one have to spend on audio gear to be able to enjoy music through it?
2. How much performance is available in the market, at various price tiers?

Seems like some people think 1&2 are relevant to each other -- others not so much. Do you need a Lambo to commute 2 miles to work every day? Do you need designer brand clothing? cosmetics? metal body ornaments? fancy furnishings, great drugs and booze? What brings you to the hobby? What keeps you here? What chases you away?

 

[Rockwell75]

1. How much does one have to spend on audio gear to be able to enjoy music through it?

Depends on the person and their experience haha. Some people are content with Apple wireless, others need much more than that. 10 years ago I would have said $200, nowadays that number is probably closer to $2000.

2. How much performance is available in the market, at various price tiers?

IMHO there is a consistent and steady increase until about $1.5K...beyond that improvements are very incremental and often highly specialized/skewed towards technicalities.

What brings you to the hobby? What keeps you here? What chases you away?

Music, gear, and community.

 

[claud W]

I will admit to having Prudence, Socrates and Fortitude Eletech cables as well as PWA # 10 and #10 8 wire, #5 and #5 8 wire, Saladin, Loki and Loki 8 wire , Monile 1950s several ALO cables and two Norne and 2 PlusSound , three Effect and a boatload of ChiFi cables that do the job on -$100 IEMs.

Here is my bit of advice: Most of the time, when you buy an IEM, its included cable has a 3.5 single ended connector to your DAP. Find a decent cable with a balanced 2.5 mm or 4.4 mm and buy it for your new IEM. REMEMBER Your DAP puts out TWICE the power through a BALANCED connection. Plenty of power gives your IEM its best chance to sound good.

 

[Neweymatt]

I have never noticed a difference in sound when changing cables but the experience is a lot better with a nice cable. The bl-03 or tin T2 for example are a much better listening experience with better cables imo.

You know, the BL-03 is the only thing I've heard where even a modest NiceHCK cable upgrade made a noticeable difference, largely because the stock cable is just so incredibly awful.

 

[mashuto]

1. How much does one have to spend on audio gear to be able to enjoy music through it?
2. How much performance is available in the market, at various price tiers?

Seems like some people think 1&2 are relevant to each other -- others not so much. Do you need a Lambo to commute 2 miles to work every day? Do you need designer brand clothing? cosmetics? metal body ornaments? fancy furnishings, great drugs and booze? What brings you to the hobby? What keeps you here? What chases you away?

I would say approximately $5 dollars on number 1. There are some really excellent options out there for extremely cheap that you can just plug into your phone and enjoy. And they sound great. I have found more value (strictly sound quality wise) out of higher priced items. But spending more has not diminished in any way the enjoyment I get out of much cheaper products. For instance, I remarked in another thread recently that I have a pair of aftershokz aeropex. In terms of sound quality, not great. But I use them pretty much every day and I love them. Honestly probably my most used audio purchase. And I still find myself just as interested in a lot of lower priced offerings.

For number 2, thats a much harder question to answer because I dont think theres any real way to quantify performance in this hobby. There are some metrics you can follow, but its really hard to have anything that equates to "performance" or anything that makes something "better".

So, what brings me to the hobby? I enjoy music, I enjoy portable audio, and I really like getting new toys to play with.

What chases me away? So many things that I think are snake oil. So so so many things, and things that just seem accepted as fact here on this forum a lot of times. I also think a lot of the descriptions we read here are filled with hyperbole and exaggeration. In part because its really hard to describe audio in words, and in part because I tend to think "performance" is a WHOLE lot closer between high end and low end than people are willing to admit. And when I try certain high end things and can't hear these tiny nuanced things people are describing as huge changes, its a bit of a turn off. Especially when as with the answer above, my enjoyment level is absolutely not correlated to price.

I do still enjoy my few higher end purchases quite a lot. In part because I think a lot of that comes down to paying for the expertise of the tuning and the knowledge of how to combine certain components in an enjoyable way. Plus, I have to convince myself that they are worth it in some way otherwise this hobby would drive me mad.

Good questions!