[Scubadevils]

On the topic of diminishing returns, I’ve been listening to the SM2 by SonicMemory this morning and it is very much in the same camp as Turii Ti for about a 10th of the price - of course it’s not at the same level, but seriously impressive for around $230.

The SM2 is a highly resolving and very detailed set. Bass is certainly not a strong point in quantity, but very solid quality - sub has a gentle rumble that allows for a pleasant experience when called for, and likewise with mid bass where there’s a snappy and fast response - I would definitely not recommend this set with bass as a primary focus however. Mids are incredibly clear and detailed with wonderful timbre, there is excellent sense of air with precision imaging and layering of instruments. Treble extends beautifully with a lovely zing, and absolutely perfect for my modern classical library, or indeed for say acoustic focused music… it could touch harsh however for more energetic music. There is a good size stage, with ample room for even the most numerous of instrumental arrangements.

The shells are an odd shape and similar to Turii but I’ve had no issues with fit - I do like Symbio F though as you get a bit more low down, and pull back a smidgen up top.

Overall, a fantastic set for relatively low cost as a more specialised DD. Currently loving the wonderful ‘Autovia’ by Violeta Vicci on my N7.

SM2 with Satin Audio Athena.

 

[Scubadevils]

I’m currently traveling and took the smallest DAP I have along, the M6 Ultra. Sounds great, works with my headphone too. And the port is at the top of the device..

+1 on M6U… an ideal truly portable DAP without much compromise versus the TOTL bricks!

 

[gLer]

I appreciate your perspective. While I find synergy hunting fun, if I were to pay $4k for an IEM, I expect tizz to be controlled to a greater degree. I haven't heard any of those TOTL sets but (and I'm assuming you're not treble sensitive here) if you're telling me they all display harshness and sibilance then we need to start expecting more for our money from 'TOTL'.

There's another issue at play here too: many who drop big cash on TOTL IEMs want a 'wow' factor for their money. That means they need the set to do something different, and that almost always means diverging from 'safe' tuning.

Based on what I've read and those I've spoken to, Jewel is a good example of a TOTL with 'safe' tuning that's almost completely inoffensive across the board. It's also one of the first sets many owners dropped because it started sounding 'boring' after a while, especially having purchased similarly expensive IEMs that do push the limits, or veer away from safe and smooth.

I'm in the camp that wants smooth at any cost, and across the FR. A little more energy here or there is fine, but any harshness is a dealbreaker for me at any price, let alone the upper echelons. Sensitivities to certain FRs aside, the really popular sets of late have also been quite divisive: Mentor, Xe6, Ragnar, Trifecta. All have their wow factors, but it comes at a cost.

 

[ian91]

There's another issue at play here too: many who drop big cash on TOTL IEMs want a 'wow' factor for their money. That means they need the set to do something different, and that almost always means diverging from 'safe' tuning.

Based on what I've read and those I've spoken to, Jewel is a good example of a TOTL with 'safe' tuning that's almost completely inoffensive across the board. It's also one of the first sets many owners dropped because it started sounding 'boring' after a while, especially having purchased similarly expensive IEMs that do push the limits, or veer away from safe and smooth.

I'm the camp that wants smooth at any cost, and across the FR. A little more energy here or there is fine, but any harshness is a dealbreaker for me at any price, let alone the upper echelons. Sensitivities to certain FRs aside, the really popular sets of late have also been quite divisive: Mentor, Xe6, Ragnar, Trifecta. All have their wow factors, but it comes at a cost.

I think this is definitely factoring in. For myself, novelty tends to wear off quick, but I guess that's because I'm really after more realism and balance. Ultimately, what makes a set special for me is delivering that realism and balance but with 'musicality' (as subjective & abstract as that is). Like you, I expect a lack of shout, sibilance or harshness at a miniumum. TOTL should be offering boundary pushing technicalities while avoiding tonal flaws. At what point tuning choices become 'flaws' are subjective but when I'm chasing a synergy to quite liberally blunt, and not just refine an IEM, then maybe the tuning was flawed...

 

[phiemon]

I appreciate your perspective. While I find synergy hunting fun, if I were to pay $4k for an IEM, I expect tizz to be controlled to a greater degree. I haven't heard any of those TOTL sets but (and I'm assuming you're not treble sensitive here) if you're telling me they all display harshness and sibilance then we need to start expecting more for our money from 'TOTL'.

Now that I think about it, I actually have to agree with you. With such high prices and high level, you should not expect something like that.

On the other side, I have no idea about the subject, so I apologize if I'm about to ask nonsense. I thought harshness or sibilance would go hand in hand with the fact that the treble is pushed up - with all the advantages (like resolution and airiness) that such a situation brings. That's another reason why this circumstance - up to a point - has never bothered me. Am I mistaken in this thought?

There's another issue at play here too: many who drop big cash on TOTL IEMs want a 'wow' factor for their money. That means they need the set to do something different, and that almost always means diverging from 'safe' tuning.

Based on what I've read and those I've spoken to, Jewel is a good example of a TOTL with 'safe' tuning that's almost completely inoffensive across the board. It's also one of the first sets many owners dropped because it started sounding 'boring' after a while, especially having purchased similarly expensive IEMs that do push the limits, or veer away from safe and smooth.

I'm in the camp that wants smooth at any cost, and across the FR. A little more energy here or there is fine, but any harshness is a dealbreaker for me at any price, let alone the upper echelons. Sensitivities to certain FRs aside, the really popular sets of late have also been quite divisive: Mentor, Xe6, Ragnar, Trifecta. All have their wow factors, but it comes at a cost.

Jewel may have a safe tuning, but for me personally it is at such a high level that it is just fun to listen to. Also, Jewel is absolutely free of fatigue (precisely because of the tamed highs), and that for me is now unique in itself compared to other TOTLs.
You also wrote yourself that other TOTLs so special in themselves (like Trifecta, Xe6, Mentor) do stand out, but this comes at a price. The question is whether you are willing to pay that price.

 

[Scubadevils]

I think this is definitely factoring in. For myself, novelty tends to wear off quick, but I guess that's because I'm really after more realism and balance. Ultimately, what makes a set special for me is delivering that realism and balance but with 'musicality' (as subjective & abstract as that is). Like you, I expect a lack of shout, sibilance or harshness at a miniumum. TOTL should be offering boundary pushing technicalities while avoiding tonal flaws. At what point tuning choices become 'flaws' are subjective but when I'm chasing a synergy to quite liberally blunt, and not just refine an IEM, then maybe the tuning was flawed...

100% agree - I’ve found unacceptable subjective flaws with pretty much every TOTL set I’ve tried and ultimately cannot justify the cost versus whatever issues I’ve encountered. Hence why I’ve pulled back for now and enjoying what I own, and occasionally dipping back in… A5000 now on the way, very keen to hear it!

 

[Garney]

I think this is definitely factoring in. For myself, novelty tends to wear off quick, but I guess that's because I'm really after more realism and balance. Ultimately, what makes a set special for me is delivering that realism and balance but with 'musicality' (as subjective & abstract as that is). Like you, I expect a lack of shout, sibilance or harshness at a miniumum. TOTL should be offering boundary pushing technicalities while avoiding tonal flaws. At what point tuning choices become 'flaws' are subjective but when I'm chasing a synergy to quite liberally blunt, and not just refine an IEM, then maybe the tuning was flawed...

I resonate with the bolded bit here. I can completely understand in wanting to refine or further accentuate an IEMs character with cables and DAPs. I've come to find that synergy in the chain is quite important. But when said ancillary components are essentially required to "fix" what are otherwise undesirable traits or flaws of the base tuning that's where I'm lost. Especially when often times these "fixes" cost as much or more than the IEM itself.

 

[phiemon]

Be that as it may, it is clear that perfection does/can not exist, and that we should probably try to enjoy more what we have. We are probably too spoiled and here there is a danger of losing sight of what is essential: namely, the enjoyment of music.

 

[552609]

I was just trying to be funny, since you wrote before:
"Man, no one seems to know what "subjectively" means "
So I figure writing "this is YOUR opinion" would be funny. Subjectively and all.
I guess if I have to explain the joke - it was not as funny as I thought...

Np, you're good - it's not you, I totally got your joke. I was trying to be funny as well. Mutual fail bud

 

[ian91]

On the other side, I have no idea about the subject, so I apologize if I'm about to ask nonsense. I thought harshness or sibilance would go hand in hand with the fact that the treble is pushed up - with all the advantages (like resolution and airiness) that such a situation brings. That's another reason why this circumstance - up to a point - has never bothered me. Am I mistaken in this thought?

I refer to sibilance as a vocal trait, a 'sss' and it often comes hand in hand with harshness, but not always. For me harshness is somewhere beyond clarity and definition and into a gritty, metallic sound that's usually caused by an overaccentuated lower treble across the board.

 

[552609]

Why? I think spending $3700 on a DAP to tame a treble energy peak in a $4500 IEM makes perfect sense. This is the way.

It didn't tame it for me. Made it worse. Ymmv

 

[Scubadevils]

Be that as it may, it is clear that perfection does not exist, and that we should probably try to enjoy more what we have. We are probably too spoiled and here there is a danger of losing sight of what is essential: namely, the enjoyment of music.

Exactly - I absolutely fell into a trap of constant chasing and my enjoyment of music suffered as a consequence, especially with the higher end costly hunt.

I’m still enjoying experimenting at lower price points as part of the hobby, but with more focus on appreciation of my love for music and the synergy of my collection with my library. It’s less stressful and less damaging financially playing in these lower segments too

I must say however the new Kinera is intriguing - and while it won’t be cheap, it’ll likely be a compelling offering versus the various TOTL sets on the market.

 

[gLer]

I refer to sibilance as a vocal trait, a 'sss' and it often comes hand in hand with harshness, but not always. For me harshness is somewhere beyond clarity and definition and into a gritty, metallic sound that's usually caused by an overaccentuated lower treble across the board.

There's also another factor: recording and mastering quality. Sometimes issues like sibilance are baked in to a track, and TOTL IEMs with heightened abilities tend to exacerbate rather than alleviate the issues.

 

[phiemon]

I refer to sibilance as a vocal trait, a 'sss' and it often comes hand in hand with harshness, but not always. For me harshness is somewhere beyond clarity and definition and into a gritty, metallic sound that's usually caused by an overaccentuated lower treble across the board.

I am very aware that I could have said nonsense. And yes, I confirm that I have always heard sibilance and harshness especially on my test tracks. In other tracks the problem is more or less pronounced - tending to be much, much less pronounced or at least not so noticeable that it (really) bothers me.

Two example of my test tracks:
Harshness: from about 0:36 https://tidal.com/browse/track/282660852 ("something in the way...")
Sibilance: actually every "S" https://tidal.com/browse/track/26803526 (first of all, I would like to know how the WhoMadeWho (!!) came to collaborate with Arisa (?)....), this is very bad!

 

[twister6]

The problem are definitely the sources in my opinion. I tested the N7 and N8ii last week and despite FT, MM was just not audible, as harsh and sibilant (and thin in the mids) as it has been. I also read that the RS8 with MM would be for me a no-go for the same reason (I think with Twister6). I am (becoming) quite sensitive to such a problem, and I can tell you that I don't find MM (+ FT) with the SP3000 and CA1000T problematic at all.

Other question: have you (or someone) tried running the Jewel with the cable from the Mentor? I have the impression I like it better than with FT!?

By the way: happy 1st of May!

EDIT: Yes, Twister6 about the source pairing with MM: "Hiby RS8 – the sound signature and tonality are closer to LPGT, balanced tuning with a natural revealing tonality. I had it set to Class AB, but had to turn off the Turbo switch, otherwise mid-treble energy was a bit overwhelming. The soundstage is big and expanded." (https://twister6.com/2023/02/07/unique-melody-um-mentor-multiverse/3/)

Indeed, it is. I just went back to try it again, and RS8 with Turbo mode on still makes MM mid-treble sound a bit overwhelming to my ears. You turn the Turbo off, and it's perfect. Now, with N7 the MM treble is somewhere in-between of RS8 turbo on and off, giving the sound more clarity and higher resolution. You can give MM a bit more body switching N7 from Class AB to Class A, though that narrows the perception of soundstage a bit as well. Only had SP3k on loan for review, borrowed twice, so can't compare it now, but from my notes the pair up of SP3k with MM was among the best I tried.