The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[gLer]

Am I assuming correctly that's only the case for Android DAPs? (=> streaming => need for latests and greatest apps => that need better/faster OS => rinse & repeat)

drftr

Not really. The development of apps and OS releases is actually very slow. Only a small handful of DAPs are using Android 12 (not even the latest Android), and even then, all are still stuck on older midrange hardware (Snapdragon 66x).

I think it's just market segmentation at play. Must be lots of demand out there, and that's before you take into account non-DAP sources and dongles.

Streaming has also splintered and fuelled DAP growth at the same time. You need Android for streaming (and saving to local for offline listening), but what I'm not seeing is improvements in non-streaming options (multiple card slots or 1-2TB internal storage options). I don't think we'll be seeing much of that either going forward. It's all going to be streaming or bust, at least for the mainstream players.

 

[Auricon]

DAPs really are becoming like cell phones-- a different iteration of every model each year.

Ja, though it's great to see brands innovating and bringing new tech to different tiers and importance on amplification – eg Cayin N7 has been a standout with 1bit DSD DAC and discreet class A/AB amplification.

 

[drftr]

Not really.

Always appreciating your thoughts I do wonder which non-Android DAPs keep refreshing on an annual base. Did you have specific brands in mind that follow what I considered the upgrade rush?

EDIT: Perhaps Astell?

drftr

 

[aaf evo]

Always appreciating your thoughts I do wonder which non-Android DAPs keep refreshing on an annual base. Did you have specific brands in mind that follow what I considered the upgrade rush?

EDIT: Perhaps Astell?

drftr

AK are android based daps, they’re just overlayed with their own UI and closed off to full android access.

 

[Rockwell75]

Am I assuming correctly that's only the case for Android DAPs? (=> streaming => need for latests and greatest apps => that need better/faster OS => rinse & repeat)

drftr

I'm not sure I've just noticed that it's turning into a bit of a trend with Shanling, Hiby, Cayin and I guess it's long since been a thing for Ibasso.

 

[gLer]

Always appreciating your thoughts I do wonder which non-Android DAPs keep refreshing on an annual base. Did you have specific brands in mind that follow what I considered the upgrade rush?

EDIT: Perhaps Astell?

drftr

I meant that the proliferation of Android DAPs isn't because of Android or apps. Android DAPs are just the mainstream now, so that's where all the growth is happening. I think non-Android DAPs, aside from a few very niche products, are going to die out eventually, or at least get refreshed very infrequently.

 

[drftr]

I think non-Android DAPs, aside from a few very niche products, are going to die out eventually, or at least get refreshed very infrequently.

I have a -1 wk DAP experience and thought that slow upgrade cycle was basically by design. But that's probably because I haven't lived through any upgrade cycles like you guys have. I thought certain brands focussed more on longevity but bigger upgrade steps because they see a small but determined clientele. A bit like tube amps: No need to upgrade something on an annual base that's working for 100 years already and still gets a lot of love. That made me think that brands like perhaps L&P, Lotoo, what have you, would still keep their fanbase if they upgraded once every 3-5 years.

drftr

 

[Onurb8690]

@Damz87 have you added any new iem to your list yet?

 

[gLer]

I have a -1 wk DAP experience and thought that slow upgrade cycle was basically by design. But that's probably because I haven't lived through any upgrade cycles like you guys have. I thought certain brands focussed more on longevity but bigger upgrade steps because they see a small but determined clientele. A bit like tube amps: No need to upgrade something on an annual base that's working for 100 years already and still gets a lot of love. That made me think that brands like perhaps L&P, Lotoo, what have you, would still keep their fanbase if they upgraded once every 3-5 years.

drftr

Those brands DO refresh on much longer cycles. It's mainly the new breed of Android DAPs that get refreshed in yearly cycles, sometimes less.

 

[maegnificant]

Just Pre-Ordered my third TGXEarbud some peoples description of Totem sounded too enticing not to try them out.

Not a great decision financially, but Serratus and Carbon have really strengthened my faith in earbuds can recommend for indoor listening.

 

[drftr]

Will TGXears be represented at CanJam Singapore? I don't remember seeing the name. Would really be a pity to miss out on!

drftr

 

[552609]

Just got the Xenns Up, S8, and Viento B in - that's how I'd rank all 3 so far. Xenns Up is surprising me with how good it is.

 

[stacey]

I have a -1 wk DAP experience and thought that slow upgrade cycle was basically by design.

I wouldn’t say that. A lot of it may have to do with the fact that developing a new UI/OS is very resource intensive vs just using Android, and unlike phones, DAPs aren’t packing in new features, new chipsets, OS updates on a yearly basis.

Sony is probably the largest DAP manufacturer ( They also are much more likely to get access to the latest Qualcomm SoCs) and they don’t update their stuff that frequently.

 

[CodenameBK201]

I meant that the proliferation of Android DAPs isn't because of Android or apps. Android DAPs are just the mainstream now, so that's where all the growth is happening. I think non-Android DAPs, aside from a few very niche products, are going to die out eventually, or at least get refreshed very infrequently.

Pretty much this. If things go the proper direction, everything'll be dual-boot, which is really the best of both worlds. I'm just as fine without streaming apps, android functionality is mostly just an extra step letting me copy stuff from my phone to my dap without an intermediary. In a perfect world, we'd have swappable batteries as a standard and I'd stop caring entirely about battery life limitations.

 

[drftr]

Pretty much this. If things go the proper direction, everything'll be dual-boot, which is really the best of both worlds. I'm just as fine without streaming apps, android functionality is mostly just an extra step letting me copy stuff from my phone to my dap without an intermediary. In a perfect world, we'd have swappable batteries as a standard and I'd stop caring entirely about battery life limitations.

Thing is, dual-boot and swappable batteries are mostly interesting for the consumer. For the producer? Not much. How many decades did it take before all computers became dual-boot? There's your answer. Unfortunately.

drftr