[blotmouse]

Don’t confuse power with quality. IEM’s only require millivolts to be driven properly. That does not mean a high quality amp cannot make them sound better.

I lol a little when folks are like "I NEED at least (this much) to properly drive my iem"
The bigger iron usually comes with bigger mW, but it isn't why the iem scales so nicely.

Kind of like muscularity and strength. There is a close correlation, and one usually follows the other, but it can also be independent due to other factors.
A boutique class A amp with miserly power ratings can sound absolutely huge compared to a class D of 3x the wattage, for example.

 

[endless402]

Are you aware of any write-ups about sonical differences with the WM1A? (possible incorrectly assuming they would hold up for the WM2Z / WM2A difference as well)

I haven't looked into DAPs yet at this point but I do remember picking up remarks on this very thread about the Sony DAPs being warmer than other brands in general, so it may be a good starting point for me for adding some buttery chocolate to the U18t. That, together with a more organic sounding cable that slightly attenuates treble plus the FiR ATOM Gold/N17/whatever their real name to create a point between APEX M15 and M20 should make me a happy camper, I guess.

Tnx...

drftr

I got my gold + atom module today. I think you may like it for the U18t...more mid focused, with a minor bass bump. So it's sort of in between M15 and M20.

 

[Bosk]

Last week, I A/B tested all of my top IEMs with my desktop rig which is

Bluesound node 2i > Chord Hugo M Scaler > Chord Hugo TT2 > Ampsandsound Rockwell > IEMs on 8, 16 and 32 ohm taps.

The top 3 IEMS on this rig were in no particular order. IER-Z1R, U12t and Annihilator. All of these IEMs scaled up better than the rest and the biggest difference is how much more open the Sound stage presented itself. Since the tube amp is very mids focused, it could also be that these IEMs sound better with a warmer amp. Traillii, Jewel, Red Halo, all which sound better to my ear on my portable systems sounded not as good as the Z1R, U12t and Anni on my desktop system.

Fascinating insights! I would love to read more impressions of IEMs paired with desktop tube amps in particular, having long speculated that modern IEMs are so capable many would surely scale remarkably well with higher-quality amplification. There is only so much circuitry you can cram into a DAP-sized space regardless of budget.

Even something like the humble 7hz Timeless would be intriguing to hear in such circumstances, and as for the Supermoon... who knows what untapped potential is there?

 

[fejnomit]

Fascinating insights! I would love to read more impressions of IEMs paired with desktop tube amps in particular, having long speculated that modern IEMs are so capable many would surely scale remarkably well with higher-quality amplification. There is only so much circuitry you can cram into a DAP-sized space regardless of budget.

Even something like the humble 7hz Timeless would be intriguing to hear in such circumstances, and as for the Supermoon... who knows what untapped potential is there?

Just but keep in mind that more circuitry is not always a good thing. A good tube amp has remarkably little "circuitry" if done right. Also the levels of distortion achieved by the (albeit small) amp sections of today's TOTL daps is vanishingly low and their power far exceeds any IEM transducer's needs. So I guess I would say that for me it's the overall quality of the amp that matters most - the quality of the parts and the intention behind the circuitry - what sound the manufacturer is going for - what technologies are chosen and why - that matters most. All of this is of course directly related to your sound-signature preferences and the type of amp you find works best with your IEMs, regardless of size or power. Just cause it's bigger and sits on a desk doesn't mean it's better! And I honestly don't think there is some huge untapped potential inside an IEM that today's TOTL Cayin or LP or iBasso DAPs aren't already "tapping." Something like Directly Heated Triodes in a desk-top tube-amp present a sound that no DAP can achieve because of the sheer size of the tubes and the circuitry they need - but that doesn't mean it's going to sound better per se. Hope that makes sense. Cheers.

 

[jwilliamhurst]

Fascinating insights! I would love to read more impressions of IEMs paired with desktop tube amps in particular, having long speculated that modern IEMs are so capable many would surely scale remarkably well with higher-quality amplification. There is only so much circuitry you can cram into a DAP-sized space regardless of budget.

Even something like the humble 7hz Timeless would be intriguing to hear in such circumstances, and as for the Supermoon... who knows what untapped potential is there?

I used Timeless with a desktop R2R rig with a tube amp. It didn’t scale. Hah!

 

[ljnew]

Last week, I A/B tested all of my top IEMs with my desktop rig which is

Bluesound node 2i > Chord Hugo M Scaler > Chord Hugo TT2 > Ampsandsound Rockwell > IEMs on 8, 16 and 32 ohm taps.

The top 3 IEMS on this rig were in no particular order. IER-Z1R, U12t and Annihilator. All of these IEMs scaled up better than the rest and the biggest difference is how much more open the Sound stage presented itself. Since the tube amp is very mids focused, it could also be that these IEMs sound better with a warmer amp. Traillii, Jewel, Red Halo, all which sound better to my ear on my portable systems sounded not as good as the Z1R, U12t and Anni on my desktop system.

IMHO, U18s sounds better the lower the source. Cell phone = best. As i scale up the source, the mids seem to get too wide in comparison to the bass and treble.

Fascinating insights! I would love to read more impressions of IEMs paired with desktop tube amps in particular, having long speculated that modern IEMs are so capable many would surely scale remarkably well with higher-quality amplification. There is only so much circuitry you can cram into a DAP-sized space regardless of budget.

Even something like the humble 7hz Timeless would be intriguing to hear in such circumstances, and as for the Supermoon... who knows what untapped potential is there?

I have this puppy coming soon. Can't wait to see how this portable desktop tube pairs with iems!

 

[blotmouse]

IMHO, U18s sounds better the lower the source. Cell phone = best. As i scale up the source, the mids seem to get too wide in comparison to the bass and treble.

Interesting observation.
It’s supposed to be be free from any scale effect with the Lid tech, but I am not sure how well that works irl, or if I miss understood what that actually does.

 

[ljnew]

.

 

[Rockwell75]

Supermoon thoughts so far…I am quite certain it still needs to burn in and is sounding better and better each time I listen. Most likely brain burn in. I hear some metallic timbre on some sharp s sounds only so far and very few and far between I’m extremely impressed with the piano timbre. It sounds real like how I grew up in church hearing it very often. The bass is also great. It’s a different kind of bass. Like it’s speaking to you instead of just hearing or feeling it. You’re in conversation with it. It resolves deep. I am loving how supermoon can replay the music with precision and emotion at the same time. That is not an easy feat. It gives its own flavor to each and every type of music, love it or hate it. But I for one am loving the unique flavor it brings.
Mids are quite good especially guitars I quite enjoy, very textured with good bite. Micro dynamics are really good, peeling apart layers quite well and macro dynamics are just on the great side. Not amazing but still a lot better than some others even beyond this price point. The loud to quite moments are not as obvious(dynamic) as I would prefer but it’s also not a deal breaker by any means because the resolving nature of a single driver is beyond most of the most dynamic of monitors with multiple drivers. This is just my opinion.
The treble is so smooth to me. Sounds very analog. Maybe a bit dry at the highest registers in some classical tracks but still resolving so well. Nothing to complain about tbh.
The micro dynamics are just incredible. They literally suck you in. once i closed my eyes…it stretched me into a vortex that was all encompassing literally losing myself in the music. The macro dynamic shifts are subtle, they are there just more subtle. The micro dynamics and coherency of a single driver such as this also being so resolving is very addictive and takes you inside the music in a new way. It’s really hard to fault it for anything when it makes you connect with the music and your own emotions. It’s def an experience like I’m crawling inside of the music and letting it become apart of me. Very addicting even more so than any single dd I have heard. Honeymoon phase and all though.
Vocals have really nice center image. And imaging is pretty impressive as well. Will be taking these in for the next few weeks and I am interested how my thoughts will evolve. So far so good. And imo miles and miles ahead of the timeless. YMMV

Awesome impressions thank-you for sharing!

 

[klyzon]

Let us know if you get these and how they sound. I bought AEX07 and like them alot, though I still prefer Sony's much cheaper EP-EX11 to the Acoustunes now.

I think if you like the AEX07 you will like the AEX70 even more. Comfort wise it is top notch, can't feel it at all in my ears, on par or even better than spiral dots ++

Sound wise, bass will be slightly thinner compared to the AEX07, but overall sound is quite neutral, perhaps a tad added sparkle up top

 

[Frankie D]

Last week, I A/B tested all of my top IEMs with my desktop rig which is

Bluesound node 2i > Chord Hugo M Scaler > Chord Hugo TT2 > Ampsandsound Rockwell > IEMs on 8, 16 and 32 ohm taps.

The top 3 IEMS on this rig were in no particular order. IER-Z1R, U12t and Annihilator. All of these IEMs scaled up better than the rest and the biggest difference is how much more open the Sound stage presented itself. Since the tube amp is very mids focused, it could also be that these IEMs sound better with a warmer amp. Traillii, Jewel, Red Halo, all which sound better to my ear on my portable systems sounded not as good as the Z1R, U12t and Anni on my desktop system.

Interesting results. And As you previously said, with HP’s the sound will go up a level.

 

[twister6]

My friend, a craftsman of leather covers, knows how to curse from a photo. And I can already hear him mumbling something...

Are you talking about Valentin (of Valentinum cases)?

 

[drftr]

The bigger iron usually comes with bigger mW, but it isn't why the iem scales so nicely.

It can be though. Headroom is a real thing and especially if there's no complex crossover in the IEMs any extremely dynamic passage can suck way more power then you think would be possible. It often leads to what is called soft clipping. I'm actually wondering now whether this rhymes with what I mentioned yesterday in being disappointed in transient reproduction in IEMs in general. Hmm... Plenty of headscratchers lately.

I got my gold + atom module today. I think you may like it for the U18t...more mid focused, with a minor bass bump. So it's sort of in between M15 and M20.

LOL! Minutes ago I saw that mine is out for delivery today.

I used Timeless with a desktop R2R rig with a tube amp. It didn’t scale. Hah!

I would have thought it would because it's a very "honest" design. Perhaps the quality of materials used works against it? I don't have the experience with IEMs yet but for speakers I often got crazy good sounding setups with extremely cheap, plain, and honest shelf speakers (but on a good stand) with very simple crossovers (if at all) and pared with an 8 Watt triode tube amp costing 6 times more than the speakers did. Soooo smooth, musical, and involving. I honestly think that the less complex a speaker is the better it can scale, and I wonder whether it's the same with IEMs. It's almost a joke that I chose for an IEM with 16 18 drivers and no doubt a terribly complex crossover!

EDIT: 18 drivers that is of course.

drftr

 

[ljnew]

I would have thought it would because it's a very "honest" design. Perhaps the quality of materials used works against it? I don't have the experience with IEMs yet but for speakers I often got crazy good sounding setups with extremely cheap, plain, and honest shelf speakers (but on a good stand) with very simple crossovers (if at all) and pared with an 8 Watt triode tube amp costing 6 times more than the speakers did. Soooo smooth, musical, and involving. I honestly think that the less complex a speaker is the better it can scale, and I wonder whether it's the same with IEMs. It's almost a joke that I chose for an IEM with 16 drivers and no doubt a terribly complex crossover!

drftr

Which might be why you see a very simple single Sony 16mm Dynamic driver iem in this photo with the desktop setup vs my other high end iems (although they scale well too) . You might be on to something. .

"Soooo smooth, musical, and involving." is exactly what I was thinking while listening and exactly how I would describe it. Get out of my head! Lol

Timeless not a dynamic, might be different.

 

[dmphile]

I did something very naughty...

Incoming...this could be my end game if it meets/exceeds expectations. The largest purchase I've ever made for an IEM.