[chickenmcnug]

Fun little tidbit @Rockwell75 , teacher in Mandarin ‘老师’ (lao shi).

 

[SBranson]

Hopefully Branson packs a few more, but I'm taking the 220 MAX and my Thummim, with Satin Audio’s Zeus.

Ha.. took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.. I’ve always wondered if he’s some distant uncle..

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Ha.. took me a minute to figure out what you were talking about.. I’ve always wondered if he’s some distant uncle..

For your sake, I hope so!!!

 

[Wildcatsare1]

Fun little tidbit @Rockwell75 , teacher in Mandarin ‘老师’ (lao shi).

Shifu is what my Pai Lum Kung Fu Master taught us, but that's been a few years ago, am I not remembering correctly?

 

[chickenmcnug]

Shifu is what my Pai Lum Kung Fu Master taught us, but that's been a few years ago, am I not remembering correctly?

We have different words for different teachers I would say?

‘老师’ is in the context of your Maths teacher for example.

‘师父’ is used in the context for when someone is very profecient at particular craft and is more respectful if Im not wrong.

Then again I did not have a good opportunity to use Mandarin properly since 13 so

 

[Rockwell75]

Dude, you are such a great story teller. Great review. This is how you sell someone on an IEM. I hate you though. I haven't bought mine yet and now I won't be able to buy one cheap.

I am a high school teacher by trade & profession and I learned long ago that there is simply no better way than to effectively engage and hold an audience of teenagers-- or really any people-- than by telling a story, the more personally invested you are in the narrative the better. Telling a story facilitates a human connection and at the end of the day that is something we are all seeking vicariously through a lot of what we do.

Thank-you very much for your kinds words. Writing is just as much a hobby for me as listening to music & gear so these forums serve as a nice "multiple birds with one stone" platform for me to engage with others around things that I love. Ultimately this is a very personal hobby & journey for me but being able to connect with others and share my experiences in away that is interesting &/or helpful is in its own way just as satisfying as any gear.

This review supports my assertion that people buy on emotion.

At a certain level everything people do, I think, is in pursuit of some sort of emotional fulfilment. In this sense that statement is something of a tautology. With this understood I think people do things for all sorts of reasons. Chess is another hobby of mine. I enjoy playing, watching and studying it-- but, apart from the broad sense described, I don't think my motivations for pursuing this particular hobby are emotional-- it's more of an intellectual satisfaction.

This hobby on the other hand, as I have indicated at various times in my reviews & writings, is much more strictly about emotional fulfillment for me. My motivations for buying, searching, & keeping different pieces of gear are rooted in my desire to attain an emotional connection. My collective experience in this hobby the last couple years has shown me that there are many different ways to approach this hobby, some similar to mine, others not at all. I think for some people it's more about deriving the same sort of intellectual satisfaction that I derive from chess, for some it's both and for most it's something in between.

My reasons for trying to make distinctions like this, apart from the fact that my years of studying mathematics in university established in me the habit of trying to abstract patterns and symmetries out of whatever landscape (social or otherwise) I found myself inhabiting, is to try and get a sense of where others are coming from so that a) I'm able to make better recommendations to people and, most importantly, b) so that I don't take it too personally with others like totally different stuff than me and aren't at all enchanted by the stuff that I love in the same way that I am.

I saw this the other day and I thought to myself how often I've tried to keep this in mind while participating in these forums.

Had a little time to myself this morning, and thought I'd try something different with the Elysium, so I wired it up with Eletech’s Plato, and my trusty M8 (with deference to the M8 sifu, @Rockwell75. Man, what a great combination, listened to Simon and Garfunkel’s Scarborough/Cantice, I've heard this song a thousand times, starting with my Aunt Kathy’s console/record player in 1968 to the present. I know that “I’m hearing things I've never heard, but here it's “times infinity!” Their layering and depth are truly spectacular!

Cheers man. Elysium + M8 is a summit fi pairing surely. Though I haven't tried everything my sense is that you have to go all the way to the Bird to equal or best Ely at a lot of what she does best.

@Rockwell75 Thank you for sharing your thought and ideas. A thoroughly enjoyable read. I really like how wide-reaching this article branches. From tuning philosophy or style, technical analysis, to personal matchability (even comparison to food and flavors). Very interesting

Thanks man these sentiments mean a lot to me. I was always more of a philosopher at heart than anything however I needed to put food on the table so I studied mathematics with an aim to get into CompSci. I found shorly that I needed more human connection than that would offer so I pursued a career in teaching where I learned that the best way to connect with my audience was to invest personally in what I was doing and tell stories. This forum and hobby, in their own way, have allowed me to indulge in much of what I've loved and learned in my adult life, and I'm very grateful for that.

And it makes you wonder whether something more advanced with state-of-the-art technology could always beat a masterful tuning using old trusty methods. Personally I think that's not always the case.

I don't think so either because too much technology gets in the way of the expression of humanity-- which behind it all is what our hearts and souls, at least those of us in this hobby for primarily emotional reasons, are really seeking a connection to in this hobby. I had a friend in university whose dad was a veritable Johnny B Goode, that is to say a guitar prodigy from the backwoods country of BC whose style embodied stark simplicity. Bobby Stewart was his name (here is a crappy recording of him playing live in the 70s for anyone interested). He was very well known in the guitar community-- recording with Colin James, Robin Trower, Jerry Doucette, and others all of whom regarded him with astonished admiration...though he never really "made it big" on his own. I went to watch him and another guy play live one night in 1997. The one guy had a full rig with stacks, effects and all sorts of pyrotechnics. He sounded brilliant, highly technical, accomplished, and so on. But when Bobby stepped up after with just his guitar, amp and so much bloody feeling...there was no comparison, though technically speaking they were easily on the same level as players. This contrast was not lost on me at the time and it's left me with a lifelong appreciation for expression of humanity over technical marvel, no matter in what domain I'm looking in.

I believe IEMs are merely tools or lenses to access music portably. They are a mean to a rendering of a recording, and via that mean we're able to enjoy music.

I agree, with the caveat that I don't necessarily subscribe to that ideal of "totally and completely faithful to the original recording", which I'm coming to believe is mostly not really possible. The key word in your statement to me is rendering because it seems to me to give an IEM, and those tuning it, license to color or interpret the music in a certain way...this to me is where the true artistry of tuning comes in.

And when it comes to enjoyment, it's not all subjective in my opinion. There needs to be one part fidelity or faithful reproduction of a sound (i.e. technicalities), and one part texture of the tone/timbre (essences). I think a portrayal of a sound can be alikened to a painting, in that there is the outline which defines an image, and there is the color of said image. It is what makes something beautiful in my humble opinion, the blending of both symmetry and asymmetry.. Because a color is just that, a color. And there is no absolutely right color, it all depends on the perceiver and their estimation

An IEM could also be alikened to a watch. In that despite them having the same function (i.e. playing music, showing time), the manner of which they perform differ according to each their own style. Why is the more expensive watches so expensive, isn't due to the fact that they're capable of showing time significantly 'better' to anyone from any culture viewing it, if that's the case then digital watches should be more expensive than mechanical ones. The way I see it it's more of the artistic and historical value attached to each. It really all comes down to preferences in the end. Just as how I view my $10 digital watch as 'better' in a sense, than a $2000 mechanical one. Different people like different things don't they

Beautifully put.

Fun little tidbit @Rockwell75 , teacher in Mandarin ‘老师’ (lao shi).

Thanks for the clarification

 

[KutuzovGambit]

Chess is another hobby of mine.

Small world.

 

[fzman]

Small world.

wow - a person with the word 'gambit' is his screen name likes chess -- I didn;t see that coming!! lol

 

[fzman]

I am a high school teacher by trade & profession and I learned long ago that there is simply no better way than to effectively engage and hold an audience of teenagers-- or really any people-- than by telling a story, the more personally invested you are in the narrative the better. Telling a story facilitates a human connection and at the end of the day that is something we are all seeking vicariously through a lot of what we do.

Thank-you very much for your kinds words. Writing is just as much a hobby for me as listening to music & gear so these forums serve as a nice "multiple birds with one stone" platform for me to engage with others around things that I love. Ultimately this is a very personal hobby & journey for me but being able to connect with others and share my experiences in away that is interesting &/or helpful is in its own way just as satisfying as any gear.



At a certain level everything people do, I think, is in pursuit of some sort of emotional fulfilment. In this sense that statement is something of a tautology. With this understood I think people do things for all sorts of reasons. Chess is another hobby of mine. I enjoy playing, watching and studying it-- but, apart from the broad sense described, I don't think my motivations for pursuing this particular hobby are emotional-- it's more of an intellectual satisfaction.

This hobby on the other hand, as I have indicated at various times in my reviews & writings, is much more strictly about emotional fulfillment for me. My motivations for buying, searching, & keeping different pieces of gear are rooted in my desire to attain an emotional connection. My collective experience in this hobby the last couple years has shown me that there are many different ways to approach this hobby, some similar to mine, others not at all. I think for some people it's more about deriving the same sort of intellectual satisfaction that I derive from chess, for some it's both and for most it's something in between.

My reasons for trying to make distinctions like this, apart from the fact that my years of studying mathematics in university established in me the habit of trying to abstract patterns and symmetries out of whatever landscape (social or otherwise) I found myself inhabiting, is to try and get a sense of where others are coming from so that a) I'm able to make better recommendations to people and, most importantly, b) so that I don't take it too personally with others like totally different stuff than me and aren't at all enchanted by the stuff that I love in the same way that I am.

I saw this the other day and I thought to myself how often I've tried to keep this in mind while participating in these forums.









I don't think so either because too much technology gets in the way of the expression of humanity-- which behind it all is what our hearts and souls, at least those of us in this hobby for primarily emotional reasons, are really seeking a connection to in this hobby. I had a friend in university whose dad was a veritable Johnny B Goode, that is to say a guitar prodigy from the backwoods country of BC whose style embodied stark simplicity. <snip> I went to watch him and another guy play live one night in 1997. The one guy had a full rig with stacks, effects and all sorts of pyrotechnics. He sounded brilliant, highly technical, accomplished, and so on. But when Bobby stepped up after with just his guitar, amp and so much bloody feeling...there was no comparison, though technically speaking they were easily on the same level as players. This contrast was not lost on me at the time and it's left me with a lifelong appreciation for expression of humanity over technical marvel, no matter in what domain I'm looking in.



I agree, with the caveat that I don't necessarily subscribe to that ideal of "totally and completely faithful to the original recording", which I'm coming to believe is mostly not really possible. The key word in your statement to me is rendering because it seems to me to give an IEM, and those tuning it, license to color or interpret the music in a certain way...this to me is where the true artistry of tuning comes in.

I tried to tweeze out the two comments you make that I wanted to comment on. As for the guitarist example - I wonder what wouold have resulted if the two players used each others gear for the performance (not the guitars, just the rest of the stuff) I get the point you make, and don't necesaarily disagree with that, but still wonder whether the primal guy could make the gear sing his tune, vs it stunting it. I think there are brilliant designers who use various 'tools' to get their results - materials, tuning, good ear, enclosures, crossover parts, wire, etc.... it's not an either-or, it is science PLUS art.

As far as the 'faithful to the recording' thing - whether it is impossible or not has little bearing on whether it should or shouldn't be a goal. There are metaphysical questions about what that sound is, and epistemological questions regarding how we would know what that sound is. Nevertheless, I do not want a frying pan that makes all my food taste like mustard. I just want it to fry my food....

 

[Rockwell75]

I tried to tweeze out the two comments you make that I wanted to comment on. As for the guitarist example - I wonder what wouold have resulted if the two players used each others gear for the performance (not the guitars, just the rest of the stuff) I get the point you make, and don't necesaarily disagree with that, but still wonder whether the primal guy could make the gear sing his tune, vs it stunting it. I think there are brilliant designers who use various 'tools' to get their results - materials, tuning, good ear, enclosures, crossover parts, wire, etc.... it's not an either-or, it is science PLUS art.

100% agree thank-you for clarifying this. I think what I was originally thinking got a bit lost in what I ended up writing. The main point I'd like to make in retrospect is that it will always be possible to attain summit fi artistic expression using the simplest of means as ultimately it's something that comes from within and isn't bound to external forms. The guitar player was meant as an example of someone doing this-- I wasn't meaning to imply also that someone making use of all the tech available to them couldn't produce as potent and accomplished sound. Someone like David Gilmour is a prime example in the realm of guitar playing. In fact I think Pink Floyd originally began as a band making sounds more so than music.

As far as the 'faithful to the recording' thing - whether it is impossible or not has little bearing on whether it should or shouldn't be a goal.

I think there is some ambiguity sometimes around what this means. It is often assumed that faithful to the recording implies an absolutely uncolored sound that milks every nuance and ounce of detail & resolution out of it. I think the marketing side of this hobby, especially as you get to high end, seems directed along these lines. Another way to interpret the term is simply as a presentation of the recording that embodies its original spirit and which connects with and moves people. This is where you get into the artistry of coloring sound, which means there is going to be a degree of interpretation, artistic or otherwise. A consequence of this line of thinking, seemingly, is that it's possible to have a $600 IEM produce sound that is no less faithful to the recording than a $6000 IEM.

I just want it to fry my food....

I want more than that, I think. It's not enough that my coffee maker just makes coffee...I want one that that gives me the best possible experience relative to how I like it.

 

[fzman]

I think there is some ambiguity sometimes around what this means. It is often assumed that faithful to the recording implies an absolutely uncolored sound that milks every nuance and ounce of detail & resolution out of it. I think the marketing side of this hobby, especially as you get to high end, seems directed along these lines. Another way to interpret the term is simply as a presentation of the recording that embodies its original spirit and which connects with and moves people. This is where you get into the artistry of coloring sound, which means there is going to be a degree of interpretation, artistic or otherwise. A consequence of this line of thinking, seemingly, is that it's possible to have a $600 IEM produce sound that is no less faithful to the recording than a $6000 IEM.



I want more than that, I think. It's not enough that my coffee maker just makes coffee...I want one that that gives me the best possible experience relative to how I like it.

I think accuracy to the recording is not about detail or not deail, etc., it is simply what it says. If we talk about a painting, rather than a recording, we want the gallery to 'show ius the painting', not (re)interpret it - proper lighting, wall-color, haning height etc...

A recording is an aesthetic object, created to be a specific way. How you hear it is up to you - what you like up to you. But i thnk the water gets muddy when you veer from using the actual recording as a metric. (My opinion, of course.)

The beans, water, specific grind determine the bulk of the flavor. A coffee maker that makes every bean and grind taste the same may make you happy (if it's your specific taste profile) but that's pretty much impossible - or the thing's broken/malfunctioning. I want the frying pan to heat the food evenly, and allow me to control the 'cooking'. I do not want the frying pan to make everything taste like, e.g., chicken (seems like most things already do anmyway lol).

 

[SBranson]

I was musing privately with @Rockwell75 about Traillii ownership and my difficulties with the cost… He mentioned I should post it so if you can stomach the long winded rant…


“I guess I have this idea that I’ll try something like the Bravado 2 again and it will tick enough boxes to let me downgrade…
But the Traillii is really under my skin. I have been slowly going through old albums and songs and it’s not only the detail and clarity that is unmasking songs but it’s showing all the elements that make the song great. The clarity of each instrument lets me hear what it contributes to the song. The song never loses its majesty as other detailed iems have done for me … but I’m hearing what amazing chords and chord progressions in Joni Mitchell’s albums because I can hear the constituent notes of the chords. The. A guitar track will back it and I hear how it’s there to alter the emotion a bit, to convey the larger story she has crafted in each of her songs. This isn’t just a band that plays a part, each part has specific purpose to the song’s story.

I’m reminded of a soundtrack and how the music creates the tension and dissolution of the visual narrative, often unconsciously. Some music as we listen is like that. So many unconscious elements put together to create a song that we see in its gestalt. Often it’s because the musicians are essentially “asleep at the wheel” regardless of how good and novel they are. They channel a muse but it’s essentially unconscious. There is something to be said for that but that’s a primitive shamanistic (not pejoratively) approach. There is an idea of music as sacred though as a conscious form of prayer, not idolatrous prayer but real prayer for the sake of that which is greater, not our part in it.
In some ways, we profane music with it’s constancy and our control over it, in terms of accessibility. The ephemeral nature of a tone and its relationship to time and ultimately death is a means to reverence and appreciation of life. To know that to feel is to live.
The Traillii makes me wonder if I shouldn’t sell it and focus on learning an instrument… but then is an instrument learned for oneself another form of idolatry and selfishness? Is not the purpose of the musician like that of a priest or holy man? The conversation between performer and audience is why society developed its stratification, to honour the separation of tasks in a society. It’s our animal instinct that corrupts the society to be predatory.

As is obvious, my roots (genetic) are western Judeo-Christian as the sensual is a conduit to separation from the divine and therefore a vulnerability.

I sit here in a ferry line up next to a cattle trailer where the animals are clearly in distress. What a species we are with it’s on-ramps and cars, it’s willingness to laugh as we drive sentient creatures to the abattoir. And when I next eat meat I will push down my feelings and likely not even thank the creature that nourishes my existence..

I am saddened by that state of it all, but inspired by some of the true genius that can arise in a performer like Joni Mitchell. Is my appreciation enough to justify the cost of the Traillii in my own life? If it can inspire me to be a better person then perhaps.. because what else is there in life that is real..?.

…Another aspect of my Traillii ownership is that the sense of its inevitable end heightens my time with it. Every listening session is very special as I know that sooner or later this will be over. In a way it’s a metaphor for existence. I never take these for granted.

 

[jwilliamhurst]

I was musing privately with @Rockwell75 about Traillii ownership and my difficulties with the cost… He mentioned I should post it so if you can stomach the long winded rant…


“I guess I have this idea that I’ll try something like the Bravado 2 again and it will tick enough boxes to let me downgrade…
But the Traillii is really under my skin. I have been slowly going through old albums and songs and it’s not only the detail and clarity that is unmasking songs but it’s showing all the elements that make the song great. The clarity of each instrument lets me hear what it contributes to the song. The song never loses its majesty as other detailed iems have done for me … but I’m hearing what amazing chords and chord progressions in Joni Mitchell’s albums because I can hear the constituent notes of the chords. The. A guitar track will back it and I hear how it’s there to alter the emotion a bit, to convey the larger story she has crafted in each of her songs. This isn’t just a band that plays a part, each part has specific purpose to the song’s story.

I’m reminded of a soundtrack and how the music creates the tension and dissolution of the visual narrative, often unconsciously. Some music as we listen is like that. So many unconscious elements put together to create a song that we see in its gestalt. Often it’s because the musicians are essentially “asleep at the wheel” regardless of how good and novel they are. They channel a muse but it’s essentially unconscious. There is something to be said for that but that’s a primitive shamanistic (not pejoratively) approach. There is an idea of music as sacred though as a conscious form of prayer, not idolatrous prayer but real prayer for the sake of that which is greater, not our part in it.
In some ways, we profane music with it’s constancy and our control over it, in terms of accessibility. The ephemeral nature of a tone and its relationship to time and ultimately death is a means to reverence and appreciation of life. To know that to feel is to live.
The Traillii makes me wonder if I shouldn’t sell it and focus on learning an instrument… but then is an instrument learned for oneself another form of idolatry and selfishness? Is not the purpose of the musician like that of a priest or holy man? The conversation between performer and audience is why society developed its stratification, to honour the separation of tasks in a society. It’s our animal instinct that corrupts the society to be predatory.

As is obvious, my roots (genetic) are western Judeo-Christian as the sensual is a conduit to separation from the divine and therefore a vulnerability.

I sit here in a ferry line up next to a cattle trailer where the animals are clearly in distress. What a species we are with it’s on-ramps and cars, it’s willingness to laugh as we drive sentient creatures to the abattoir. And when I next eat meat I will push down my feelings and likely not even thank the creature that nourishes my existence..

I am saddened by that state of it all, but inspired by some of the true genius that can arise in a performer like Joni Mitchell. Is my appreciation enough to justify the cost of the Traillii in my own life? If it can inspire me to be a better person then perhaps.. because what else is there in life that is real..?.

…Another aspect of my Traillii ownership is that the sense of its inevitable end heightens my time with it. Every listening session is very special as I know that sooner or later this will be over. In a way it’s a metaphor for existence. I never take these for granted.

Great post and Great read! Like all things in life; everything inevitably comes to an end.

 

[aaf evo]

I was musing privately with @Rockwell75 about Traillii ownership and my difficulties with the cost… He mentioned I should post it so if you can stomach the long winded rant…


“I guess I have this idea that I’ll try something like the Bravado 2 again and it will tick enough boxes to let me downgrade…
But the Traillii is really under my skin. I have been slowly going through old albums and songs and it’s not only the detail and clarity that is unmasking songs but it’s showing all the elements that make the song great. The clarity of each instrument lets me hear what it contributes to the song. The song never loses its majesty as other detailed iems have done for me … but I’m hearing what amazing chords and chord progressions in Joni Mitchell’s albums because I can hear the constituent notes of the chords. The. A guitar track will back it and I hear how it’s there to alter the emotion a bit, to convey the larger story she has crafted in each of her songs. This isn’t just a band that plays a part, each part has specific purpose to the song’s story.

I’m reminded of a soundtrack and how the music creates the tension and dissolution of the visual narrative, often unconsciously. Some music as we listen is like that. So many unconscious elements put together to create a song that we see in its gestalt. Often it’s because the musicians are essentially “asleep at the wheel” regardless of how good and novel they are. They channel a muse but it’s essentially unconscious. There is something to be said for that but that’s a primitive shamanistic (not pejoratively) approach. There is an idea of music as sacred though as a conscious form of prayer, not idolatrous prayer but real prayer for the sake of that which is greater, not our part in it.
In some ways, we profane music with it’s constancy and our control over it, in terms of accessibility. The ephemeral nature of a tone and its relationship to time and ultimately death is a means to reverence and appreciation of life. To know that to feel is to live.
The Traillii makes me wonder if I shouldn’t sell it and focus on learning an instrument… but then is an instrument learned for oneself another form of idolatry and selfishness? Is not the purpose of the musician like that of a priest or holy man? The conversation between performer and audience is why society developed its stratification, to honour the separation of tasks in a society. It’s our animal instinct that corrupts the society to be predatory.

As is obvious, my roots (genetic) are western Judeo-Christian as the sensual is a conduit to separation from the divine and therefore a vulnerability.

I sit here in a ferry line up next to a cattle trailer where the animals are clearly in distress. What a species we are with it’s on-ramps and cars, it’s willingness to laugh as we drive sentient creatures to the abattoir. And when I next eat meat I will push down my feelings and likely not even thank the creature that nourishes my existence..

I am saddened by that state of it all, but inspired by some of the true genius that can arise in a performer like Joni Mitchell. Is my appreciation enough to justify the cost of the Traillii in my own life? If it can inspire me to be a better person then perhaps.. because what else is there in life that is real..?.

…Another aspect of my Traillii ownership is that the sense of its inevitable end heightens my time with it. Every listening session is very special as I know that sooner or later this will be over. In a way it’s a metaphor for existence. I never take these for granted.

Whenever you get rid of it, surely it will be for something better? There is no end enjoy the ride.

 

[ian91]

Is my appreciation enough to justify the cost of the Traillii in my own life? If it can inspire me to be a better person then perhaps..

Whatever inspires someone to be a more compassionate person is worth its weight in gold in my book.