THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.

[TheMiddleSky]

I’m with you on the Diana. Though, Diana line isn’t the worst offender in weird tuning to me. Despite each of the various Diana I’ve listened to, within a couple minutes I’ve thought, “Nope… just nope.” The venerable 1266 just is all sorts of wrong to my ears with its WONKY midrange. Though, admittedly most people who love the 1266, I’m sure yourself included, aren’t using it to focus on midrange at all, rather its bass response, which I totally get the appeal there. I wonder though, how many people who have the 1266 could be happy just with that headphone? (Shhhh, KP, if you’re lurking here, you’re not included…)

However, I think with the JOAL, if it improves/fixes the Abyss house midrange, I can definitely see that as a contender! At its price it also is a compelling proposition, too. The fact that has the same aesthetics/style as a Diana doesn’t bother me in the slightest either. I think they look pretty good.

I need to get some ear time with the JOAL indeed!

I had Diana twice (Diana V2 and Phi), while I definitely could enjoyed them well, I understand for some people Diana's midrange may seem wonky, especially at lower midrange area.

At first I also a bit sceptical about Joal, but after tried at canjam, I understand fully why Abyss named this headphone as Joal line up, not Diana anymore. Simply becaue they tuned differently. The biggest change is at midrange area. Joal is more "normal" sounding, just fuller sounding from top to bottom, with more "normal" imaging presentation as well. Coming from Caldera, it's much easier to enjopy Joal than any version of Diana.

 

[Monsterzero]

For sure, Roon Radio has ebbed and flowed quite dramatically in the 8 years I've used Roon (lifetime). Give it a few days/weeks and they'll knock the algorithm another direction or not and the natives will complain as usual. Just accept it or move on.

oh...this wasn't Roon Radio. It was within my collection only using the shuffle function in a playlist I created. Roon frequently does this to me, like yesterday was a Townes Van Zandt heavy play day, nothing like the other night, but still.

It seems trivial but the downside is it literally burns me out on a given artist, something that shouldn't be happening with over 3800 artists and 11K albums in my collection.

 

[Aetherhole]

I had Diana twice (Diana V2 and Phi), while I definitely could enjoyed them well, I understand for some people Diana's midrange may seem wonky, especially at lower midrange area.

At first I also a bit sceptical about Joal, but after tried at canjam, I understand fully why Abyss named this headphone as Joal line up, not Diana anymore. Simply becaue they tuned differently. The biggest change is at midrange area. Joal is more "normal" sounding, just fuller sounding from top to bottom, with more "normal" imaging presentation as well. Coming from Caldera, it's much easier to enjopy Joal than any version of Diana.

Oh this is great to hear. Being pretty familiar with the Caldera sound, that gives me more reason to give the JOAL a try!

 

[lairpost]

oh...this wasn't Roon Radio. It was within my collection only using the shuffle function in a playlist I created. Roon frequently does this to me, like yesterday was a Townes Van Zandt heavy play day, nothing like the other night, but still.

It seems trivial but the downside is it literally burns me out on a given artist, something that shouldn't be happening with over 3800 artists and 11K albums in my collection.

It's still related. Main difference is the algorithm only has access to choose from your limited local files vs. Tidal or Qobuz plus local files. Don't forget that 'random' is potentially the same track played over and over infinitely. Not ideal but still meets the strict definition of random shuffle. Roon 'still' only takes into account your last track in the queue to add the next track from the available sources. It has no 'look back' to determine a pattern or flavor sonically or even theme relation.

I have 10x the local files you do and still experience times where the same track will be played again within 2-3 tracks in the queue. Roon gang really struggles with this function and I believe there is something inherently flawed in the code that's now too big of a beast to rewrite. Pandora (the music genome project) figured this out decades ago. Spotify, despite loathing their business tactics, does this very well too. There used to be standalone tech, MusicIP, that analyzed and fingerprinted each track (yes it took a good long while) and would create 'sonic journeys' playlists way back in the early 2000s. The IP has since been purchased and shelved but the binaries are available for those inclined to experiment. More recently, available on Android, Symfonium will do much of what MusicIP did/does.

Roon team made a choice very early on to commit to a platform that is OS agnostic. This makes it a single code base but in many ways ties them to the lowest common denominator of what can be done. i.e. they can't take advantage of native OS functions available, only what they've written within the agnostic environment. I'm sure it was a tough choice and the ramifications could not be fully known back in 2010 or so when it all started at Meridian I believe (don't quote me). Now it's so far down the path that a complete rewrite would simply be too expensive. For example, still Roon on Android is forced to go through the Android OS sample rate converter to 48k even though every other known music player app can bypass this on a vendor-tweaked Android OS. I think they are stuck in the box they built.

Hopefully the shear might of Harmon programming resources will be able to creatively extend and improve functionality over time (and they have) and avoid the time/energy wasting that occurred in the past, namely MQA and other distractions like ARC. Sure, they are useful for some but came at the expense of sometimes floundering core functionality failures like general stability, search performance or not and reasonable shuffle playback.

We've only very recently got anything that approaches usable playlists let alone smart/dynamic playlists that Apple iTunes had for decades.

Ok, off my soapbox...I still use Roon on my home system but only there and very likely would not if I hadn't purchased a lifetime license 8 years go. I would not recommend it to anyone not willing to learn and understand and tweak it.

 

[goldwerger]

Hopefully the shear might of Harmon programming resources will be able to creatively extend and improve functionality over time (and they have) and avoid the time/energy wasting that occurred in the past

I was a bit worried about the Harman acquisition since I'm so invested in Roon personally and love it dearly. I was delighted to see what I consider the best case scenario, of an acquirer accelerating Roon while letting it thrive as an indepdent division, now better funded.

Personally, I've noticed that the pace of core performance upgrades since the acquisition has accelerated. Search, for example, was indeed slow at times in the past, and now works really well for me. And many invaluable core functions have been launched (e.g. creating Qobuz/Tidal playlists inside roon, instant drag and drop between playlists, Listen Later, etc).

Because of that, I draw a much more optimistic and aggresively supportive conclusion and would highly recommend Roon to anyone and encourage folks to try it. It is so much better today than it was a year ago, and a year ago it was better than two years ago. And two years ago it was already great, it not perfect.

 

[lairpost]

Because of that, I draw a much more optimistic and aggresively supportive conclusion and would highly recommend Roon to anyone and encourage folks to try it. It is so much better today than it was a year ago, and a year ago it was better than two years ago. And two years ago it was already great, it not perfect.

It is better than it was. I completely agree with your assessment of improvements coming more rapidly. Much of my statements are biased from the pain of years gone by and hopefully Harmon keeps up the funding and good work. That said, I loathe subscriptions and I have to repeatedly justify the spend and I'm not sure the music discovery benefits warrant the spend if I didn't already have lifetime (at $500 one time) but there are so many features wrapped into one package that each person needs to decide if what they use is worth it or not.

 

[Frankie D]

I heard this track at the end of “Hacks” tonight. I thought it was simple and soothing. “Bless The Telephone” by Labi Siffre. This was written in 1971, so the words do not aptly apply today, but the sentiment is beautiful. It is just Labi and his guitar. I had never heard of him before. Not sure I like much else, but this is a nice mellow track.

 

[leylandi]

Yamaha new amp

 

[goldwerger]

I heard this track at the end of “Hacks” tonight. I thought it was simple and soothing. “Bless The Telephone” by Labi Siffre. This was written in 1971, so the words do not aptly apply today, but the sentiment is beautiful. It is just Labi and his guitar. I had never heard of him before. Not sure I like much else, but this is a nice mellow track.

Very nice recommendation! I’m now listening to him singing “It must be love”, which I’m realizing learning was his original, and Madness covered later..

 

[Sajid Amit]

First time tube-rolling on the AIC. How pretty are the innards?

Of course, the tubes you like will depend on the entire chain + your headphones, but for my 1266, I much prefer the stock JJ tube to the mullard, especially with the Roasty EQ.

I get better tactility, slam, and bass texture, and I like how the riffs sound more life-like on Metallica.

Man, the 1266 off the AIC + Tambaqui chain, shaped with the Roasty EQ, is every Metallica fanboys dream come true.

The Four Horsemen never sounded so good. Nor the entire Justice album! Yay!

 

[goldwerger]

for my 1266, I much prefer the stock JJ tube to the mullard

I don't listen to much metal music myself, but can see how the JJ tube would work best for this genre as you'd prioritze incisiveness and speed over musicality. You may want to try the Telefunken G73R as it may take that a notch up on that end of the spectrum.

If you have a chance to listen to the AIC with the Susvara or Caldera and listen more to acoustics/vocals/jazz, the Mullard may show its strenght in adding texture and body.

That said, different tastes and all. This simply may be for you! Enjoy!!

 

[Frankie D]

Very nice recommendation! I’m now listening to him singing “It must be love”, which I’m realizing learning was his original, and Madness covered later..

I checked out the cover of “It Must be Love” by Madness. Man does that sound like it came out of the early 1960’s!

Way different take than their hit “Our House.” Tks.

 

[Robenfor]

I was a bit worried about the Harman acquisition since I'm so invested in Roon personally and love it dearly. I was delighted to see what I consider the best case scenario, of an acquirer accelerating Roon while letting it thrive as an indepdent division, now better funded.

Personally, I've noticed that the pace of core performance upgrades since the acquisition has accelerated. Search, for example, was indeed slow at times in the past, and now works really well for me. And many invaluable core functions have been launched (e.g. creating Qobuz/Tidal playlists inside roon, instant drag and drop between playlists, Listen Later, etc).

Because of that, I draw a much more optimistic and aggresively supportive conclusion and would highly recommend Roon to anyone and encourage folks to try it. It is so much better today than it was a year ago, and a year ago it was better than two years ago. And two years ago it was already great, it not perfect.

Love hearing that! It’s honestly so rare these days for an acquisition to actually improve the product without wrecking its soul. Sounds like Harman’s just giving Roon the resources it needed to really fly, not meddling.
Are there any features you’re still hoping they add next, now that they’ve got more momentum?

 

[goldwerger]

Love hearing that! It’s honestly so rare these days for an acquisition to actually improve the product without wrecking its soul. Sounds like Harman’s just giving Roon the resources it needed to really fly, not meddling.
Are there any features you’re still hoping they add next, now that they’ve got more momentum?

For me, the main feature I was excited to see launch a couple of years ago was the mobile app ARC, but its performance has been and remains poor (too slow) so I just don’t bother with it. I’d have loved for it to work fast though to access my Roon library on the go. All improvements to date haven’t solved its latency issues for me. So that would be my main hope in terms of future development.

 

[Monsterzero]

For me, the main feature I was excited to see launch a couple of years ago was the mobile app ARC, but its performance has been and remains poor (too slow) so I just don’t bother with it. I’d have loved for it to work fast though to access my Roon library on the go. All improvements to date haven’t solved its latency issues for me. So that would be my main hope in terms of future development.

Since I live up in the sticks with miles and miles of wifi/5G/4G dead zones I use ARC in offline mode, and feed it into the car's sound system and it works flawlessly, but again only in offline mode.