THE WATERCOOLER HEADPHONE EDITION – Headphones, Amps, DACs, and desktop/home audio related – a freewheeling discussion of gear, impressions, music, and musings.

[Johnsmith55]

Were you also able to test the Levante as a headphone amp? I understand it's different than the AIC10

P.S. try to "paste" your pictures inside the post where you type, so they show up in the thread. As posted, these are links for download, just fyi..

Yes, that’s precisely what I did. Compared to the Solista, the Levante lacked low end and couldn’t help but hear a slight nasal filter (I suspect it was the type of tube the dealer had in it, but I didn’t ask which). Despite this, it still had great stage and presence, far superior to the AIC10. The Viva outperformed it due to its exceptional low end, mid bass, and beautiful mids (so far, unmatched to my ears). The vocals are stunning; they cut through the mix and stand out very spaciously. Certain songs are intentionally mixed with the same frequency between bass guitar and electric guitar playing the same melody to create a melodic mid bass flow. I’ve noticed many amps fail to carry the weight of this melody, but not with the Viva. In fact, it fully embraces the bass and guitar-heavy melody flow and follows it wherever it leads on the spectrum. It’s an absolute delight; you have to hear it. Additionally, certain songs have a subtle feeling, and you can sense that presence with not only decay and reverb, but also the size of the space, be it a small damped hallway, or a vast cathedral. At times, I was overwhelmed by emotions and had to skip personal tracks. The test was conducted using my Fidelice Rupert Neve DAC, although I also tested the dCS Rossini in the mix, I still preferred my Neve DAC. It was an educational experience for me, to say the least, but mostly very enjoyable and fun.

 

[goldwerger]

@Johnsmith55 did you listen to these amps with speaker only? my question was how the Levante and AIC compare for headphones.. did you try that as well?

 

[Johnsmith55]

@Johnsmith55 did you listen to these amps with speaker only? my question was how the Levante and AIC compare for headphones.. did you try that as well?

Oh sorry, I listened to them with Susvara and also tried them with speakers, but mostly with headphones for four hours. The AIC-10 wasn’t there, but I’ve had it at my place and experienced it for a few days. The Levante outperforms the AIC-10, but by a very slight margin.
By the way, I think the photos were converted to attached files because of their large size. I tried posting them within the body.

 

[Frankie D]

Oh sorry, I listened to them with Susvara and also tried them with speakers, but mostly with headphones for four hours. The AIC-10 wasn’t there, but I’ve had it at my place and experienced it for a few days. The Levante outperforms the AIC-10, but by a very slight margin.
By the way, I think the photos were converted to attached files because of their large size. I tried posting them within the body.

The Solista is Viva’s top integrated amplifier and quite honestly, it is what Viva should have used for their HP amplifier. I am sure they viewed it as overkill.

Based on your previous description of the Levante I do not think the Levante outperforms the AIC-10. The AIC-10 with the Mullard tube has powerful bass with the Susvara. We will have to compare one day. You only heard the AIC-10 with its installed tube. I was not wowed by it till I heard it with a NOS tube.

Anyway, sounds like it was a great day! I think you will be searching for a while to beat your DAC. Any differences will be marginal.

 

[goldwerger]

I had a wonderful visit today from @HONEYBOY who came over for some very focused A/B comparisons.

His main goal was to try out the Riviera AIC10, which he is considering getting. It was a good chance for him to try it in comparison to his current amp, the Woo WA23 (before I shipped later in the day to @buke9).

Since @HONEYBOY is a very disciplined listener, he brought with him his own source gear - the Grimm MU1 (used as a roon end point) amd Mola Mola Tambaqui. This allowed us to also compare his source gear to my Bricasti M3.

I grouped the Grimm and Bricasti in Roon so any music we played streamed to both simultaneously, and connected both to the AIC10 - this let us toggle the AIC's input knob and compare those two sources in real-time with the same track on the same amp.

For comparing amps, WA23 and AIC10 were both simultaenously connected to my Bricasti, and this way we could compare them to each other using the same source.

We rustled up some power and interconnect cables and put together a makeshift setup..

@HONEYBOY brought his two headphones - the Sonry MDR-R10 and DCA Stealth - so he could focus enitrely on chain gear from a familiar benchmark (did I say he was disciplined?).

I'll let him share his impressions of the AIC10 as an amp, but TLDR; he found it a signifcant upgrade to the WA23, as did I.

As for the DACs, this was the first time I could compare the Tambaqui and Bricasti in my home chain, in quiet, and with all other components isolated. I've always loved the Tambaqui whenever I heard it, but memory makes comparisons difficult.

I found that I preferred the Bricasti, which was a pleasant surprise (another itch I now won't need to scratch). The Bricasti felt more analog, a hint warmer and fuller sounding. More organic. The Tambaqui felt a touch colder, a hint brighter, more open feeling but a hint thinner. For me, the Bricasti sounded more natural. That said, the DACs were close enough in sound to each other that I could happily live with either. But difference was distinct to both of us, as were our preferences: @HONEYBOY in fact preferred the Tambaqui. We like a lof of the same music, but his tastes veer more neutral/technical and mine a more to the organic/musical (not the most unhelpful terms, until two people actually sit together, listen to the same gears, and compare notes live; but those were our notes, such as they were).

Last, I got a rare chance to see a bit of the pad and foam underbelly of the MDR-R10 (always a topic of discussion on that thread). @HONEYBOY brought his own set because, of course, the wanted to accounted for any variances between specific sets.. Since he had it refoamed by ESLabs, he could confidently show me what they've done. I got a good lesson on the internal foaming rings, dampening material, and how all the internal layers of materials are put togehter. My own set seems to have been refoamed in its hisotyr past and is in excellent shape, so fortunately I won't need to contend with this. But for a possible future day, and for my own curiosity, I've take some pictures of his below-the-pad reveals..

@HONEYBOY It was great to have you over buddy. In your happy zone..

 

[Audio Addict]

I was aware, seriously though knowing how much the other components cables rack etc. cost I would have thought 80-100K, after all this is a “spare no expense” preamp from a designer with decades of solid state design under his belt starting with Krell. That the price is what it is gives me significant pause, and requires some serious thought.

No words really can describe the feeling from this, it is so close to live as to be indistinguishable. It was already live sounding with the VTL7.5 though now that is redefined.

Equally impressive on vocal and stepped down jazz, the counter point playing against the harmony is just so natural sounding. Space between notes has become pitch black.

At that price point, have you thought about an Aries Cerat Ageto?

https://aries-cerat.com/ianus-ageto-preamplifier/

 

[Johnsmith55]

It’s alive! It’s alive!

 

[Death_Block]

What a nightmare to clean
Would be satisfying though

 

[SolarCetacean]

This past Monday, I demoed the LTA Z10e again, this time bringing along my CCS-modded SRM-006tS for comparison along with my X9000 and SGL Jr. During my last demo in May, I wasn't entirely convinced by the Z10e's performance (I didn't bring my own amp that time so I couldn't directly compare to see how it was different). This time, I was. I placed an order for one of their pre-owned units to be refurbished and brought up to current production specs. That saves me quite a bit of money vs even a discounted retail Z10e and I can save them a bit of money on shipping too since I can simply drive to their workshop and pick it up myself.

In short, I found the Z10e to offer more body and weight to notes (particularly bass and lower mids) than the 006t, smoother treble (contributing to smoother vocals), and sometimes slightly larger soundstage. It can also increase the sense of realism for some notes. This makes it a direct upgrade from the 006t for my use cases. These changes benefit the SGL Jr more as its tuning benefits from added body and weight. The X9000 also benefits, but I sometimes prefer a punchier sound; for those occasions I have the feedback-modded SRM-727. I made a lengthy comparison on the Z10e thread here (post #144). In the following post, I offer some criticisms of the Z10e and note a number of headphone pairings that I did not enjoy with that amp. So the demo was in big part to ensure that the two estats that I intend to keep in my collection are a good fit for the Z10e's sound signature.

This was a bit of an unplanned purchase. The Z10e was not on my gear roadmap, but after CAF and my more positive impressions there, LTA followed up with me and noted the pre-owned unit that was available. I was always impressed with the product design and versatility of the Z10e, but I hadn't been satisfied that it was an improvement to the sound. This last demo removed that doubt. The "default" location for the Z10e is to directly replace the 006t in the living room setup and it would be the most direct sound pairing, combining the increased body of the Z10e's sound with the added body from the UD-507. That may be going overboard though, so I might also move the Z10e upstairs to the desktop setup. That will be a hybrid pairing of the punchier sound of the Erco Gen 2 with the body of the Z10e while the 727 goes downstairs to the living room. In some ways, I wish for that to be the better set of pairing since I'm a bit enamored with the idea of an all-Japanese chain and I had just put that together last month (see here), plus I wish to keep my living room setup silver-colored while the Z10e will visually fit better with my desktop setup.

 

[HONEYBOY]

I had a wonderful visit today from @HONEYBOY who came over for some very focused A/B comparisons.

His main goal was to try out the Riviera AIC10, which he is considering getting. It was a good chance for him to try it in comparison to his current amp, the Woo WA23 (before I shipped later in the day to @buke9).

Since @HONEYBOY is a very disciplined listener, he brought with him his own source gear - the Grimm MU1 (used as a roon end point) amd Mola Mola Tambaqui. This allowed us to also compare his source gear to my Bricasti M3.

I grouped the Grimm and Bricasti in Roon so any music we played streamed to both simultaneously, and connected both to the AIC10 - this let us toggle the AIC's input knob and compare those two sources in real-time with the same track on the same amp.

For comparing amps, WA23 and AIC10 were both simultaenously connected to my Bricasti, and this way we could compare them to each other using the same source.

We rustled up some power and interconnect cables and put together a makeshift setup..

@HONEYBOY brought his two headphones - the Sonry MDR-R10 and DCA Stealth - so he could focus enitrely on chain gear from a familiar benchmark (did I say he was disciplined?).

I'll let him share his impressions of the AIC10 as an amp, but TLDR; he found it a signifcant upgrade to the WA23, as did I.

As for the DACs, this was the first time I could compare the Tambaqui and Bricasti in my home chain, in quiet, and with all other components isolated. I've always loved the Tambaqui whenever I heard it, but memory makes comparisons difficult.

I found that I preferred the Bricasti, which was a pleasant surprise (another itch I now won't need to scratch). The Bricasti felt more analog, a hint warmer and fuller sounding. More organic. The Tambaqui felt a touch colder, a hint brighter, more open feeling but a hint thinner. For me, the Bricasti sounded more natural. That said, the DACs were close enough in sound to each other that I could happily live with either. But difference was distinct to both of us, as were our preferences: @HONEYBOY in fact preferred the Tambaqui. We like a lof of the same music, but his tastes veer more neutral/technical and mine a more to the organic/musical (not the most unhelpful terms, until two people actually sit together, listen to the same gears, and compare notes live; but those were our notes, such as they were).

Last, I got a rare chance to see a bit of the pad and foam underbelly of the MDR-R10 (always a topic of discussion on that thread). @HONEYBOY brought his own set because, of course, the wanted to accounted for any variances between specific sets.. Since he had it refoamed by ESLabs, he could confidently show me what they've done. I got a good lesson on the internal foaming rings, dampening material, and how all the internal layers of materials are put togehter. My own set seems to have been refoamed in its hisotyr past and is in excellent shape, so fortunately I won't need to contend with this. But for a possible future day, and for my own curiosity, I've take some pictures of his below-the-pad reveals..


@HONEYBOY It was great to have you over buddy. In your happy zone..

Thanks so much @goldwerger I had a fantastic time and you have such a lovely space and a well behaved dog

Yeah I have to say that initially I actually found the Bricasti set up more appealing. It had a nice warmth and sweet tonality that I enjoyed immediately. I've found the Tambaqui to need a few hours to warm up and settle down, but I was surprised I liked your Bricasti M3 so much more at first. As I continued to listen though, I think I massively favored the Grimm + Tambaqui due to the higher resolution, openness and transparency. By the way the interconnects used with Tambaqui to amp were Audience frontRow XLR cables. The MU1 + Tambaqui to my ears was a lot more revealing of the intricacies and dynamics in the music, I found greater weight or dimensionality and realism on the Tambaqui as well. The warmth of the Bricasti appears to mask some details, texture and nuances that I could detect easily in the Tambaqui + MU1. This was more so apparent on the Stealth than on the R10. Yep, I am admittedly more partial to the more neutral tunings. It never ceases to amaze me how subjective this hobby can be.

Yeah I had to be disciplined because man you have so many candies that I knew I would leave without ultimately achieving what I came for haha. Next time will be happy to indulge at the headphone Disneyland. So now that I am certain I am migrating my source from the Grimm MU1 + Tambaqui to the Grimm MU2, I have begun exploring differing amps. The Riviera AIC10 has always been an amp that I've enjoyed thoroughly, but my exposure to it has always been short lived demos. I really love this amp. Now the WA23 is my favorite amp of all time and I remember preferring it to the WA33, and even rate it slightly above the HM1. To be frank, I think the Riviera does outperform it. Technically the AIC10 is outstanding. Its resolution is second to none, it's transparent, incredible staging, dynamic and all the great virtues of a good amp. I think it's fair to say that I was impressed again enough to know it is the front runner for amps am interested in acquiring. I was also surprised to understand how versatile its tuning can be. Despite the overtly apparent and better qualities of the AIC10, I still find the WA23 such an incredible listen. It has musicality in spades and if I could keep it, I will, but AIC10 is perhaps another tier up in performance and I enjoyed it immensely. You can't go wrong with either amps. I will say though, that there is a euphonic colorization that the WA23 has that is quite addicting and intoxicating and I will miss that. The WA23 has a refinement at least with the Takatsuki tubes that I can't find elsewhere. The noise the WA23 makes on sensitive headphones though is quite unacceptable and it has been my main critique of the amp.

Happy to geek out and talk about the R10s all day. They are remarkable headphones. I'be been enamored by them since the first time I heard one. So smitten by the R10 to the point I now own two of these rarities. Your R10s are a nice set in excellent condition and have been re-foamed quite nicely. The pads are not ESLabs pads so perhaps they were unused originals. Either way your set sounds great!

Anyways thanks again for the invite @goldwerger. The meet was a success! If anyone sees an AIC10 around help a brother out!

 

[TheAbyss2022]

Has anyone compared the naturalness of the R10 against the HE1? To me, the HE1 had the most natural sounding instrumentation/timbre when I heard it but I have not yet heard the R10.

 

[goldwerger]

To be frank, I think the Riviera does outperform it. Technically the AIC10 is outstanding. Its resolution is second to none, it's transparent, incredible staging, dynamic and all the great virtues of a good amp. I think it's fair to say that I was impressed again enough to know it is the front runner for amps am interested in acquiring. I was also surprised to understand how versatile its tuning can be. Despite the overtly apparent and better qualities of the AIC10, I still find the WA23 such an incredible listen. It has musicality in spades and if I could keep it, I will, but AIC10 is perhaps another tier up in performance and I enjoyed it immensely. You can't go wrong with either amps. I will say though, that there is a euphonic colorization that the WA23 has that is quite addicting and intoxicating and I will miss that. The WA23 has a refinement at least with the Takatsuki tubes that I can't find elsewhere. The noise the WA23 makes on sensitive headphones though is quite unacceptable and it has been my main critique of the amp.

Well said..

 

[chrisnyc75]

What a nightmare to clean
Would be satisfying though

This is 100% a rabbit hole I would go ALL THE WAY down.

 

[tfenton02]

Perhaps the best way to watch Thursday Night Football.

 

[goldwerger]

Listening this evening with the Audio-Technica ATH-L3000 (fitted with ZMF Universe Lambskin Solid pads). Another pair of timeless headphones. Bintage with staying power.

These headphones are very responsive to amping. I started with the Aegis and Auris Nirvana. I liked these amps equally with the L3000, but differently: the Aegis has a lighter and mopre delicate touch, keeping things refined, while the Nirvana provides a strong grounding and weighty bass. I switched to the Riviera AIC10 and, as is often the case, I was floored by the jumped in both musicality and technicalities. This amp expand the soundstage, which is rather notable with these closed-back headphones, while offering a beautiful timbre. It all just feels rich and lush.

I'm currently listening to this album by Sophie Milman, a wonderful Canadian jazz singer. The L3000 were renowned for their bass when they originally launched, but in this setup I enjoy them quite a lot listening to vocals and acoustic music.

That said, I'm all for guilty pleasure and some make-me-smile pounding bass. These headphones were made for pop tracks like this. The bass on these headphones isn't the hardest hitting, but it's very "sweet hitting". Hard to explain, but it's like an analog feel and touch of decay that combine to make a very enjoyable, deep, "thump"