The (Un)Official Amp Thread For ZMF Headphones

[Pharmaboy]

It is all about the implementation and not about SE or BAL out. Judging an amplifier based on SE or BAL out feels like judging an Egyptian faraoh thomb based on the entrance. It depends on what you find inside.

I'm guilty of doing this!

"Security! An old man wrapped in bandages is menacing tourists at Entrance A."

 

[FLXI]

It comes down to the implementation. I have had some gear where the device is built with SE or balanced connections in mind and the other is thrown on for convenience. If done well, there shouldn't really be any difference but this is not always the case.

The biggest offender that I can think of is the SE output on the older Yggy.

Yes, that is true and the important thing is to try and compare, what sounds best sounds best. But I would say that there is a general difference in the sound signature and the SE conection is usually to my liking, coming out as more relaxed, organic and open where I think the Bal tend to be a bit more controlled and accurate. Just general differences I’ve picked up a long the way but I’m sure there are exceptions.

In theory the SE should be better since there are less components in the signal way.

 

[timbrehead]

Now you tell me. I wonder how many amazing Pharaoh tombs I've missed out on over the years.

I've seen some pretty amazing Pharaoh's tombs - when I went on an Egypt tour in the 1970s including a 5 day boat ride down the Nile to reach some of them.
In my 40+ year experience in 2 channel audio, I've also toured some great cables and components.
What follows is all IMHO, IMOE (own experience), based on exploring many rabbit holes and YMMV. Probably will.

If you can't hear it, simple, it does not exist - for you. That is absolutely true. I can never disagree with anyone's experience.
Differences in cables and their terminations will or will not be heard depending on the rest of, that is all of the components in the signal path. If just one component lacks the sufficient resolution, then something won't be reproduced and won't be heard. I've thought I wasted money on cables when I heard no change. New pre-amplifier, big upgrade, wow ! Holy . . . goosebumps. Naw, can't be? Must just be the pre or my expectation, desire. Weeks of A/Bing cables with new pre - Yup, big additional improvement added by the cables. And not just because I wanted it to be so.

XLR terminations were first develooped for the professional sector, recording with microphones on long cables, needed secure connections that couldn't accidentally disconnect as performers moved or gyrated around the stage. With very long cables more power was also needed to maintin fidelity. In genuine XLR interconnects there are three "wires" one for each audio channel and a separate one for power, some have a fourth wire for a dedicatd ground. Deliberately isolated from oneanother. Like high end USB cables, separate signal and power through separate wires isolated from one another. Lke transformers get isolated from signal path in components, even to the extent of numerous "2 box" systems with power and signal processing in completely separate chasis. Think DCS (or dcs) and Holo Audio May, both highly regarded and sounding quite different.
This is from an old memory file in my head, so if I'm wrong, I welcome correction.

Different high end cable manufacturers voice some of their cables for a particular sound. Case in point, I am planning on getting some new (hopefully used or dealer demo) interconnedts for the head-fi system between DAC and Amp. Now using interconnects borrowed from 2 channel system where they are very neutral and revealing of great nuance, perfect there but a little too austerely detailed for the head-fi setup. The same cable manufactuer makes a cable voiced so that is deliberately a warmer and mid-range forward. I want it.

betula nailed it: "It depends on what you find inside. " In this case, inside your head between your ears and inside that part of your heart that is moved by music.

Again, not criticizing anyone or making anyone wrong. This is all IMHO & YM will V.

 

[FLXI]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences. My own experience aligns with yours — when the rest of the system is of high quality, cables tend to have a more noticeable impact. They can be a crucial part of the system, and their importance is often underestimated.

The technical advantage of balanced cabling — namely its ability to reject noise over long cable runs — isn’t usually relevant for us audiophiles in a home setting, as you point out. But there might be another theoretical benefit worth mentioning.

In a balanced XLR cable, one of the signal lines carries an inverted version of the original signal. A push-pull amplifier requires two signal halves in opposite phase to drive each side of the output stage. A well-designed push-pull amplifier with a truly balanced input can use the already phase-split signal directly, without needing a separate phase inversion stage.

By contrast, some amplifiers with XLR inputs aren’t truly balanced internally. They might convert the incoming signal to single-ended and then perform their own phase inversion later on — effectively losing the advantage of the balanced signal path.

In the case of SET (single-ended triode) amplifiers, there’s really no technical benefit to a balanced signal at all, since the topology is inherently single-ended and uses only one phase.

But all this technical gibberish is just in theory there are so many systems and personal preferences so the most important thing is to try. Like I said before, I tend to prefer the sound of SE in most cases.

 

[Hayduke5270]

Guys cables don't affect sound unless they are super long.

 

[Wes S]

Guys cables don't affect sound unless they are super long.

I wish that were true, as my bank account would like it. That said, it's not. Cables are a very important part of the chain, and can most definitely influence the sound.

 

[jp11801]

Guys cables don't affect sound unless they are super long.

I wish that were true, as my bank account would like it. That said, it's not. Cables are a very important part of the chain, and can most definitely influence the sound.

not really a discussion for the thread as cable belief - non belief is a rabbit hole discussion

 

[Huntersknoll]

@erics75, you sold me on trying out the HP8 with my turntable setup. It will fit there perfectly. I always kind of ignored that amp because I thought you couldn't get it in the US, but I was wrong. Glad to be wrong

 

[Luckyleo]

I wish that were true, as my bank account would like it. That said, it's not. Cables are a very important part of the chain, and can most definitely influence the sound.

Paul McGowan of PS Audio had a video last week I think where he discussed cables. To sum up his thoughts; He believes that a good cable doesn't lose any piece of information when the signal passes through. If you hear differences between cables it's a question of what is being lost from a less than optimal cable.

 

[erics75]

@erics75, you sold me on trying out the HP8 with my turntable setup. It will fit there perfectly. I always kind of ignored that amp because I thought you couldn't get it in the US, but I was wrong. Glad to be wrong

Congrats! I'm really glad I took the plunge, it's incredible sounding to me. Rich and engaging, with a lovely tone. Matches my amp preferences nicely. And it's so small! I love the aesthetics. Hope you like it as much as I do. I will say the stock tubes are only so so. The amp with stock tubes had a slight haziness to it that cleared up as soon as I put in a nice set of NOS tubes. Maybe I needed to give them more time to open up, i'm not sure. Just wasn't liking what I was hearing with them as much.

 

[theveterans]

Guys cables don't affect sound unless they are super long.

As always YMMV

Paul McGowan of PS Audio had a video last week I think where he discussed cables. To sum up his thoughts; He believes that a good cable doesn't lose any piece of information when the signal passes through. If you hear differences between cables it's a question of what is being lost from a less than optimal cable.

To test his thoughts, try a really, really nice power cord. They make much more of an impact than ICs in terms of sheer transparency or preventing loss of info to me

 

[erics75]

Guys cables don't affect sound unless they are super long.

As others have said, this argument belongs in another thread. Those who believe will believe, those who don't wont. There's no point going around in circles as neither side will yield. It's like politics and religion, best left unsaid to avoid a pointless war of words.

 

[Wes S]

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[erics75]

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How's it going Wes? I know you're a big Aegis fan, have you rolled in any other amps lately for your ZMFs? Wish I was close by, would love to hear some of those exotic tube combos you're rocking on the Aegis!

 

[Wes S]

How's it going Wes? I know you're a big Aegis fan, have you rolled in any other amps lately for your ZMFs? Wish I was close by, would love to hear some of those exotic tube combos you're rocking on the Aegis!

I am absolutely enthralled with the Aegis and Caldera Closed at the moment, and it doesn't get any better for my preferences. Honestly, the sound I am getting is so darn magical, I have no desire to try anything else, so I haven't rolled or used any other amps lately. I see you have been doing quite the opposite, and I wish you were close by too. I would love to see if you could sway me away from the Aegis, and I would love to blow your mind with my exotic tube rolls. I have a feeling I would absolutely love your DNA amps.

Happy Listening Buddy!