[Honeypot]

.

 

[Honeypot]

Is there a specific version of these tubes you are suggesting? Where can I find them?

I usually get them on ebay.

The version is pretty straight forward. These are e88cc Amperex bugle boy or e88cc Tungsram. You may also find them by 6922 Amperex Bugle boy or Tungsram.

Obviously there are measurements and different types like o getter, d getter (more expensive ones for the bugle boy).

But overall, any of these should make your echo sing very differently.

Also if you want to get a bit deeper, you could get a pair of e88cc to 5670 converter and get ge 5670 triple micra or even we396a. These are even better sounding tubes.

 

[MacMan31]

I usually get them on ebay.

The version is pretty straight forward. These are e88cc Amperex bugle boy or e88cc Tungsram. You may also find them by 6922 Amperex Bugle boy or Tungsram.

Obviously there are measurements and different types like o getter, d getter (more expensive ones for the bugle boy).

But overall, any of these should make your echo sing very differently.

Also if you want to get a bit deeper, you could get a pair of e88cc to 5670 converter and get ge 5670 triple micra or even we396a. These are even better sounding tubes.

Like these ones? https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649797634-bagle-boy-ecc886dj8-made-in-holland/

 

[AnyDave]

Like these ones? https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649797634-bagle-boy-ecc886dj8-made-in-holland/

None of my headphone amps use 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes, but my (now very old) BAT preamp in my 2-channel setup does. I generally preferred Amperex tubes in it. Those white label Holland 6DJ8s are plentiful, sound good, and can be had for reasonable prices. I would also keep an eye out for the white label US made Amperex 7308s as those are wonderful, but harder to find and a bit more expensive. Once I put in the 7308s, I stopped tube rolling.

 

[MacMan31]

None of my headphone amps use 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes, but my (now very old) BAT preamp in my 2-channel setup does. I generally preferred Amperex tubes in it. Those white label Holland 6DJ8s are plentiful, sound good, and can be had for reasonable prices. I would also keep an eye out for the white label US made Amperex 7308s as those are wonderful, but harder to find and a bit more expensive. Once I put in the 7308s, I stopped tube rolling.

Well you would have to replace the tubes eventually. They don't last forever. But how can I tell if it's a white label or what type of "getter" a tube is?

 

[Honeypot]

Like these ones? https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/649797634-bagle-boy-ecc886dj8-made-in-holland/

Yes, these. They are lacking measurements of the actual tubes. Try to message them and ask about gain (Mu) and current of plates (mA). For instance, a listing for a Tungsram which is same type of tube provides:
Ia1 Ia2 S1 S2
mA mA mA/V mA/V
ECC82 11.0 13.0 2.4 2.8
ECC82 11.0 13.0 2.4 2.7
This parameters are measured at Ua = 250V & Ug1 = -8,5V where 100% is Ia = 10,5mA & S = 2,2mA/V

 

[AnyDave]

Well you would have to replace the tubes eventually. They don't last forever. But how can I tell if it's a white label or what type of "getter" a tube is?

The 7308s are rated for up to 10,000 hours. I have some backup tubes of other types, but it's possible that the tubes in there could last me another 50 years as I don't use my 2 channel setup as often as my headphone amps.


Getters are usually referred to by shape. A halo getter is typically round and a D getter is typically D shaped. It helps to familiarize yourself a bit with tube construction so that you know where to look. The getter is always close to the getter flashing (the shiny silver bit on the side of the tubes). Getters can be at the top of the tube (common), but also on the sides or at the bottom.

 

[Honeypot]

I know it may looks overwhelming at the beginning. But I was in there a few months ago. And people from this forum helped me with useful information on the right direction and my curiosity did the rest.
I am pretty sure you will also enjoy the journey of tubes. It's a part of history that makes you feel and understand a little better this hobby. And, if at the end of the day you don't care about these technicalities, just buy matched tubes mad enjoy.

 

[AudioDuck]

None of my headphone amps use 6DJ8/6922/7308 tubes, but my (now very old) BAT preamp in my 2-channel setup does. I generally preferred Amperex tubes in it. Those white label Holland 6DJ8s are plentiful, sound good, and can be had for reasonable prices. I would also keep an eye out for the white label US made Amperex 7308s as those are wonderful, but harder to find and a bit more expensive. Once I put in the 7308s, I stopped tube rolling.

@MacMan31
As a former Feliks Echo owner (mk I, but not a massive difference in sound I believe) who has used white-label Amperex 7308 tubes in that amp, I can say with certainty that it takes the Echo a leap ahead.

Those 7308s are exceptionally quiet, have loads of slam, and really make the Echo a somewhat new amp. If you prefer a more velvety, less rockin’/“speedy” sound, I’d suggest some NOS (New Old Stock) Mullard or Brimars.

A great and trustworthy source for NOS tubes (albeit overseas) is Langrex in the UK: https://www.langrex.co.uk/.

Another is Brent Jessee:
https://www.audiotubes.com/
Emailing Brent once you’ve had a look is a good move- he’s helpful, honest, and knows tubes really well. He will steer you right. Langrex is more for what you know what you want, but they are a great shop with very fair prices and great service if you should run into issues (which is very unlikely).

I looked for 7308s at Langrex, and they have a few. Not sure if Sylvania’s offerings were as good as Amperex’- you’ll have to check a bit.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=7308&post_type=product

A couple of warnings: You are now entering the proverbial tube rabbit hole, and it may take a while to emerge with sonic satisfaction (see my profile image ). It can also get a bit expensive, depending on what you define as your “holy grail” level of sound, as well as you budget.

And… there can be a fair amount of reading and research involved, both here and elsewhere on the Net.

If the 7308s eventually also entice you to want to upgrade further, I would recommend looking at Woo Audio’s amps.

If you are specifically staying with ZMF dynamic-driver headphones, the Woo Audio WA2 is a wonderful amp, and there’s a used one listed here or on US AudioMart for $950, which is a pretty excellent price these days. If that suits your budget and you are curious, check out the WA2 and Woo Audio threads here on Head-Fi. You are also welcome to DM me…

Did I mention this could get expensive?


EDIT:
@Honeypot nailed it. About three years ago I knew nothing about tubes, went down the rabbit hole, bumbled around for a while, learned a lot, and emerged with a great setup that I love. It’s worth the investment, BUT there can be a few shortcuts if you do your research and don’t spend randomly.

 

[AnyDave]

@MacMan31
As a former Feliks Echo owner (mk I, but not a massive difference in sound I believe) who has used white-label Amperex 7308 tubes in that amp, I can say with certainty that it takes the Echo a leap ahead.

Those 7308s are exceptionally quiet, have loads of slam, and really make the Echo a somewhat new amp. If you prefer a more velvety, less rockin’/“speedy” sound, I’d suggest some NOS (New Old Stock) Mullard or Brimars.

A great and trustworthy source for NOS tubes (albeit overseas) is Langrex in the UK: https://www.langrex.co.uk/.

Another is Brent Jessee:
https://www.audiotubes.com/
Emailing Brent once you’ve had a look is a good move- he’s helpful, honest, and knows tubes really well. He will steer you right. Langrex is more for what you know what you want, but they are a great shop with very fair prices and great service if you should run into issues (which is very unlikely).

I looked for 7308s at Langrex, and they have a few. Not sure if Sylvania’s offerings were as good as Amperex’- you’ll have to check a bit.
https://www.langrex.co.uk/?s=7308&post_type=product

A couple of warnings: You are now entering the proverbial tube rabbit hole, and it may take a while to emerge with sonic satisfaction (see my profile image ). It can also get a bit expensive, depending on what you define as your “holy grail” level of sound, as well as you budget.

And… there can be a fair amount of reading and research involved, both here and elsewhere on the Net.

If the 7308s eventually also entice you to want to upgrade further, I would recommend looking at Woo Audio’s amps.

If you are specifically staying with ZMF dynamic-driver headphones, the Woo Audio WA2 is a wonderful amp, and there’s a used one listed here or on US AudioMart for $950, which is a pretty excellent price these days. If that suits your budget and you are curious, check out the WA2 and Woo Audio threads here on Head-Fi. You are also welcome to DM me…

Did I mention this could get expensive?


EDIT:
@Honeypot nailed it. About three years ago I knew nothing about tubes, went down the rabbit hole, bumbled around for a while, learned a lot, and emerged with a great setup that I love. It’s worth the investment, BUT there can be a few shortcuts if you do your research and don’t spend randomly.

Unfortunately, the Sylvanias I've tried were nowhere near the Amperex.

The only other piece of advise I'd throw out there in regards to 7308s is that they are some of the more faked tubes I've come across, so it's helpful to go with a known seller if possible. Brent Jessie is a great recommendation as he will steer you correctly. Also, ask him about 6922 tubes, which are the same tube type as the 7308, just not premium graded. But the Amperex pinched waist 6922s are some of the most popular of all time and many prefer them to the 7308 Amperex tubes.

Tubes can indeed be daunting at first. There are so many options and so many different sounds out there. It's absolutely one of the advantages of tube amps, but it can be a bit of a learning curve finding out what you want and what works best in your system. But it is a very fun journey. Preamp tubes last a LONG time, so I've had good luck buying strong testing used tubes for less money, which allows me to find out what I really like. I can always hunt down NOS of the preferred variant once I figure out what that is.

 

[Monsterzero]

Another is Brent Jessee:

Brent Jessie

Well you would have to replace the tubes eventually. They don't last forever. But how can I tell if it's a white label or what type of "getter" a tube is?

As Dave and Duck, which would be a great name for a law firm, mentioned, Brent has a pretty solid list of legit tubes. That being said, his prices are quite a bit higher than what you can find on eBay. Essentially, you're paying not only for the tube, but also your own peace of mind, knowing that the tube you wanted is the tube you will receive from Brent and other reputable online tube dealers.
Another guy I've bought from a few times and had good results was from Andy at https://vintagetubeservices.com/

Eventually you may find your tube IQ has gotten to the point where you might feel comfortable buying from eBay sellers, of which there's some quality sellers there as well as not so great too.

One has to be careful treading the dangerous waters of eBay, otherwise you might end up spending big on tubes that aren't quite what they seem, like this situation just a couple weeks ago...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/for-6as7g-tube-rollers-here.410326/page-636#post-18068341

EDIT: I should mention that I'm not singling out @elig63 . We've all been in this same situation at one time or the other. Heck, up until I sold my GOTL, I routinely needed to verify some rectifiers I was considering purchasing with @gibosi

Better to ask than to have your $ stolen.

 

[AudioDuck]

As Dave and Duck, which would be a great name for a law firm,

Hmmm- “AudioDuck, Esquire” or “AudioDuck, Attorney-At-Law”. It does have a nice ring to it.

What do you say, @AnyDave - perhaps we should hang up a proverbial shingle?

(Image courtesy of CoPilot/Dall-E. No idea what the numbers are supposed to mean- they aren’t tube designators, sadly)

 

[MacMan31]

I know it may looks overwhelming at the beginning. But I was in there a few months ago. And people from this forum helped me with useful information on the right direction and my curiosity did the rest.
I am pretty sure you will also enjoy the journey of tubes. It's a part of history that makes you feel and understand a little better this hobby. And, if at the end of the day you don't care about these technicalities, just buy matched tubes mad enjoy.

I have bought a few other pairs of tubes for my Echo Mk2. Just a couple pairs I bought on this site here https://www.thetubestore.com/preamp-tubes/6922-e88cc-tube-types. Also these ones. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/ I may grab another pair of these.

 

[AnyDave]

Hmmm- “AudioDuck, Esquire” or “AudioDuck, Attorney-At-Law”. It does have a nice ring to it.

What do you say, @AnyDave - perhaps we should hang up a proverbial shingle?

(Image courtesy of CoPilot/Dall-E. No idea what the numbers are supposed to mean- they aren’t tube designators, sadly)

OK, I'm in. I'd better start growing my beard out, though.

 

[AudioDuck]

I have bought a few other pairs of tubes for my Echo Mk2. Just a couple pairs I bought on this site here https://www.thetubestore.com/preamp-tubes/6922-e88cc-tube-types. Also these ones. https://www.langrex.co.uk/products/12at7-cv455-kb-fb-brimar-rare-triple-mica-1956-nos-valve-tube/ I may grab another pair of these.

I’m a huge fan of the Brimar CV455, but I’d recommend checking that it is usable with the Echo II. You will, at minimum, need a pair of pin adapters- but the amp needs to be compatible with 12AT7s… please ignore if you already did this.