[zolkis]

   I went Tokyo Headphone festival 1996 today.
and I audition Senn HE1 + esoteric X05 disk player at headphone festival.
Not so impressed me at all.
I listen to CD Eiji Owe, Minnesota Orc. Stravinsky Fire Bird Suite(Reference Recording).
then I went my home and listened to same CD with SR-L700 + SRM007tA(maybe lesser amp than HE1) + Luxman DA-200(maybe lesser DAC than esoterics) combo.
HE1 sound fuller bass(+1) and not so impressed treble(slightly muddy). not so impressed.
L700 sound more musical and articulate treble and less bass.
I guess Headphone technology has already reached technological plateau.

 
First impressions often deceive. Maybe it takes more time to appreciate the HE1, but it's indeed surprising that you speak about muddy treble. Sennheiser claims they spent a lot of time on optimize the diaphragm thickness, tension and properties. Also, they spent so much effort on properly energize it... perhaps it is *them* who'd need some further optimizations to get that treble better, or could it be due to synergy with the other equipment?
 
I think even if there is a plateau, it won't last for long. Stax has made a few breakthroughs with the 009, what I would ask for is only a slight optimization or tuning towards the 007 or HE1000, that would result in a sound as close to perfect as I can imagine from a headphone.
 
On the other hand, when we compare the decades old SR-5 [Gold] with the current tech (007 and 009), they are not *that* far in musical enjoyment than they are in time, so you are right in a way, and actually they all are using similar diaphragms (OK, I don't know what diaphragm the 009 has, maybe not Mylar any more).
 
But I expect new diaphragm materials will emerge and that might be a jump.

 

[AnakChan]

   I went Tokyo Headphone festival 1996 today.
and I audition Senn HE1 + esoteric X05 disk player at headphone festival.
Not so impressed me at all.
I listen to CD Eiji Owe, Minnesota Orc. Stravinsky Fire Bird Suite(Reference Recording).
then I went my home and listened to same CD with SR-L700 + SRM007tA(maybe lesser amp than HE1) + Luxman DA-200(maybe lesser DAC than esoterics) combo.
HE1 sound fuller bass(+1) and not so impressed treble(slightly muddy). not so impressed.
L700 sound more musical and articulate treble and less bass. overall L700 sound more musical than HE1 for me IMO.
I guess Headphone technology has already reached technological plateau.

 
That's interesting. When did you test it? Today before the crowd came in or during (you pre-booked/won the lottery to demo)? Personally I enjoyed the HE1 but I think I was expecting more from all that's been written in the past few months. However that's not the HE1's fault but mine for having expectations.

 

[lojay]

I had two private sessions with the HE1 totalling over an hour and a half. The first session was at a rather noisy venue and I had only 20 minutes. I wasn't impressed and thought I didn't hear anything better than my Stax rig.

The next occasion was in a quiet hotel room. This time, I was very impressed by their technical ability and clarity. It certainly didn't have muddy treble compared to the SR009 but I didn't feel it's treble was necessarily better. Rather, it had a more expansive soundstage. It had much more stage height. Sonic cues were spread out wider and in a clearer fashion. The bass was on par or perhaps slightly more in quantity. Not particularly better in quality.

A colleague of mine also went with me and tested the other HE1 available in a hotel suite. We then went back to our office next to the hotel where my T2/SR009 rig was. He liked my T2 better as he felt that while the HE1 was technically impressive, the T2/ SR009 had a more natural presentation and soundstage. The HE1 makes it sound like the listener is sitting under the piano in a concerto, but the T2 puts you in the audience.

I have since come to the conclusion that, as impressive the HE1 is, it lacks the naturalness and ease and musicality that my TOTL Stax rig delivers. With the HE1 what you have is hyperrealism. With the SR009 there is realism.

 

[Ali-Pacha]

009 + DIY T2 are definitely a bargain 

Wait... 

Ali

 

[zolkis]

It certainly didn't have muddy treble compared to the SR009 but I didn't feel it's treble was necessarily better. Rather, it had a more expansive soundstage. It had much more stage height. Sonic cues were spread out wider and in a clearer fashion. The bass was on par or perhaps slightly more in quantity. Not particularly better in quality.

 He liked my T2 better as he felt that while the HE1 was technically impressive, the T2/ SR009 had a more natural presentation and soundstage. The HE1 makes it sound like the listener is sitting under the piano in a concerto, but the T2 puts you in the audience.

I have since come to the conclusion that, as impressive the HE1 is, it lacks the naturalness and ease and musicality that my TOTL Stax rig delivers. With the HE1 what you have is hyperrealism. With the SR009 there is realism.

 
Wow, that speaks volumes. I can totally relate to the naturalness of the 009. Suddenly a DIY T2 or Carbon is not that far from affordable .
Still, I wish the 009 was a bit tuned towards the 007, if one can ask such things.

 

[zeid2]

Post cancelled.

 

[astrostar59]

Interesting and very informative though inconclusive tests (not your fault). I had the MK2.5s in Black UK about 2008. They were pretty horrid, very boxy and dull, lifeless. I then heard a MK1 and it was less boxy and the treble more clear and forward, less veiled. I later bought the 007A from PJ late 2015 and it sounded just like the Mk1, nice and clean and clear and no boxy bass hump. Also seemed to have less frame resonance and cleaner bass response. Recently I also heard another MK 2.5 black UK sourced and it also sounded the same as my 2.5. It sounded as though a graphic EQ had been applied and various areas of the frequency response were dropped out. It sounded like it was interacting with the frame as well, and had the old boxy sound again.
 
So I would still say some of the current Silver Japanese issue 007As are really good, as good as the MK1 IMO, some could end up being a bit off though as you say, and definitely many of the 007 MK2/3s are dull and boxy sounding. Possibly the 007s you heard were early versions. IMO the 007A Mk2 got good from 2015 onwards.
 
My experiences so far with the 007.

 

[zolkis]

Just my two cents to the everlasting debate on various versions of the SR-007.

This is really confusing... so the latest and greatest thing apostrophed "007A" on this forum is not *that* 007?
 
I think it would make more sense identifying the SR-007's based on how they sound comparatively to each other, rather than their serial number.
At least we've got some cues from you description for what to avoid, "shouty upper midrange/lower treble".
 
I have quite extensive experience with various ear pads on the 007, and the differences can be (measurably) so big that I start to believe there is more to the variance in the ear pads than the variance in the drivers. 
 
It seems that one series that sounds consistently the same (good or bad, I leave it to the reader), that is the ones coming in the old carbon box with rubber corner protectors, and brown ear pads and serials starting with 70 or 71. The port mod is not applicable on these.
 
Now it seems we can add the SZ3 2009 batch to another consistent group (I am not judging the sound quality, just saying it's consistent). The port mod is recommended on these.
 
Now the people who have recommended the new 007A, could you confirm which serial numbers are the "good" ones?

 

[potkettleblack]

Spent the day with the L700 and 007mk2 played through the 353X and the 006ts

Have to say that as much of a fan I was and am of the L700 they're simply not on the same level as the 007 and tend to exhibit quite a bit of glare with certain recordings. Very impressive for the price but the 007's would be my choice.

Between the 006 and 353 - the 006 again was a clear step up when using both the L700 and 007. The 353 being grainier and less refined.

 

[zeid2]

Post cancelled

 

[astrostar59]

Spent the day with the L700 and 007mk2 played through the 353X and the 006ts

Have to say that as much of a fan I was and am of the L700 they're simply not on the same level as the 007 and tend to exhibit quite a bit of glare with certain recordings. Very impressive for the price but the 007's would be my choice.

Between the 006 and 353 - the 006 again was a clear step up when using both the L700 and 007. The 353 being grainier and less refined.

Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
 
1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
3. Lower dynamics and bass extension / amount to the 007s
4. Lack of bass amount emphasises the treble balance which can sound airy on some vocal and Classical recording, but off on other types such as Rock.
 
Bear in mind a lot of the perceived weakness to the Lambda and 007 can be partly resolved on a non Stax amp IMO.
Also you need a smooth DAC. Budget DACs or brighter DACs will never pair well with Stax headphones IMO.

 

[potkettleblack]

 
Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
 
1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
3. Lower dynamics and bass extension / amount to the 007s
4. Lack of bass amount emphasises the treble balance which can sound airy on some vocal and Classical recording, but off on other types such as Rock.
 
Bear in mind a lot of the perceived weakness to the Lambda and 007 can be partly resolved on a non Stax amp IMO.
Also you need a smooth DAC. Budget DACs or brighter DACs will never pair well with Stax headphones IMO.

It was certainly improved when played through the 006 but was still present. Also the stage is dramatically smaller when compared to the 007/009.
 
Either way I still think the L700 represent great value for money. As an example I would certainly pick the l700/353X combo for the price, over something like the HE1000. Actually, as much as I like the HE1000, it makes it seem like a bit of a rip off.
 
I'm sure there are non-Stax amps that could take both to their capable levels - but it's the support and reliability that worries me. The 006st and 007 combo would make me extremely happy. I was also quite surprised at how close the 007 and 009 were out of the 006ts, technically speaking. The muddy darkness seemed to be a lot more apparent on the 353X than with the 006ts, where the balance was quite lovely to be honest. In fact it was really, really lovely.

 

[zolkis]

Hmm, seems Stax still have the 'weaknesses' of the Lambda range in the new L700 then? A few things I think are at fault on the Lambdas:
 
1. Smaller drivers not over the ears so less dynamics and less bass output
2. The old treble 'etch' so many used to complain about
3. Lower dynamics and bass extension / amount to the 007s
4. Lack of bass amount emphasises the treble balance which can sound airy on some vocal and Classical recording, but off on other types such as Rock.

 
IMHO the L700 is a clear step above the 507 and much less "Lambda" sound than before. It's still a bit ethereal, the treble is fine but needs a smooth amp, the bass is fine but needs power. It sounds good with a wide range of genres, and qualifies as a fine single headphone for all kinds of music.
 
The Omegas as smoother and have fleshier, more realistic timbre, more solid sound and better stage too. But you'd know this only when comparing them directly. On first impression, the L700 beats a lot of more expensive headphones, especially with a good tube amp or a smooth solid state. As I said before, if the 507 was as good as the L700, likely I wouldn't have stepped up to the 007 and then to the 009 and then amps after amps and mod the 007 (pads) for 2 years until I liked it more than the 009. That's the good thing about the 507 not being perfect .
 
So the main threat I see with the L700 is that people will be fine with it and will have harder time justifying to spend more, or much more on headphones .

 

[potkettleblack]

Surely Stax are due to release a new flagship or replacements for the 009/007 soon?
 
We will probably know a week in advance going by their track record.

 

[zeid2]

To my question Sasaki-san two days ago replied that a replacement of the SR-007 is certainly not imminent and lies further in future. But yes, of course, he would not have disclosed his company's plans even if a new headphone was to appear next week.