The Stax Thread III
Feb 12, 2015 at 10:36 AM Post #4,441 of 25,609
Earpad is critical indeed but it's only one part of the equation. I certainly do not believe all the difference between the 007 and 009 is coming from the pad exclusively. The enclosure differs, the drivers size differs, the stators differ, the membrane material differs, the DS gap differs. Most of all, one is miles more resolving (007 treble is a 10kHz peak, 009 is more even there and doesn't rely on one resonance to resolve treble). Sounstage layering is so much more precise on the 009, a pad can't possibly be the only factor for this.

I am not saying pad doesn't matter, far from it. Heck, I even showed the hughe influence of pad design on stat phone tonal balance some time back in the diy thread. i also think zolkis work is fantastic / really worth exploring to fine tune the phone to ones taste.

The distance from the driver to the ear, the orientation, the amount of leakage through the pad, the volume of the earpad cavity, all these parameters have a huge influence on any headphone response, and stat phones in particular as they very much rely on this loading effect (more so than typical massive ortho or dynamic phones driver).

 
These are indeed valid factors. The 009 has better technology for sure. The increased efficiency alone may be enough reason to prefer it. Also, I noticed that the 009 is far less sensitive to ear pad changes than the 007 Mk1. And it's easier to adjust to head, and more comfortable. And the sound is more neutral (the modded 007 Mk1 is still warmer and more euphonic).
 
I think it is safer to say that it was the 007 Mk1 which was held back because the ear pad. Even with the stock 009 earpads it sounds much more open, but then the small change in stuffing elevated it to a new level. It became more open for sure. The felt ring helped the treble, midrange and bass resolution. The sound stage layering IMO is on par with the modded 009 and better than the stock 009. The 009 has all the reasons to sound better, and perhaps it needs a more educated ear and precise measurements to tell which is objectively better. However, based on my auditive perception and a wide range of music I listen to, both the 009 and 007 Mk1 sound much better now, and are on about the same level of "enjoyability". Yes, there are small differences here or there, mainly coming from the different optimal stuffing, and in rest, to smaller extent, from structural differences. And when it comes to the subjective terms of musicality, I slightly prefer the modded 007 Mk1 overall, albeit I like many things with the 009 more. I am sure there would be people to keep both, but I am fine with the modded 007 Mk1.
 
Please note that I said that I have found the stock 007 Mk1 quite much inferior to the 009. But then the modded 009 is much better in my opinion than the stock one, especially in the bass (extension, resolution, resonance), in the deeper sound stage and in the clarity of tones.
 
I would advise adventurous 009 owners to try my mod, it will cost them about 5-6 euros for the wool felt pad, 15 euros for the Olfa circular cutter, and 10-30 minutes of work. It's hard for me to imagine someone won't like the results more than the original, but in that case the mod can be reversed. There is no better test than verifying the claims by independent parties.
 
For 007 Mk1 owners the situation is more complex, since a replacement 009 pad is needed, and even small changes in the carbon foam part have audible effects. I will start a thread with steps, exact dimensions, and pictures.
 
Feb 12, 2015 at 5:59 PM Post #4,448 of 25,609
Arnaud, which 007 are you referring to with respect to the treble peak?


The mk2.5 I had previously was pretty obvious but my current mk1 (early series so one of the more even / tonally warm versions) also has it in milder proportion but still easy to spot when switching to / from the SR009. It's at ~10kHz so it just comes as a bit more sizzle, nothing hissy or shouty, but it does sound a tiny bit "fake" to me (all is relative, for a stat I mean :wink: ) coming from the 009. If the 007mk1 did not have this 10k peak, it would sound totally muffled and even more closed in like ... an old LCD2. 
 
Also, mind you I am driving my O2 with underpowered amp, the treble response will hopefully improve with the upcoming BHSE.
 
 
arnaud
 
Feb 13, 2015 at 1:15 AM Post #4,449 of 25,609
Earpad is critical indeed but it's only one part of the equation. I certainly do not believe all the difference between the 007 and 009 is coming from the pad exclusively. The enclosure differs, the drivers size differs, the stators differ, the membrane material differs, the DS gap differs. Most of all, one is miles more resolving (007 treble is a 10kHz peak, 009 is more even there and doesn't rely on one resonance to resolve treble). Sounstage layering is so much more precise on the 009, a pad can't possibly be the only factor for this.

I am not saying pad doesn't matter, far from it. Heck, I even showed the hughe influence of pad design on stat phone tonal balance some time back in the diy thread. i also think zolkis work is fantastic / really worth exploring to fine tune the phone to ones taste.

The distance from the driver to the ear, the orientation, the amount of leakage through the pad, the volume of the earpad cavity, all these parameters have a huge influence on any headphone response, and stat phones in particular as they very much rely on this loading effect (more so than typical massive ortho or dynamic phones driver).
But saying all the 009 innovation lies in the pad is silly.

Arnaud

Can you also give us a link to this earlier post?
 
Feb 14, 2015 at 12:46 PM Post #4,450 of 25,609
Stax prices on used market are inflating dangerously...what is it all about ? 
mad.gif

 
Ali
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 4:17 AM Post #4,452 of 25,609
  Could you post a link to the diy thread about pad modifications? I am having trouble finding it.


Took some effort to dig this up: http://www.head-fi.org/t/498292/my-diy-electrostatic-headphones/585#post_8738868
 
cheers,
arnaud
 
Feb 15, 2015 at 8:08 PM Post #4,453 of 25,609
So, just how stupid would it be to get an SR-009 and then run it off an energizer or cheaper Stax amp (SRM-1 MK2, SRM-252S)?  I'm about 3/4 done saving for a used pair and honestly I can't spare enough for BHSE/KGSSHV, ever. An energizer or older amp would probably be used until I get something better like an SRM-323. 
 
I searched and haven't found anyone who has done this. I actually did try the cheapo 252S with an 009 a long time ago and it wasn't too bad, just not loud enough (wasn't on my source so maybe that was the issue).  
 

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