[gammi]

Absolutely agree about sounds benefits and sound pains. I thought I would be annoyed by the hassle, but I find that I enjoy the ritual. On that note, I am concerned that my wife and I are drawn to warm distortion (part of the ritual) more than better SQ, which kind of defeats the purpose of using estats. The higher noise floor is also unmistakably annoying.

What I notice though is that with vinyl no instrument or note ever sounds the slightest bit (pun intended!) off in terms of timing. As in, ever. I've never bought an external clock for digital, but maybe that's the draw for clocks, as my digital setup, as "perfect" as it sounds in so many ways, never sounds consistently perfectly timed.

Now, if distortion is the cause for everything always seeming in its right place with vinyl, then please direct me to the Distortion section of your local library. For now I look forward to a week off from work and many many AB tests

I'm getting a bit off topic here, sorry, but perhaps you should consider an R2R DAC. I see in your bio you're using a delta sigma DAC and these are known to sound more "digital" than R2R DACs. Many people find that R2R DACs give them a more organic vinyl-like sound. I suggest looking at Holo Audio Cyan 2 and Gustard R26. And if you have deep pockets, check out the Holo Audio Spring 3 and May.

You may be able to avoid pivoting to vinyl simply by making your digital music sound less digital

 

[Aspirant Audiophile]

I'm getting a bit off topic here, sorry, but perhaps you should consider an R2R DAC. I see in your bio you're using a delta sigma DAC and these are known to sound more "digital" than R2R DACs. Many people find that R2R DACs give them a more organic vinyl-like sound. I suggest looking at Holo Audio Cyan 2 and Gustard R26. And if you have deep pockets, check out the Holo Audio Spring 3 and May.

You may be able to avoid pivoting to vinyl simply by making your digital music sound less digital

That's a fair point. I tried a Holo May early in my "journey" and wasn't impressed, TBH. Vinyl-like without sounding like vinyl. I switched to Delta Sigma in search of utmost precision. But every note seems .00001 seconds too short.

I have a friend with a Gustard, and he likes to trade stuff, so...

 

[BassicScience]

I'm getting a bit off topic here, sorry, but perhaps you should consider an R2R DAC. I see in your bio you're using a delta sigma DAC and these are known to sound more "digital" than R2R DACs. Many people find that R2R DACs give them a more organic vinyl-like sound. I suggest looking at Holo Audio Cyan 2 and Gustard R26. And if you have deep pockets, check out the Holo Audio Spring 3 and May.

You may be able to avoid pivoting to vinyl simply by making your digital music sound less digital

Known by whom? I owned a Holo Spring 3 for about a week, and it certainly wasn't my conclusion that it sounded less "digital" than my D/S DACs.

 

[gammi]

Known by whom? I owned a Holo Spring 3 for about a week, and it certainly wasn't my conclusion that it sounded less "digital" than my D/S DACs.

Known can mean known by some, known by many, known by all. Don't need it to be 100% fact agreed on by literally everyone to say something is known. Thanks for sharing your experience, though. I've seen R2R referred to as organic/vinyl like probably 200 times on this site, that's what I'm referencing when I say it's "known" to be that way. Also for what it's worth, many have expressed opinions that they find Holo Spring to be on the more "digital" side of the spectrum compared to other R2R DACs.

Delta sigma DACs often suffer from ringing because delta sigma inherently oversamples. Ringing can be better visualized in upsampled images where the image is artificially sharp, same thing happens in audio, the sound is sharpened. Overshoot and undershoot are corollaries with ringing as well and it sounds like what Asprirant might be hearing is the effect of ringing on the decay of notes causing them to overshoot decay or in the inverse, undershoot sustain.

Actually Aspirant, I wonder if you might like a NOS R2R DAC that you feed with music that has been oversampled with a "long" filter. I bet if you messed around with HQPlayer filters, you could find a combo that would lengthen the timing enough for you. Only works on a NOS DAC since others will apply their own oversampling on top of whatever you feed it.

I don't mean to clog the stax thread with more DAC talk, sorry. If anyone wants to DM, feel free.

 

[Firschi]

I meant power in mA, how does a CCS modded T1S compare to the 717 in mA?

Ampere, in this case Milliampere, respectively, is a measure of current. From the top of my head, a stock SRM-717 outputs approx. 7mA. It's rated for a max output level of 450V RMS, that in reality is exceeded by most units.

Implementing CCS in a T1/T1S/006t increases the max output level to or even over 400V RMS.

 

[alota]

That's a fair point. I tried a Holo May early in my "journey" and wasn't impressed, TBH. Vinyl-like without sounding like vinyl. I switched to Delta Sigma in search of utmost precision. But every note seems .00001 seconds too short.

I have a friend with a Gustard, and he likes to trade stuff, so...

Try a dac based on philips tda 1540 chip

 

[alota]

Ampere, in this case Milliampere, respectively, is a measure of current. From the top of my head, a stock SRM-717 outputs approx. 7mA. It's rated for a max output level of 450V RMS, that in reality is exceeded by most units.

Implementing CCS in a T1/T1S/006t increases the max output level to or even over 400V RMS.

007 with ccs is around 400v or more?

 

[Aspirant Audiophile]

Known by whom? I owned a Holo Spring 3 for about a week, and it certainly wasn't my conclusion that it sounded less "digital" than my D/S DACs.

I mean... When I tested the Holo May, "sounds like vinyl" was the central argument of the sales rep, to the extent that I was advised to use no aspect of the DAC except the NOS filter.

 

[KDS315]

I mean... When I tested the Holo May, "sounds like vinyl" was the central argument of the sales rep, to the extent that I was advised to use no aspect of the DAC except the NOS filter.

Funny "NOS filter" as NOS means NO OVERSAMPLING FILTER :LOL:

 

[astromaddie]

You are probably better off going to headcase for help

I can try there, but head-fi is certainly more active so I wanted to try here first.

 

[alota]

I can try there, but head-fi is certainly more active so I wanted to try here first.

It s a good advice. Head-case is more active in this way

 

[shabta]

I can try there, but head-fi is certainly more active so I wanted to try here first.

Headcase is where many DIYers of electrostatic amps hang out and they are very active...

 

[mulveling]

@Aspirant Audiophile
I use vinyl with Stax. It's absolutely wonderful (009 / DIY T2). It's just that I spend the vast majority of listening time in front of speakers these days (Tannoys). You'll want a really good phono stage. Consider that with a typical MC cartridge, you're looking at up to 120 dB of gain from cartridge to stators I always like a voluptuous, full-sounding SUT (Bob's Devices Sky, EAR MC-4) up front with MC cartridges, and they help keep noise floor down too. A full-bodied, punchy sounding cartridge is a good match for Stax - like a Shelter or an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. Output levels 0.4 - 0.6mV help keep noise floor down.

I remember the old "this digital source is vinyl-like" hoodwink, lol. That got me into a Meridian G08 back in the day when it was brand new and being hyped - I liked it better than other CD player & DAC brands at the time, but it wasn't quite there to "vinyl like". Learned later on, G08 is probably my least favorite Meridian. I like their older stuff (508, 588) and their higher end stuff (808) a LOT more. I'm actually playing with an 808v5 and Ultra DAC right now that's incredible - so smooth, so layered. Kind of an addictive sound. This is after almost 15 years of exclusive vinyl play. A great vinyl source still has this vibrant, brilliant midrange that digital can never match (probably) - but at the expense of "other problems" which you try to mitigate with setup and increasingly high-end phono gear. The Meridians have come WAY down in price (still a bit expensive) due to the loss of MQA, etc.

I don't know the "lay of the digital land" now - it's been so long - but I know I like the big Meridians, and know I DON'T like the Esoteric stuff (my dealer carries it). I had 2 kinds of OG Yggdrasils which were OK-ish. Oh I also tried the RME ADI-2 Pro Black Ed - RME's always sound like the exact opposite of what I consider listenable. Packed that back up the same day I got it; never want to hear an RME ever again.

 

[Aspirant Audiophile]

@Aspirant Audiophile
I use vinyl with Stax. It's absolutely wonderful (009 / DIY T2). It's just that I spend the vast majority of listening time in front of speakers these days (Tannoys). You'll want a really good phono stage. Consider that with a typical MC cartridge, you're looking at up to 120 dB of gain from cartridge to stators I always like a voluptuous, full-sounding SUT (Bob's Devices Sky, EAR MC-4) up front with MC cartridges, and they help keep noise floor down too. A full-bodied, punchy sounding cartridge is a good match for Stax - like a Shelter or an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. Output levels 0.4 - 0.6mV help keep noise floor down.

I remember the old "this digital source is vinyl-like" hoodwink, lol. That got me into a Meridian G08 back in the day when it was brand new and being hyped - I liked it better than other CD player & DAC brands at the time, but it wasn't quite there to "vinyl like". Learned later on, G08 is probably my least favorite Meridian. I like their older stuff (508, 588) and their higher end stuff (808) a LOT more. I'm actually playing with an 808v5 and Ultra DAC right now that's incredible - so smooth, so layered. Kind of an addictive sound. This is after almost 15 years of exclusive vinyl play. A great vinyl source still has this vibrant, brilliant midrange that digital can never match (probably) - but at the expense of "other problems" which you try to mitigate with setup and increasingly high-end phono gear. The Meridians have come WAY down in price (still a bit expensive) due to the loss of MQA, etc.

I don't know the "lay of the digital land" now - it's been so long - but I know I like the big Meridians, and know I DON'T like the Esoteric stuff (my dealer carries it). I had 2 kinds of OG Yggdrasils which were OK-ish. Oh I also tried the RME ADI-2 Pro Black Ed - RME's always sound like the exact opposite of what I consider listenable. Packed that back up the same day I got it; never want to hear an RME ever again.

At attention and taking notes! Back later...

 

[number1sixerfan]

@Aspirant Audiophile
I use vinyl with Stax. It's absolutely wonderful (009 / DIY T2). It's just that I spend the vast majority of listening time in front of speakers these days (Tannoys). You'll want a really good phono stage. Consider that with a typical MC cartridge, you're looking at up to 120 dB of gain from cartridge to stators I always like a voluptuous, full-sounding SUT (Bob's Devices Sky, EAR MC-4) up front with MC cartridges, and they help keep noise floor down too. A full-bodied, punchy sounding cartridge is a good match for Stax - like a Shelter or an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze. Output levels 0.4 - 0.6mV help keep noise floor down.

I remember the old "this digital source is vinyl-like" hoodwink, lol. That got me into a Meridian G08 back in the day when it was brand new and being hyped - I liked it better than other CD player & DAC brands at the time, but it wasn't quite there to "vinyl like". Learned later on, G08 is probably my least favorite Meridian. I like their older stuff (508, 588) and their higher end stuff (808) a LOT more. I'm actually playing with an 808v5 and Ultra DAC right now that's incredible - so smooth, so layered. Kind of an addictive sound. This is after almost 15 years of exclusive vinyl play. A great vinyl source still has this vibrant, brilliant midrange that digital can never match (probably) - but at the expense of "other problems" which you try to mitigate with setup and increasingly high-end phono gear. The Meridians have come WAY down in price (still a bit expensive) due to the loss of MQA, etc.

I don't know the "lay of the digital land" now - it's been so long - but I know I like the big Meridians, and know I DON'T like the Esoteric stuff (my dealer carries it). I had 2 kinds of OG Yggdrasils which were OK-ish. Oh I also tried the RME ADI-2 Pro Black Ed - RME's always sound like the exact opposite of what I consider listenable. Packed that back up the same day I got it; never want to hear an RME ever again.

Every time you talk about vinyl it makes think I should take it more seriously. It's just the fear of the rabbit hole lol. I definitely can't take my current system with the noise/motor hum that exists and test it out. Would need to step up more seriously to give it a shot.

The flexibility of digital to pivot to any new artist/song at any point has been the main sticking point though. Do you mainly prefer listening to whole albums at a time? I do when cooking, cleaning or working, which is why I play my vinyl system through speakers. But either way, really great insightful info as always.