The Stax Thread III
Jun 10, 2023 at 8:22 PM Post #23,731 of 25,559
Funny, I had an early KGSShv Carbon (non-Mjolnir) and it was definitely brighter than KGST and my favorite KGSShv version. I could not tolerate the 009 or L700 on it for long, though it sounded good other than brightness. 009S or 007 Mk 1 was the far better match there. However there are certainly other KGSShv versions I've heard which are even brighter! And it's very likely later Mjolnir Carbons now sound quite different than what I had. What I've noticed is that generally the specific choice of transistors and (possibly) other amp build considerations have more impact on the sound than tube rolling (say in BHSE or T2).

The difference in sound extends to the T2 versions, too. They use (some) different transistors, and this certainly has more sway on sonics than tube rolling either version. Any (working) T2 version is amazing, but specifically for 009 I feel the older version's pairing is perfect. Like they were made for each other. Other headphones -- I'm not sure which I really prefer :)

It's really interesting to me, as it would seem that most stats really are already slightly bright in nature (fully acknowledging there are many models I haven't heard). Yet most amps are seemingly made to accentuate their nature. Total win for detail/analytical fanatics, but a bit off putting to many that don't fit that bill. That's what sparked my question to begin with.
 
Jun 11, 2023 at 6:44 AM Post #23,733 of 25,559
because solid state amplifiers have a cold sharp sound?
As far as estats go, I would say that’s accurate. I bought a Carbon and KGGG from the same builder at the same time for comparison with the L700 that I had on hand. The Carbon was way too bright sounding. Given what I know of how the 009 vs the L700 sounds on the BHSE, I can’t imagine an amp with less warmth being a good pairing. The 009 needs something to add more warmth and body to the sound for it to be enjoyable in my opinion.
 
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Jun 11, 2023 at 6:46 PM Post #23,734 of 25,559
As far as estats go, I would say that’s accurate. I bought a Carbon and KGGG from the same builder at the same time for comparison with the L700 that I had on hand. The Carbon was way too bright sounding.
For people who feel carbon, etc are too bright with certain 'stats, have you tried good EQ?
 
Jun 11, 2023 at 6:59 PM Post #23,735 of 25,559
For people who feel carbon, etc are too bright with certain 'stats, have you tried good EQ?
Or even a tube preamp, getting a neutral / reference sound is the hard part. Dicking with the sound signature after the fact is the easy part.

I was surprised that some estat makers do their testing solely with BHSE and no amp diversity which means you’re not going to get the correct intended sound signature with anything else most likely.

I’ve tested quite a few vintage amps while restoring them and to me personally “tube sound” is either recessed highs or a fattened up bass region with distortion / channel crosstalk.

My MOSFET / Tube hybrids sound basically identical to 80s pure solid state except a dirty noise floor. Then there are some newer tube designs that are so clean that they sound like solid state…
 
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Jun 11, 2023 at 7:00 PM Post #23,736 of 25,559
because solid state amplifiers have a cold sharp sound?
That is more often the case. However, it's quite possible for SS to be warm too. I had an old "Sanyo 450V version" of KGSShv that was quite warm (warmer than BHSE). However, SS that goes too far warm always feels a bit overdone and flat, somehow. It's never quite as enjoyable as a really good tube amp. I've heard this phenomenon with speaker amps too. SS gear does best when it aims for just slightly warm or neutral, imo.
 
Jun 11, 2023 at 9:55 PM Post #23,737 of 25,559
For people who feel carbon, etc are too bright with certain 'stats, have you tried good EQ?
I haven’t done any EQing
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 4:49 AM Post #23,740 of 25,559
I use APO, but it's hardly a high quality EQ. Its advantages are that it's free and it works system-wide, so it will work on everything, whether games, youtube, etc. However, you will certainly hear a loss in transparency when you use high-Q filters, and especially when you stack many of them close together. However, if you use broader filters with lower Q (<3.5) you can work around it.

Basically, do you gain more in transparency from having a flat FR than you lose in using EQ? In many cases, the answer is that you do, as long as you use the least amount of EQ possible to get close to neutral.

EQing is a skill, and one that takes a while to learn. It's very easy to try to EQ, end up with something that sounds genuinely awful, and then say "yeah EQ sucks, no EQ is better" but the issue is that you're not doing it right, and learning how to takes a fairly long time. And not every headphone will respond well to it either, you want something with a smooth FR, few resonances, and low distortion, and you want an amp with enough headroom to run things above your normal listening volume and not clip, distort, or overheat, since when you boost frequencies you will also need to lower the total output so that the highest peak won't go above 0, or you risk clipping your source.

Of course, if you have a headphone where you like the FR already, you don't need to EQ. And if you are the sort of listener that likes the differences in headphones and you value them for the different presentations they provide, then you also probably don't need to EQ much if at all. For me though, I am looking for a certain sort of sound, and most headphones don't give it to me, so I could chase the dragon and spend thousands upon thousands looking for that perfect headphone - which I've done in the past - or I could just slap an EQ onto something I have already and get it reasonably close, and call it a day.

For Stax, at least for the modern Lambdas, they all have a peak in the mids somewhere around 1.2khz that makes the mids sound nasal, and knocking it out with EQ is pretty easy. The treble is mostly shrill due to emphasis at around 5.5khz or so, and knocking that out also makes the treble smoother. The upper mids in them are a bit recessed but how much really depends on you, some people like a more laid-back upper mid and some want it more present. The rest of the treble past 5-6khz you will need to do by ear since your own ear anatomy will affect what you hear, and you shouldn't try to EQ things to make them sound perfectly flat, just lower the egregious peaks and balance the overall levels. You don't need to get it perfect, you just need to get it close, and the less EQ you use, the less transparency you lose.

Regarding measurements, you can use measurements up to about 2khz, past then they become less reliable, and past 4-5khz it's a complete crapshoot and everybody hears differently. So if you start with a profile that's based on a measurement - it will probably be at least somewhat reliable up to 2khz, and past then, you'll need to make your own.

Lastly, bass extension in 'stats is mostly a seal issue, and fixing bass extension with EQ when you have a 'stat that won't seal properly is a fool's errand. It's much better to try and fix the seal, though not always possible without heavy mods.
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 9:12 PM Post #23,741 of 25,559
How many here unplug their estats after use (for full discharge) vs keep them plugged in (even if the amp is off)? I've read this is better to avoid channel imbalance later on.
I've always done a full discharge, unplug - but now with some of my vintage units I'm thinking it's better to keep them plugged in so the wear on the plug is less.
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 9:36 PM Post #23,742 of 25,559
How many here unplug their estats after use (for full discharge) vs keep them plugged in (even if the amp is off)? I've read this is better to avoid channel imbalance later on.
I've always done a full discharge, unplug - but now with some of my vintage units I'm thinking it's better to keep them plugged in so the wear on the plug is less.
I assume you're speaking of the socket on the amplifier, as that seems far more likely to fail over time than the pins on the plug. In any case, sockets are replaceable (and likely to last many years anyway), so I always unplug/discharge when not using my estat. If the actual plug ever has issues, I'm sure HifiMan would fit a new cable to the headphone for a reasonable fee. With vintage phones, it may well be more of a concern.
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 9:42 PM Post #23,743 of 25,559
How many here unplug their estats after use (for full discharge) vs keep them plugged in (even if the amp is off)? I've read this is better to avoid channel imbalance later on.
I've always done a full discharge, unplug - but now with some of my vintage units I'm thinking it's better to keep them plugged in so the wear on the plug is less.
I used to unplug mine but I modified my converter and SRM-1 now, I setup my bias to discharge the caps and by connection the diaphragms also on power down. My theory is that they are equalised by being discharged together and it stops dust being attracted to them…

Ive never has an imbalance issue anyways.
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 9:48 PM Post #23,744 of 25,559
I assume you're speaking of the socket on the amplifier, as that seems far more likely to fail over time than the pins on the plug. In any case, sockets are replaceable (and likely to last many years anyway), so I always unplug/discharge when not using my estat. If the actual plug ever has issues, I'm sure HifiMan would fit a new cable to the headphone for a reasonable fee. With vintage phones, it may well be more of a concern.

No, the concern is that on a vintage Stax (say an sr-omega) the actual plug will slowly break down and need to be replaced if it’s unplugged every time it’s used.
However on the other side it’s better to unplug and discharge the headphone since leaving it plugged in (even if the amp is off) can keep a small charge in the diaphragm and eventually create a channel imbalance.

Or at least this what is what was once theorized- so I’m trying to get closure on which is more likely risk.
 
Jun 13, 2023 at 10:39 PM Post #23,745 of 25,559
How many here unplug their estats after use (for full discharge) vs keep them plugged in (even if the amp is off)? I've read this is better to avoid channel imbalance later on.
I've always done a full discharge, unplug - but now with some of my vintage units I'm thinking it's better to keep them plugged in so the wear on the plug is less.
I always unplug, and then force discharge by pressing the cable plug pins against the back of my hand. Maybe a bit overkill but I do it without thinking and I've never had an issue in 10 years of 'stat use -- except for the 1st brand new 009S that immediately failed, which was Stax's fault.
 

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