[SolarCetacean]

How can you know if noise will be a problem to the one who asked the question?

That's the neat part, I don't need to. Since the amp doesn't have any intrinsic performance difference between unbalanced and balanced, that user is free to use a grounded RCA to XLR adapter. If they hear noise or a ground loop or whatever, that's when they should invest in a balanced chain. Otherwise, they can use their favorite single-ended source gear without issue.

In software development (my field), there's the saying that "premature optimization is the root of all evil". There's no point in building a complex system scalable to a million concurrent users if your customer only has 50. That scalable system might be technically better but comes with a lot more complexity that will never be used and cost that isn't necessary. Same deal here; if a user has an SE DAC that they like, and the amp is already balanced differential, there's no compelling reason to go full balanced before they know that they have a noise problem.

 

[573531]

Had we not have gone through this discussion how would have somebody for example who read this and tried single ended and had some unsatisfying noise performance (or someone who just wants to be sure that they have the lowest pitch black background noise regardless of audiblity to the particular individual or not) have known that it can be easily fixed with a balanced chain, if misinforming people kept saying there’s no difference?

 

[SolarCetacean]

Had we not gone through this discussion how would have somebody for example who read this and tried single ended and had some unsatisfying noise performance have known that it can be easily fixed with a balanced chain, if misinforming people kept saying there’s no difference?

Maybe one of the thousands of articles out there on getting rid of noise and ground loops, where they would have naturally learned about balanced interconnects? Also, the amps we are talking about, like the KGSSHV, usually only have XLR inputs. Even someone starting with no knowledge of balanced interconnects will realize that their RCA cables don't go into these jacks, and will look up what they are, and learn about balanced interconnects and their benefits that way. People aren't as dumb and helpless as you seem to think that they are. If they somehow miss all of that, they'll just create a new thread on some forum asking about the hum. In fact, they probably won't see an exchange on page 1580 of a Head-Fi thread about this issue, so this discussion isn't as helpful as you seem to think it is.

 

[573531]

Maybe one of the thousands of articles out there on getting rid of noise and ground loops, where they would have naturally learned about balanced interconnects? Also, the amps we are talking about, like the KGSSHV, usually only have XLR inputs. Even someone starting with no knowledge of balanced interconnects will realize that their RCA cables don't go into these jacks, and will look up what they are, and learn about balanced interconnects and their benefits that way. People aren't as dumb and helpless as you seem to think that they are. If they somehow miss all of that, they'll just create a new thread on some forum asking about the hum. In fact, they probably won't see an exchange on page 1580 of a Head-Fi thread about this issue, so this discussion isn't as helpful as you seem to think it is.

Then it goes down to Who does he or she believe, one said balanced cable helps the other Said it makes no difference. circle of confusion can’t you see?

 

[573531]

Almost as much confusion as untitled, quoting input power as some type of performance ranking. Right next to THD numbers.

 

[ESL-1]

Bawaasifiwe wrote:

and some people are happy with Apple ear buds.

Oops, messed up the above asking Bawaasifiwe about an earlier response to the effect of the Apple pods? Made no sense in reference to my statement which had to do with hum/no hum on my electrostatic amps.

I would appreciate a response so that I and the few people tied up with your responses which often like the one above make NO SENSE in reference to my post that you first responded to.

Tick, tock…

I look forward to the meaning of what you stated.

Thank you……?

 

[SolarCetacean]

Then it goes down to Who does he or she believe, one said balanced cable helps the other Said it makes no difference. circle of confusion can’t you see?

I pity the poor helpless soul who gets paralyzed in confusion by mundane things like that. A normal person capable of reasoning about such things would simply go with one (likely whichever is more convenient), and see if its claims hold true. Like, if a user has an SE DAC, is considering an amp with only XLR inputs, and sees different views on whether an adapter is OK, they'll just start with the adapter, and if there's a problem, then they'll conclude that a balanced interconnect is required and adjust their direction accordingly, either returning the amp or getting a balanced DAC. I don't think people are as easily confused as you think they are.

Personally, my opinion is that if someone can be that confused over differing experiences with balanced input, I can't fathom how they can function in real life. Life is full of people with different opinions, often based on their own experiences. If you see one positive and one negative review of a restaurant, are you confused on whether it's a good restaurant? A normal person would just try out the restaurant and see if it's good for themselves, and then update their viewpoint accordingly.

 

[alota]

Had we not have gone through this discussion how would have somebody for example who read this and tried single ended and had some unsatisfying noise performance (or someone who just wants to be sure that they have the lowest pitch black background noise regardless of audiblity to the particular individual or not) have known that it can be easily fixed with a balanced chain, if misinforming people kept saying there’s no difference?

there are cases where the balanced connection does not help you against ground loops or problems coming from the mains.

 

[573531]

there are cases where the balanced connection does not help you against ground loops or problems coming from the mains.

It’s not Jesus in the cable

 

[paradoxper]

Recall that Stax-style electrostatic headphones are inherently balanced; the diaphragm is driven by two stators on opposite sides of it - one stator has the normal signal and the other has the inverted signal to drive the diaphragm in a push-pull fashion. All Stax amps are internally balanced differential by necessity. The input signal has to be converted to a balanced signal regardless of input type. Thus, there's no real performance to be gained from balanced transmission. Sure, true balanced means noise rejection and a doubling of input voltage, but the amp itself doesn't really care about those things. It's not like some amps which are balanced separate and a single-ended input means half of the amp isn't doing work.

Oh man, you try.

Thanks for the hostilities.

Bwanaman is a hack.

 

[alota]

It’s not Jesus in the cable

Really?

 

[ESL-1]

How can you know if noise will or won’t be a problem for the one who asked the question?

Do you even know why balanced cables were invented and for what purpose?

Clue: it had nothing to do with audiophiles, there was a specific problem that needed a cure.

Please none of your Mumbo Jumbo nonsensical replies.

Maybe if you get it wrong you keep from posting anything for at least a week or a month.

We could also all decide to stop trying to help someone who really isn’t looking for any help, just hubris.

A wall of silence sounds appropriate

 

[ESL-1]

Oh man, you try.

Thanks for the hostilities.

Bwanaman is a hack.

All indications point in that direction. Hard to follow or even care what he is babbling about. Thanks for the concise wrap up.

 

[ESL-1]

Yeah, that’s ok, some people are also totally satisfied with apple earbuds.

Still waiting for your explanation of the above response to a post I sent with additional info. You responded with the nonsensical statement above that is not pertinent or is just plain insulting on your part.

 

[aokman]

Yeah, that’s ok, some people are also totally satisfied with apple earbuds.

Airpods Pro 2 are actually really good, they have an airyness that remind me of estats sometimes… colour me surprised