The Stax Thread III

[AudioThief]

007 (early serial MK1 here) is absolutely worth the money. I think I paid $1400 for mine? I can't think of a single headphone that's better for the money. It's quite a bit different than the average Stax headphone, definitely fine if it isn't someone's cup of tea (as with any headphone imo). Also, it IS really hard to drive and DOES need a sufficient amp (I don't know why this has to be such a recurring conversation when it's just a fact lol).. and the 009 is also just better, in almost every regard.

All of these things can be true lol

Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".

 

[elton7033]

Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".

A light bub and the sun both shines, but depends on what the user are looking for one may appeal to certain group more. I guess no one is auguring that the 727 is a bad amp, but the T8000/WES/KGST/KGSS/KGSShv/BHSE/Carbon/T2 are just simply better. And there's no definite correct answer for hobby. At least for me if I am paying 10 of thousand on a hobby I better count all possible factor to get everything right, but again is just me.

This apply to other hobby like watches as well, some may prefer a looking at time on a iPhone, some may ware G-Shock and I like my Patek 2499, they might say that the time on iPhone are more accurate but as long as I am happy that's satisfaction.

 

[118900]

Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".

Who developed the T2 originally and why?

how much more (actually less) does a DIY KGSSHV cost against the current crop of Stax amplifiers?

When I went to the Stax “mafia” for advice on how to power my 007s I was told by spritzer himself that a modified 717 for considerably less than $2K (including import tax) was “plenty good enough”. He never pressured me into spending more and he never wrote anything that made me feel what I purchased wasn’t up to the job, but he was clear in saying that even the best of the original crop of Stax amps aren’t really up to the job unless they are modified, which is why he modifies them.

which brings me right back to my first question, if that wasn’t the case why did Stax develop something as “different” as the T2 in the first place?

 

[astromaddie]

Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".

I think the issue I have is that relativity is entirely lost from these secondhand (and often thirdhand) experiences. I've been happily using my 007A on an unmodified T1S, and even, believe it or not, my D10. Even with the D10, I don't go above half volume, and even on that system, I readily prefer it to my old L700. Before my purchase, I had tested the 007A at the store with both a T8000 and a 700T, and with those, the 007A certainly had more power, but it wasn't night and day. It was appreciable, to be sure, with improvements like you said, but still had the same overall sound signature.

I have a manual lever espresso machine at home that I use fresh coffee with. I use different single origins and blends. I find the difference between the beans to be very large. I find the difference between 3-day-old and 7-day-old beans to be even larger. Most people, even coffee drinkers, would probably find the differences largely lost on them, but if they spent their time reading about my experience and opinions online, they'd feel they should throw out any beans on their shelf over 7 days old.

QUICK EDIT: (and caveat emptor) I am going to be modding a CCS load circuit onto my T1S as soon as the PCB arrives.

 

[playmusic]

I like my Patek 2499

Good choice.
From which series is it and what is the material (yellow gold, rose gold, platinum)?

 

[pspentax]

Today is music time.
Let’s compare the 007mk2 and 009S.
Esoteric player/Nagra DAC/T8000 amp

 

[AnakChan]

Who developed the T2 originally and why?

how much more (actually less) does a DIY KGSSHV cost against the current crop of Stax amplifiers?

When I went to the Stax “mafia” for advice on how to power my 007s I was told by spritzer himself that a modified 717 for considerably less than $2K (including import tax) was “plenty good enough”. He never pressured me into spending more and he never wrote anything that made me feel what I purchased wasn’t up to the job, but he was clear in saying that even the best of the original crop of Stax amps aren’t really up to the job unless they are modified, which is why he modifies them.

which brings me right back to my first question, if that wasn’t the case why did Stax develop something as “different” as the T2 in the first place?

Just as a reminder, the T2 was originally paired with the SR-Ω headphones. Someone with better memory can remember if the SR-007 (Mk1) came out together with the SRM-717 or some other amp?

 

[118900]

Just as a reminder, the T2 was originally paired with the SR-Ω headphones. Someone with better memory can remember if the SR-007 (Mk1) came out together with the SRM-717 or some other amp?

Yes it was. And then they started to develop the mk2 to resolve the various issues the original one had (heating etc) and then they went bust.

At the end of the day we can all have our opinions about the 007s and as long as it’s a properly informed opinion or properly executed listening test I absolutely respect that.

many people have heard very well amped 007s vs 009s (in all their guises) and have chosen one above the other and totally fair dues with those choices, utter respect.

But to deny that even Stax themselves realised the difficulties driving the original omegas (inherited by their descendants) and that trying to resolve the issue was not viable (hence the fact that something like the T2 was never again attempted) is simply denying reality, as is suggesting that with the 007s in particular, the choice of the amplifier is of little consequence.

(not saying that is what you are implying, but it seems to be a common theme here recently)

 

[AnakChan]

Yes it was. And then they started to develop the mk2 to resolve the various issues the original one had (heating etc) and then they went bust.

At the end of the day we can all have our opinions about the 007s and as long as it’s a properly informed opinion or properly executed listening test I absolutely respect that.

many people have heard very well amped 007s vs 009s (in all their guises) and have chosen one above the other and totally fair dues with those choices, utter respect.

But to deny that even Stax themselves realised the difficulties driving the original omegas (inherited by their descendants) and that trying to resolve the issue was not viable (hence the fact that something like the T2 was never again attempted) is simply denying reality, as is suggesting that with the 007s in particular, the choice of the amplifier is of little consequence.

(not saying that is what you are implying, but it seems to be a common theme here recently)

I started with my SR-009 and SRM-727A back in 2013 and was satisfied with them, however I would have to say that I truly enjoyed the SR-009 when I moved to the Electra - of which I still enjoy. The SRM-727A didn't match with my SR-007Mk1s well but the Electra worked better with them. Now I should state that when I "truly enjoyed" it was a comparison between the Electra and the SRM-727A.

I also did get a chance to listen to a Cavalli Liquid Lightning, @arnaud's BHSE and his suite of valve tubes, and with @Donnyhifi's KGSS (KGST? KGSS HV? I can't remember) and admittedly the BHSE bested my Electra, but wasn't enough to warrant another amp upgrade. Instead I bought all the parts for a DIY T2 which I've yet to build.

So at least to my ears, the likes of the Electra, BHSE, KGSS/T/Carbon (and even the SRM-T8000) are marked revolutionary step above the SRM-727A, however between the 3rd party Stax amps, they're more "evolutionary" in a sense that their improvements over each other are more graduated.

 

[paradoxper]

I started with my SR-009 and SRM-727A back in 2013 and was satisfied with them, however I would have to say that I truly enjoyed the SR-009 when I moved to the Electra - of which I still enjoy. The SRM-727A didn't match with my SR-007Mk1s well but the Electra worked better with them. Now I should state that when I "truly enjoyed" it was a comparison between the Electra and the SRM-727A.

I also did get a chance to listen to a Cavalli Liquid Lightning, @arnaud's BHSE and his suite of valve tubes, and with @Donnyhifi's KGSS (KGST? KGSS HV? I can't remember) and admittedly the BHSE bested my Electra, but wasn't enough to warrant another amp upgrade. Instead I bought all the parts for a DIY T2 which I've yet to build.

So at least to my ears, the likes of the Electra, BHSE, KGSS/T/Carbon (and even the SRM-T8000) are marked revolutionary step above the SRM-727A, however between the 3rd party Stax amps, they're more "evolutionary" in a sense that their improvements over each other are more graduated.

Did you get the chassis for a T2? If not, there's your motivation to get the build started and finished!

 

[AnakChan]

Did you get the chassis for a T2? If not, there's your motivation to get the build started and finished!

I do . In fact I'm embarrassed to say that I have almost all the parts (esp the critical sand that's hard to find and I bought in 2x to 4x spares, even the RK50) but I'm not gutsy enough to start the soldering. @arnaud has been on my back for years, literally, to start the build.

 

[paradoxper]

I do . In fact I'm embarrassed to say that I have almost all the parts (esp the critical sand that's hard to find and I bought in 2x to 4x spares, even the RK50) but I'm not gutsy enough to start the soldering. @arnaud has been on my back for years, literally, to start the build.

Oh, shame on you!

For the zealotry, without a T2, you are truly missing out.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Nobody disagrees that the 007 needs power. The difference is that some people think it needs a 727 to power it sufficiently, while others believe you need a carbon/bhse or even a T2 DIY. It boils down to if you believe in physics, facts and science or the subjective opinion of the stax mafia. I know which I'm putting my money on. But anyone is free to do what they like with their money. Obviously subjective opinion will always be a major factor in deciding on gear - it is, even for me. But when it comes to magic amplifiers can do.. That's where I draw the line personally, and when it comes to the $$$ needed for the Carbon compared to the 727, I feel strongly that "this side" should be represented too, not just the standard "you need a Carbon to REALLY make em shine".

Certainly, I'm sure they can be enjoyable from any amp that can properly power them--I think people's* suggestions go beyond power and span into the quality, design and signature of the amp. I have not heard the 727, so I have no dog in this fight. It's just that nobody questions how dynamic headphones scale with TOTL amps, it's essentially accepted as fact. So it's just so odd to me how often it is with the 007/009.

I think many people have the perspective that if you're going to spend the $$$ for TOTL headphones, you're going to want the best amp possible (within your price range) that can get the most out of them, which I agree with. But ultimately, it's subjective and only directly comparing with your own ears matter.

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

If this is a matter of pure power and control then maybe we should all just get ourselves transformer boxes with fat speaker amps. Depending on the speaker amp chosen this path can have extremely clean sounding results with more weight and authority in the low end than any of us will ever need. The price to performance ratio of these sorts of setups is always impressive. (Assuming that you get one of the better designed transformer units.)

 

[6PANDEMONIUM6]

I know that Mjolnir Audio and Audiovalve make nice ones. It's also possible to get a used, pro-bias, Stax unit if you look hard enough.