Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? You said that an HD650 can't render an electric guitar properly. I countered by saying that a Grado can't render a violin properly.
A lot of this seems to depend on what kind of music one listens to. A lot of the music I listen to contains unamplified acoustic instruments, especially string instruments, and I find that a Senn gives a much more faithful reproduction of these. I only have one album on my whole hard drive that contains electric guitars...
But I never once mentioned anything about a violin...
My point was about electric guitars. So either you're agreeing, disagreeing or dodging the point. Sounds like the latter.
No, I just think you're not understanding what I'm getting at. (Which was that while there are certain things a Grado might be good at, there are also things that a Sennheiser will trounce them at as well.)
But whatever. For the record, I didn't even disagree with your comment. The Jets'N'Guns album doesn't sound quite as lively on my Senns as it did with my SR-60s. But the tradeoff was worth it, because that is the only rock album is own.
Originally Posted by J-Pak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Notice how I didn't even mention the AKG's in my post, and that I don't own an RS-1 (and I didn't mention anything about the HD650 details
. Impact and detail are seperate from capturing the true nature of an instrument)? It's my opinion that only the Grados can truely capture electric guitar. I'm not deluding myself into thinking there is a perfect headphone. Who knows maybe I'm just picky because I've heard a lot of gear?
I was just getting back to our previous post about the 650's PRAT. Well maybe I am just being a HD650 fanboy, since I do find it to be a great headphone at all genres on my gear. It could be that I'm not as much a perfectionist: realizing that this is just a headphone and can not be the same thing as a real performance. IMO, I'm now at a point where I like my headphone to be reference enough to be good at every instrument: not try to have 30 different headphones for every single instrument. As for impact: this gets to be highly subjective. My belief is that my SP amp is providing impact much in the same way a tube amp would for an electric guitar. Whatever is happening, to my ears/setup the 650s have impact for rock.
I still like Grados for getting simblance in a electric guitar: and specifically for guitar, this gets to be all about preference. To me, the 650s seem well refined and can cary enough detail, but retain body. Listening to a guitar on a Grado, I may get more front end bite....but no decay. This was very extreme before my final setup. Now on my current setup, the differences between my HD650 and SR325i are a lot less. I prefer the 325 of the Grados I've listened to just because of the simblance. Now there's just a subtle difference in detail with the 325i and HD650 on my setup. That extra detail in the 325i helps with some hard rock that isn't mastered well.
if anyone says it isn't, then he tries to prove that you are hearing wrong.
Well, I never! I certainly do not! Of course, I will defend my favorite phones, but I have no problem admitting that other people simply won't like them. I even admitted that the particular equalization used for the HD650 might not work with everybody's ears...
Quote:
Everything is bad about Grados
There's nothing "bad" about Grados. I loved my SR-60s for a long time, and the HF-1 was one best headphones present at the Atlanta meet. (IMO)
Your point was "The HD650 can't capture the crunch and distortion of a wonderful EL34 tubed guitar amp."
A point that I never disagreed with in the first place. Furthermore, I never claimed that the HD650 was "perfect". (Perhaps, perfect for me, certainly not in any objective sense.)
Speaking of upper midrange recession, (not that there is one
) seeing as this is a circumaural headphone, and the drivers are relatively far from the ear, this very area will actually be boosted and amplified by your outer ear. I am curious as to what the HeadRoom graph would look like without the dummy head's HRTF data subtracted from it.
Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif everything is perfect about the HD650 - if anyone says it isn't, then he tries to prove that you are hearing wrong.
Everything is bad about Grados - he argues they never do anything right and Senns always do everything better.
Well being a Senn teammate, Grados are my backup can, but I always feel compelled to defend the Senns when you put them down robm321
Contrary to your previous assertions that only mp3 lovin listeners can enjoy the 650 because it's so muddy that it hides detail: I can hear all the mastering mistakes on my CDs. I try to get SACD whenever I can....since I can hear the extra resolution with the 650s. So it must be my ears and setup, since you disagree. But maybe we can talk more about our common tastes: classical guitar
I'm going to be getting that TT sometime this week!!
We all seem to be doing a lot of teaming up whenever there's a flame war
No one needs to defend their buying decision or preference whether it's a sennheiser, grado, akg, etymotic, shure.... ok maybe bose, but nothing else.
Let's just enjoy the fact that there are so many wonderful cans, each with their own unique character. What would life be like if they all sounded the same?
Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well being a Senn teammate, Grados are my backup can, but I always feel compelled to defend the Senns when you put them down robm321
Contrary to your previous assertions that only mp3 lovin listeners can enjoy the 650 because it's so muddy that it hides detail: I can hear all the mastering mistakes on my CDs. I try to get SACD whenever I can....since I can hear the extra resolution with the 650s. So it must be my ears and setup, since you disagree. But maybe we can talk more about our common tastes: classical guitar
I'm going to be getting that TT sometime this week!!
We all seem to be doing a lot of teaming up whenever there's a flame war
Well, considering that I own AKG K701, K-1000s, and Senn HD600, and Grados - I don't have a team. I'm more like an island. So, that allows me state the positive and NEGATIVE characteristics of each. That's more useful than always defending. What are you defending against? Some like them - some don't, wouldn't letting headfiers with contrasting opinions speak their opinion without constant rebuttal be more fun?
Anyway, let us know how much more you like your TT than your CD player. I know you will like it better. Vinyl is KING!!
Most of the members who complain about a “Sennheiser veil”, have ignored the advice to amp the Senn 580/600/650’s properly. They somehow feel despite everyone else’s advice and experience that the laws of physics don’t apply to them. So they buy one of these headphones, and then wonder why when they run them from there Ipod, soundcard, or other lack lusters source device they have reduced sound quality.
Originally Posted by nightfire /img/forum/go_quote.gif No one needs to defend their buying decision or preference whether it's a sennheiser, grado, akg, etymotic, shure.... ok maybe bose, but nothing else.
hey, I enjoy Bose Triports.....they're comfortable and have great bass impact
LOL
(just joking.....never owned them of course
)
once again, wise words nightfire....thanks!
*edit* Quote:
I'm more like an island. So, that allows me state the positive and NEGATIVE characteristics of each. That's more useful than always defending. What are you defending against? Some like them - some don't, wouldn't letting headfiers with contrasting opinions speak their opinion without constant rebuttal be more fun?
Well I mainly only do the constant rebuttal when those that don't like the HD650 say it's so muddy that it covers up detail. Now mabye I have too sensitive a skin, and I try to be a bit more considerate to the AKG fans in that I just state what I don't like about them. Not try to catagorize them the way I've heard various AKG users say about Senn users: specifically that we're bassheads who only like club music, and don't know a well mastered CD because for some reason the HD650 would mask that.
But, I'll try to learn to lighten up. If Hifithen does it first
Never really experinced any veil when I had the HD650 or HD555. They might not be as bright and detailed as say the W5000 or SA5000, but I wouldn't say they're veiled.
Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, he's just doing what he always does along with his Senn teammate:
everything is perfect about the HD650 - if anyone says it isn't, then he tries to prove that you are hearing wrong.
Everything is bad about Grados - he argues they never do anything right and Senns always do everything better.
Repeat A and B over and over
(lighten up...just having a little fun...)
Sad to say but I almost miss Andrea.
Andrea was the best HD650 fangirl Headfi has ever seen. I loved those one word arguments "yes" "no" "xenos"
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your point was "The HD650 can't capture the crunch and distortion of a wonderful EL34 tubed guitar amp."
A point that I never disagreed with in the first place. Furthermore, I never claimed that the HD650 was "perfect". (Perhaps, perfect for me, certainly not in any objective sense.)
Speaking of upper midrange recession, (not that there is one
) seeing as this is a circumaural headphone, and the drivers are relatively far from the ear, this very area will actually be boosted and amplified by your outer ear. I am curious as to what the HeadRoom graph would look like without the dummy head's HRTF data subtracted from it.
The Headroom graphs which you rely on so much say otherwise about the recesion.
For my reference I use-
Bass: 20-400
Midrange: 400-5200
Treble: 5200-20000
I'll leave you to link to the graph, but I do see a -10 db dip in there. Which you refer to as DFE.
Also Davesrose whats the point of being on a team or "teamate"?
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