[n_maher]

 

[aphex944]

To me, the Sennheiser veil is an easily recognizable characteristic that is present in all of the models I've listened to extensively-- HD 595, 580, 600, 650. It is a perceived lack of musical information in the upper midrange to lower high end. It's different from them just simply being "rolled off." You just don't get the sensation that you're getting all of the music.

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif

LOL! So, how's that B22 working out for beating this dead horse, Nate?

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Simply a made up term, defended against by made up terms such as 'Warm Soundstage" which casts a better light on the relative presentation of the 650s to all other manufacturers referance quality headphones. However appropo the blanket terms used, it is apparent by listening and ownership as I have. I prefer clarity and detail being closer to the musical event, rather than a warm soundstage percieved from a distance where gentlemen in the audience nod off durring the concert. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;-}

You mean you prefer getting neutrality with a bright sounding headphone, paired with a warm sounding amp Hi-Finthen ;-} Contrary to your previous assertions, I don't use the HD650 for club music: Beyers would be much better for that! At least the Marriner Mozart symphonies I'm listening to right now are as detailed as a real life symphony to me: but I guess you need something with hyper detail so that you don't nod off to your own music ;-}

RE: the dead horse: well looks like we're going to gear up for another Sennheiser vs AKG/Beyer war: Sharpening my arrows

 

[Teerawit]

Imagine a curtain between you and the music -- that's kinda what the veil is like. With good amplification this usually isn't a problem.

 

[SickMouthy]

All I know is that I much prefer the K601s to the HD595s.

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL! So, how's that B22 working out for beating this dead horse, Nate?

β22 = no veil

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif β22 = no veil

You know, I hear balanced operation removes even more veil

 

[n_maher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit /img/forum/go_quote.gif You know, I hear balanced operation removes even more veil

I'll let you know when the HR Balanced Desktop arrives...

 

[robm321]

Veil is always yearning to get closer to the music but not being able to quite get there leaving me unfulfilled.

Recabling, balanced amping, nothing has been able to make them sound involving enough for me - some get satisfaction out of them... unfortunately I just can't... maybe I'll try again for the 100th time. I really want to enjoy them but...

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif As for what the "veil" actually is, it is simply..way of describing..a lack of treble energy, as if the sound is coming from behind a curtain/outside the studio/shrouded in fog/or whatever...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...flat, lifeless and (well) veiled...

Those are pretty good descriptions of the veil to me...

You really have to hear them for yourself and decide:

1. If you hear a veil.
2. If you like them whether or not you hear it.

I will say that the Grados easily do rock better if you like a forward, exciting sound. I'm not a frequent classical listener, but many people enjoy the Senns more for more laid back, complex music such as that.

I don't think the Grado or Senn is completely accurate...the Grado is clearly tipped for more treble energy and excitement and Senn clearly admits changing the sound of the HD-650 to be more pleasing to a mass audience (I believe in their manuals).

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by robm321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Veil is always yearning to get closer to the music but not being able to quite get there leaving me unfulfilled. Recabling, balanced amping, nothing has been able to make them sound involving enough for me - some get satisfaction out of them... unfortunately I just can't... maybe I'll try again for the 100th time. I really want to enjoy them but...

I suggest just listening to music....with whatever headphones float your boat

Well at least to my ears, my HD650s on my setup are the most natural sounding headphones I've listened to. Other people have similar experiences with AKGs or Beyers.....maybe we should leave it at that and just talk more about music! I'm listening to Marriner right now, and it sounds like the symphony is all around me. Mozart has never sounded so great. Think after this CD, I'll put in Beck: love how my 650s are zinging for all my genres.

 

[jjhatfield]

Another vote for having never really heard a "veil" in any of my Sennheisers. If I had ever heard a "veil" on Sennheisers, I seriously doubt I would have continued to listen to them, much less build an entire system around them.

My advice is if you listen to Sennheisers and hear a "veil", don't try to remedy the veil with new sources, amplifiers, and $250 cables. Just sell them and try out another headphone.

 

[Teerawit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will say that the Grados easily do rock better if you like a forward, exciting sound. I'm not a frequent classical listener, but many people enjoy the Senns more for more laid back, complex music such as that.

That's the thing...whereas I do appreciate the Grado sound, the timbre of the instruments sounds more "right" to me on Sennheiser headphones, especially on more acoustic work.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teerawit /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's the thing...whereas I do appreciate the Grado sound, the timbre of the instruments sounds more "right" to me on Sennheiser headphones, especially on more acoustic work.

x2 on timbre: haven't heard a better headphone for capturing the body of a solo accoustic instrument. I've found once you get high end with equipment, you can enhance a headphone's sound to improve whatever weakness you find in it. The unfortunate thing is that it also means less synergy with other headphones. Grados are my fall back headphone for recordings that are compressed, but Sennheisers can really get slammin with my rock now.