The Sennheiser "veil"
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alitomr

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Could you please define the "veil"??? I have been reading a lot here n the forums and the term keeps appearing and I dont know what it means. I have a pair of HD555s that I simply love.

I like them so much that I keep asking myself how would be a pair of HD595 or even the HD600.

I want to know what the friggin "veil" is!!! PLease?
 
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PiccoloNamek

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"Veil" is something somebody made up one day when they were dissatisfied with a Sennheiser can, and for some reason, everybody else accepted it as true, including people who had never even heard a Sennheiser headphone before. At least, that's how it seems, because I have never heard a veil on my HD650s or on the HD600s I tried at the Atlanta meet. (Or on the 595s, for that matter.) As for what the "veil" actually is, it is simply their [people who don't like Senn cans] way of describing what they perceive as a lack of treble energy, as if the sound is coming from behind a curtain/outside the studio/shrouded in fog/or whatever terminology they prefer to use.

The only time they [the HD650s] ever seemed remotely dark or veiled was when I compard them directly to my old SR-60s. But that's just a temporary perceptual effect, one that also works in reverse; my SR-60s seemed unnaturally bright compared to the Senns, even though they really weren't. In the end, I sold my SR-60s, and haven't regretted it one bit.
 
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Uncle Erik

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I think it's because Sennheisers are not as bright and forward as a lot of headphones are. They sound flat, lifeless and (well) veiled after a good listen to something like the RS-1 or DT880. I deeply loved the HD-650 when I first had it, but I've since been swept away by the Grado sound and have come to love the Beyerdynamic and AKG house sounds, too.
 
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Carl

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My controversial view is that the housing structure is somehow suppressing/absorbing the dynamic snap of the music, as the HE60 exhibits it too to an extent, and that is far from a dark, layed back headphone.
 
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Emon

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif
"Veil" is something somebody made up one day when they were dissatisfied with a Sennheiser can, and for some reason, everybody else accepted it as true, including people who had never even heard a Sennheiser headphone before.


Ding ding ding! We have a winner, folks!

Sennheiser has never designed their headphones with total accuracy in mind. Their high-end headphones have rolled-off highs by design. A lot of people claim that removing or cutting a hole in the protective foam cover on the drive removes this "veil," a claim that I find suspect. It may be true if they chose a cover material specifically to dampen high frequencies to their liking. However, it seems all too convenient that, often, those who dislike the veil find and improvement when the cover is removed, and those who like it find no difference.
 
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greggf

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"Veil" is a derogatory term used by masochists who think that painfully bright and crude headphones bring pleasure. It's used in describing the genuinely comfortable presentation of Sennheiser headphones. Envy of those who enjoy music and hence life usually brings about use of the "V" word.

All of the above is tongue-in-cheek. Uh . . . mainly.
 
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achristilaw

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For twenty years(actually a bit more). I had forsaked Headphones. Preferring the Two Loudspeaker/channel alternative. A few years back. A buddy had a dedicated Headphone amp. It was the original Headroom MAX. Feeding a Sennheiser Phone. The HD580. "Wonderful, coherent and balanced" I thought. Presently, I own the HD 600. My opinion hasn't changed.
No veiling here. The highs are there. Without congestion or stridency.
Promotes long term listening. Without the fatigue.
 
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erlik

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I have a PX100 and a 212 pro and all I can find when comparing them to cans from other brands is that with the senns I have the feeling that the band is some distance away, while with other brands (most notably my Philips) I have more a feeling that the singer is just in front of me. Now that's not always a bad thing, and I find that speaking of veil is a bit of an exageration.
I find the senns are quite good for a more relaxed and confortable listen. the Philips are better for critical listening but are nowhere as confortable as the senns. I guess that's why I had to buy all those headphones
 
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Now that I've got my HD580's, my SR325's don't get used much anymore -- I won't even use the "V"-word here, since there is none on my 580.

HD580 -- more bass and more relaxing sound for longer listening -- and much more comfortable, to boot.


I use other cans for variety, when in the mood.
And, NONE have the dreaded "V"-word!
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by alitomr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Could you please define the "veil"??? I have been reading a lot here n the forums and the term keeps appearing and I dont know what it means. I have a pair of HD555s that I simply love.

I like them so much that I keep asking myself how would be a pair of HD595 or even the HD600.

I want to know what the friggin "veil" is!!! PLease?



It all depends on what you are expecting to hear in your music.
 
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KrooLism

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12 results for: veil

1.a piece of opaque or transparent material worn over the face for concealment, for protection from the elements, or to enhance the appearance.
2.a piece of material worn so as to fall over the head and shoulders on each side of the face, forming a part of the headdress of a nun.
3.the life of a nun, esp. a cloistered life.
4.something that covers, separates, screens, or conceals: a veil of smoke; the veil of death.
5.a mask, disguise, or pretense: to find fault under a veil of humor.
6.Botany, Anatomy, Zoology. a velum.
7.Mycology. a membrane that covers the immature mushroom of many fungi and breaks apart as the mushroom expands, leaving distinctive remnants on the cap, stalk, or stalk base.
8.Scot. and North England. a caul.
–verb (used with object)
9.to cover or conceal with or as with a veil: She veiled her face in black. A heavy fog veiled the shoreline.
10.to hide the real nature of; mask; disguise: to veil one's intentions.

–verb (used without object)
11.to don or wear a veil: In certain Islamic countries women must veil.
—Idiom
12.take the veil, to become a nun.
 
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Gradofan2

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It's where I go to ski.

But... actually... the only way you're going to know what the Senn "veil" is - is to try the HD650's compared to the RS-1's, or AD2000's.

Then you'll know.

I would say that with the right setup, cable, the foam removed, and burnt in - the HD600's (and I assume the HD580's with the 600 grills) sound virtually as bright, clear and dynamic as these other phones.
 
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Davesrose

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's where I go to ski.

But... actually... the only way you're going to know what the Senn "veil" is - is to try the HD650's compared to the RS-1's, or AD2000's.

Then you'll know.

I would say that with the right setup, cable, the foam removed, and burnt in - the HD600's (and I assume the HD580's with the 600 grills) sound virtually as bright, clear and dynamic as these other phones.



you know, I compared a SR325i and k501 when I still had my HD580 and 595 with stock cable and foam (no defoamer here). Still no veil here


Only headphone I've listened to that I could finally understand veil was the DT770/80: now that's a headphone with recessed mids. To my ears, Sennheisers have always been the most accurate: yes the treble is softer then a Grado, but in real life, bass is what reverberates. The HD650 also scales up extremely well (better then a lot of phones) and has left all my other headphones in the dust as far as extension and speed. Including any Grado I've tried.

*edit* and we know that the HD580/600/650s are unnaturally soft in the treble, because recording engineers use them
 
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Hi-Finthen

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Simply a made up term, defended against by made up terms such as 'Warm Soundstage" which casts a better light on the relative presentation of the 650s to all other manufacturers referance quality headphones. However appropo the blanket terms used, it is apparent by listening and ownership as I have. I prefer clarity and detail being closer to the musical event, rather than a warm soundstage percieved from a distance where gentlemen in the audience nod off durring the concert. Not that there's anything wrong with that ;-}
 
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