[Redcarmoose]

Hi guys,
I am looking for a comparison between Penon IEMs. Interested from best to worst: Bass texture and speed, mids quality, upper-mids smoothness.
How big is the price return for Penon IEMs? 10th is at least 50% better than FAN2 in sound quality, or should I expect the exact mids and bass quality but somewhat a different tuning?

Yep, I see that they have slight differences in tuning. I want to know how big is the difference in the sound quality between them in mids and the bass since both use the same driver configuration, except for ultra-high frequency? They definitely may be in the different Knowles and Sonion drivers. Penon did not specify which BA model was used.
While I still burn in my FAN 2, the bass quality is increasing. However, I'm somewhat disappointed in the mids quality.

I wouldn’t be so fast as to judge the Fan 2’s mids just yet. Meaning that is one IEM that took a little time as far as acclimation went....for me? But when the Fan 2 came together for me it was great!

Are you using the 1A with it only? The trick with the Fan 2 is it sits as the most neutral IEM Penon/ISN has ever made. That means that it can be swayed and take-on new traits easily. While technical and proficient at most files, the Fan 2 is totally susceptible to cable changes and ear-tips. In fact the Sony 1A is incredibly mid centric anyways. I am not familiar with the rest of your sources but the Fan 2 will go ahead and reveal the traits held with-in those different sources. The issue is the Sony WM1A is so Mid-forward and Mid-centric that I tended to like the 1Z better, also I changed to darker cables. Actually the mids can be over pushed with the Fan 2 especially with the Sony 1A and can sound almost thin due to too much mid-energy!

Are you maximizing your 1A with any aftermarket firmware like changing regions with the Rockbox region changer or using MrWalkman One to change tone and regions?

Of the 12 Penon/ISN IEMs I have, I relate with some better than others. And as it went I ended super surprised at how my opinions changed regardless of price or tone.

The list I have is....

ISN H50
ISN D10
ISN H40
ISN EST50
Penon Globe
Penon Vortex
Penon Serial
ISN H30
Penon Volt
Penon Fan
Penon Fan 2
Penon Orb

Now the thing is, just like everyone my relationship with these changed in relation to experiences that I had. The biggest change though happened due to new cables introduced. Meaning I got cables later that offered new vistas to introduce a new and different character which I related at times with more.

To generalize I know nothing about resale values, but I can tell you that often various models will garner hype which allows them to have a great resale. There have been times this year when you couldn’t get a pair of new Serials fast as they were almost sold out for a period with none offered on the used market. Also you will note the Classifieds are often missing ISN/Penon products.

Typically though right after a new model is introduced there will be one or two (for sale) because maybe a buyer discovered they were not for them. That is no diminishment on Penon/ISN quality except often people to a certain level are never happy and are moving from one IEM to another. A catch and release style of purchasing.

But ISN is more bass focused and Penon brand is more midrange focused. There is a common midrange character which permeates everything the company makes. Meaning even the Fan 1 and ISN D10 have (and romance) an unmistakable Penon midrange tone. My favorites are the Globe with the Penon OSG cable, the Serial with the Space cable and the ISN EST50 with the OSG cable and Penon Vocal cable. Then the Volt really takes the cake with the Totem cable. Strangely the H40 has a character way, way above the price asked, especially with the Vocal cable!

Anyways I could go on, but I hope I helped you so far? If you want to read more I have written 12 reviews which go into details about each model, though you can always PM me too, as in a few areas my opinion has changed slightly as I had more time to interface with the products. Though my reviews are 95% what I still think, it is just that cables will go ahead and alter the playback tone and can sway the personality to be even better at times. IMO

 

[Click]

^^^^^^^^^ If you use my pictures at least give me credit, or link to the review next time. Thank-you.


Amazingly regular DAPs are much larger than the PENON TAIL?


Bass was an unexpected arrival.


Probably the name asks for some style of ostentatious Bass playback? When so far it's vary clear and slightly warm. I need to spend a few days more as I have been listening to heavy bass IEMs and need to reacclimatize my listening standards. But so far the Bass Cable is wonderfully balanced and clear with a transparent personality and a clean low-end. I have had it less than a few hours, so what do I know?

With the Bass' sleeve being blue and orange, and releasing right after the 10th AE, I'm thinking Penon is hinting to 10th owners to pair them up.

Or Bass cable owners to pair it with 10th AE.

 

[Redcarmoose]

With the Bass' sleeve being blue and orange, and releasing right after the 10th AE, I'm thinking Penon is hinting to 10th owners to pair them up.

Or Bass cable owners to pair it with 10th AE.

Ya think!

 

[vandung2510]

+100

To me, a discernible improvement in one small area of sound quality can make the difference between a keeper and an iem that I would not even buy. Also, there are aspects that matter a lot to me that maybe aren’t a big deal to other people, for instance, coherency and timbre.

But anyway…

Bass texture: Vortex. 10th isn’t half bad either.

Bass speed: Impact, I guess. Or anything with BA bass. Though if you’re looking for raw speed, keep in mind that all Penon IEMs are tuned with a realistic amount of decay. I know of no Penon IEM that is unnaturally fast and they simply do not do sheer bass speed at the expense of timbre.

Mids: All Penon IEMs are to some extent tuned around the mids. Best mids go to the Volt (lushest and richest) and Impact (best layering).

At the other end, you have the relatively flatter or more neutral ones like Serial and then the Fan 2, which is not really flat by most other people’s standards but the “flattest” that Penon will go.

Upper mids smoothness: Most of the Penon IEMs are tuned to be quite unfatiguing in the upper mids/lower treble - think along the likes of Volt, Serial and Orb.



They can have the same or similar driver configuration yet be tuned very differently. You only have to refer to the part of this thread just before the 10th was released, when people were so sure that the 10th would have similar bass performance to the F2 because they use the same drivers - only for the 10th to turn out to be something of a sub bass monster.

Oh damn. For bass texture it's not the Serial??

 

[shez.]

+100

To me, a discernible improvement in one small area of sound quality can make the difference between a keeper and an iem that I would not even buy. Also, there are aspects that matter a lot to me that maybe aren’t a big deal to other people, for instance, coherency and timbre.

But anyway…

Bass texture: Vortex. 10th isn’t half bad either.

Bass speed: Impact, I guess. Or anything with BA bass. Though if you’re looking for raw speed, keep in mind that all Penon IEMs are tuned with a realistic amount of decay. I know of no Penon IEM that is unnaturally fast and they simply do not do sheer bass speed at the expense of timbre.

Mids: All Penon IEMs are to some extent tuned around the mids. Best mids go to the Volt (lushest and richest) and Impact (best layering).

At the other end, you have the relatively flatter or more neutral ones like Serial and then the Fan 2, which is not really flat by most other people’s standards but the “flattest” that Penon will go.

Upper mids smoothness: Most of the Penon IEMs are tuned to be quite unfatiguing in the upper mids/lower treble - think along the likes of Volt, Serial and Orb.



They can have the same or similar driver configuration yet be tuned very differently. You only have to refer to the part of this thread just before the 10th was released, when people were so sure that the 10th would have similar bass performance to the F2 because they use the same drivers - only for the 10th to turn out to be something of a sub bass monster.

Appreciate it such an answer. Now, I do have a better understanding of what to expect from other Penon IEMs.

I wouldn’t be so fast as to judge the Fan 2’s mids just yet. Meaning that is one IEM that took a little time as far as acclimation went....for me? But when the Fan 2 came together for me it was great!

No doubt FAN 2 is a fantastic IEM. However, with all respect, I think it's overhyped with its mids. Let me try to explain my experience.

Are you using the 1A with it only? The trick with the Fan 2 is it sits as the most neutral IEM Penon/ISN has ever made. That means that it can be swayed and take-on new traits easily. While technical and proficient at most files, the Fan 2 is totally susceptible to cable changes and ear-tips. In fact the Sony 1A is incredibly mid centric anyways. I am not familiar with the rest of your sources but the Fan 2 will go ahead and reveal the traits held with-in those different sources. The issue is the Sony WM1A is so Mid-forward and Mid-centric that I tended to like the 1Z better, also I changed to darker cables. Actually the mids can be over pushed with the Fan 2 especially with the Sony 1A and can sound almost thin due to too much mid-energy!

I'm currently using WM1A, iFi Go Bar, Luxury & Precision W2, VE Abigail, and Macbook Air M1 as a source. I know that 1A, by its stock firmware, has forward upper mids.

Are you maximizing your 1A with any aftermarket firmware like changing regions with the Rockbox region changer or using MrWalkman One to change tone and regions?

Of course. I'm using Mr.Walkman firmware, with W1Z tuning, P3 region, and DSEE HX set to DSEE AI.

Now the thing is, just like everyone my relationship with these changed in relation to experiences that I had. The biggest change though happened due to new cables introduced. Meaning I got cables later that offered new vistas to introduce a new and different character which I related at times with more.

I tried different DIY cables with FAN 2; most make the upper mids sound lusher. However, I like to use the stock cables since the overall tonal balance is usually always better with the stock cables, even if the quality is not.

Mids in FAN 2 is quite analytical—typical BA timbre-like. I'm not getting the emotions from the vocal I like. The male and female vocals don't have enough texture, and it sounds like the singer doesn't have enough room to breathe. The low and high pitch of vocal sounds in equal volume sounds unnatural. I believe it's because its mids are too flat, and such tuning needs a better driver configuration or quality one. In my opinion, the tuning is over-mature for such implementation.

My comparison with UERR was wrong. After more than five years of usage, I decided to clean the UERR bass and mids tube bores for the first time. They are not as tiny as on the UE900s bass tube, so I thought they could not be closed after time. I was wrong. After cleaning them up, despite its analytical mids, UERR is on another level and mids that can make you cry. So I decided to compare the FAN 2 to the UE900s. So far, not only are upper-mids lusher, but the vocals sound more emotional on UE900s. Of course, FAN 2 beats UE900s in any other aspects, especially on the soundstage.

Here is one track for example:

Trent Reznor's vocal sounds from FAN 2 as if you are listening to it thru a voicemail machine on mono. You hear each breath, but it is flat, like in 2D space, and doesn't have depth.

 

[dharmasteve]

Appreciate it such an answer. Now, I do have a better understanding of what to expect from other Penon IEMs.


No doubt FAN 2 is a fantastic IEM. However, with all respect, I think it's overhyped with its mids. Let me try to explain my experience.


I'm currently using WM1A, iFi Go Bar, Luxury & Precision W2, VE Abigail, and Macbook Air M1 as a source. I know that 1A, by its stock firmware, has forward upper mids.


Of course. I'm using Mr.Walkman firmware, with W1Z tuning, P3 region, and DSEE HX set to DSEE AI.


I tried different DIY cables with FAN 2; most make the upper mids sound lusher. However, I like to use the stock cables since the overall tonal balance is usually always better with the stock cables, even if the quality is not.

Mids in FAN 2 is quite analytical—typical BA timbre-like. I'm not getting the emotions from the vocal I like. The male and female vocals don't have enough texture, and it sounds like the singer doesn't have enough room to breathe. The low and high pitch of vocal sounds in equal volume sounds unnatural. I believe it's because its mids are too flat, and such tuning needs a better driver configuration or quality one. In my opinion, the tuning is over-mature for such implementation.

My comparison with UERR was wrong. After more than five years of usage, I decided to clean the UERR bass and mids tube bores for the first time. They are not as tiny as on the UE900s bass tube, so I thought they could not be closed after time. I was wrong. After cleaning them up, despite its analytical mids, UERR is on another level and mids that can make you cry. So I decided to compare the FAN 2 to the UE900s. So far, not only are upper-mids lusher, but the vocals sound more emotional on UE900s. Of course, FAN 2 beats UE900s in any other aspects, especially on the soundstage.



Here is one track for example:

Trent Reznor's vocal sounds from FAN 2 as if you are listening to it thru a voicemail machine on mono. You hear each breath, but it is flat, like in 2D space, and doesn't have depth.

I hear the Fan 2 very different to you. We all hear through a subjective mist only confirmed by the majority view. Nothing inherent in an IEM. Of course there is unit variability. I the Fan 2 mids and the bass has opened over time. That's my subjective impression.....not objective. I only wish I had the dosh to buy the Penon 10th Anniversary, which is the natural follow on to the Fan 2.....as it seems to be universally appreciated.

 

[Redcarmoose]

How many hours of burn-in do you have on your Fan 2? I say this as mine really changed. Vocal timbre is very individualistic in perception, though on some IEMs they can be without fullness, heck even the IER-Z1R is not the greatest for vocals, but the Fan 2 should be better? Penon never leaves out that magical midrange quality that push vocals to a point? Over matured tuning for the hardware? Hmm? I’ve never heard a Penon IEM criticized as such, but perception is a fickle thing. I would say keep looking and move on if you have really thought that you have exhausted the tip choice, have enough hours on it and used the right source. The Fan 2 needs 160 hours of burn, at least that was my experience? I personally think you need a darker source, as the Fan 2 is simply revealing what you give it, and the Sony 1A is not the ticket. IMO The Fan 2 worked best with my TA desktop and the 1Z? It’s incredibly transparent.

Appreciate it such an answer. Now, I do have a better understanding of what to expect from other Penon IEMs.


No doubt FAN 2 is a fantastic IEM. However, with all respect, I think it's overhyped with its mids. Let me try to explain my experience.


I'm currently using WM1A, iFi Go Bar, Luxury & Precision W2, VE Abigail, and Macbook Air M1 as a source. I know that 1A, by its stock firmware, has forward upper mids.


Of course. I'm using Mr.Walkman firmware, with W1Z tuning, P3 region, and DSEE HX set to DSEE AI.


I tried different DIY cables with FAN 2; most make the upper mids sound lusher. However, I like to use the stock cables since the overall tonal balance is usually always better with the stock cables, even if the quality is not.

Mids in FAN 2 is quite analytical—typical BA timbre-like. I'm not getting the emotions from the vocal I like. The male and female vocals don't have enough texture, and it sounds like the singer doesn't have enough room to breathe. The low and high pitch of vocal sounds in equal volume sounds unnatural. I believe it's because its mids are too flat, and such tuning needs a better driver configuration or quality one. In my opinion, the tuning is over-mature for such implementation.

My comparison with UERR was wrong. After more than five years of usage, I decided to clean the UERR bass and mids tube bores for the first time. They are not as tiny as on the UE900s bass tube, so I thought they could not be closed after time. I was wrong. After cleaning them up, despite its analytical mids, UERR is on another level and mids that can make you cry. So I decided to compare the FAN 2 to the UE900s. So far, not only are upper-mids lusher, but the vocals sound more emotional on UE900s. Of course, FAN 2 beats UE900s in any other aspects, especially on the soundstage.



Here is one track for example:

Trent Reznor's vocal sounds from FAN 2 as if you are listening to it thru a voicemail machine on mono. You hear each breath, but it is flat, like in 2D space, and doesn't have depth.

 

[shez.]

How many hours of burn-in do you have on your Fan 2?

~around 50 hours.

The Fan 2 needs 160 hours of burn, at least that was my experience?

and used the right source.

Is the Penon Tail a good synergy source for Fan 2? Mine should arrive soon.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The 50 hours is a big part of your issue. The flatness you speak of will change and fill-out. Still maybe I’m different, but I needed a super warm cable and source, then the Fan 2 came alive for me. I haven’t tried the Tail with the Fan 2 and am not able to at the moment.

Strangely the Fan 2 will become more V shaped, not V shaped but slightly in that direction with hours of play. Also the midrange will fill out and open-up, definitely the vocals will change, as you haven’t really heard the Fan 2 yet! The two DDs will smooth out and get more authority and the whole sound will become both of more contrast and what sounds like slight deeper bass and higher treble, believe it or not. Definitely more details in the treble and mids.

~around 50 hours.



Is the Penon Tail a good synergy source for Fan 2? Mine should arrive soon.

 

[gooberbm]

Hi guys,
I am looking for a comparison between Penon IEMs. Interested from best to worst: Bass texture and speed, mids quality, upper-mids smoothness.
How big is the price return for Penon IEMs? 10th is at least 50% better than FAN2 in sound quality, or should I expect the exact mids and bass quality but somewhat a different tuning?

I’m currently A/Bing the 10th with Serial and Fan 2 (I own Fan 2, Serial/10th are loans).

My opinion is 10th tries to split the middle between Serial (great, textured sub-bass focus) and Fan 2 (speedy, textured midbass focus) but it’s not Goldilocks “best of both worlds”. It’s a lesser version of both. It’s lower midrange is more recessed because it has more energetic upper-mids/treble, but has a more easily resolving nature because of it.

Frankly, I think unless you need the extra treble boost, you’re giving up more with 10th than Serial or Fan 2

 

[-rowan-]

Oh damn. For bass texture it's not the Serial??

Hey, don’t knock the Serial Analogue smoooothness may be its calling card but it has a good amount of bass texture as well.

 

[vandung2510]

Hey, don’t knock the Serial Analogue smoooothness may be its calling card but it has a good amount of bass texture as well.

I'm not knocking it, you did

 

[TWidXugA]

I just tried to buy a Penom 10th with Paypal in Penom's official store... Checkout apparently has a bug, it tells me:

Notice: Undefined property: Proxy::getAffiliateByTracking in /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/controller/payment/paypal.php on line 1951

If there is any Penom rep around, please take notice.

EDIT: That error was in Firefox, in Chrome I get this instead:

Notice: Undefined index: fax in /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/model/checkout/order.php on line 4Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/controller/startup/error.php:34) in /home/penonaud/public_html/system/storage/modification/system/library/response.php on line 12

EDIT2: It looks like in chrome the order went through, despite the non-reassuring error.

 

[lgcubana]

I just tried to buy a Penom 10th with Paypal in Penom's official store... Checkout apparently has a bug, it tells me:

Notice: Undefined property: Proxy::getAffiliateByTracking in /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/controller/payment/paypal.php on line 1951

If there is any Penom rep around, please take notice.

EDIT: That error was in Firefox, in Chrome I get this instead:

Notice: Undefined index: fax in /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/model/checkout/order.php on line 4Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home/penonaud/public_html/catalog/controller/startup/error.php:34) in /home/penonaud/public_html/system/storage/modification/system/library/response.php on line 12

Support@PenonAudio.com
or
PenonAudio@Hotmail.com

 

[-rowan-]

I'm not knocking it, you did

Certainly I wasn’t the one who was disappointed.

Anyway here’s a track for everyone to try out bass textures on their IEM of choice. Cheers.

*puts Serial back into ears*