The PENON official thread

[gooberbm]

Can I politely ask, how do you remember what the IEM sounded like 500 hours ago to judge if there is any difference.

Running all day and night constantly that is 21 days. I would struggle to remember specific details of sound 21 minutes later let alone 21 days.

This isn't coming from a complete burn in disbeliever, I think I have heard changes with some sets but frankly I am not sure it is IEM burn in, brain burn in or simply different perception on a different day which I know for certain happens.

I don't want to start a burn in argument, but I am interested in how you determine there was substantial change a minimum of 21 days later, possibly longer if the burn in wasn't continuous. Very precise notes, recording the sound and comparing ???

I don't know why somebody with the right gear doesn't record an IEM when new then say 500 hours old and use software to analyses the difference, that can't be hard with the right gear.

Or buy multiple sets and keep one at "close to new" condition as a control

 

[Redcarmoose]

Can I politely ask, how do you remember what the IEM sounded like 500 hours ago to judge if there is any difference.

Running all day and night constantly that is 21 days. I would struggle to remember specific details of sound 21 minutes later let alone 21 days.

This isn't coming from a complete burn in disbeliever, I think I have heard changes with some sets but frankly I am not sure it is IEM burn in, brain burn in or simply different perception on a different day which I know for certain happens.

I don't want to start a burn in argument, but I am interested in how you determine there was substantial change a minimum of 21 days later, possibly longer if the burn in wasn't continuous. Very precise notes, recording the sound and comparing ???

I don't know why somebody with the right gear doesn't record an IEM when new then say 500 hours old and use software to analyses the difference, that can't be hard with the right gear.

It's in fact really easy. Have you been to your favorite steak restaurant and in two weeks time noticed a slight difference in the meat? Nothing bad but there was a variable where the steak for whatever reason tasted off. You then go back in two weeks and notice everything is now the same. So over the course of a month and a half you noticed a vibrant difference.

But you're right, a lot of variables come into play with perception of burn-in. Brain burn-in is real, also we do experience differences due to the sequencing of IEMs, meaning it is just as important the quality of what we have been listening to prior, as it is in contrast to the present IEM in the ear. This argument will never be answered here, so it's best to respect everyones ideas, especially the folks who disbelieve in burn-in. But the reason we bring it up is it's a solution to how the new IEM sounds and solves a direct problem at times.

 

[Redcarmoose]

What? What? Seriously what?

Sony WM1Z to Penon Bass Cable to IMR BC 2023

So I'm learning that the Bass Cable isn't really all that much about quantity. It does provide quantity but there is something else! First off why would I put (the Bass Cable) with one of the most bass-centric IEMs, and with the most bass DAP..........then expect sculpted results? Typically you would guess a bass enhancing cable would be a no-no with such a combo? Our deepest fears tell us loss of PRaT, a murky swamp to try and ascertain (bass and midrange) details?

Well my friends, the Penon Bass Cable is about texture, bass texture, and refinement and all that........yada yada yada! Yep, it's vacuum cleaning the house of bass!

 

[BS5711]

It's in fact really easy. Have you been to your favorite steak restaurant and in two weeks time noticed a slight difference in the meat? Nothing bad but there was a variable where the steak for whatever reason tasted off. You then go back in two weeks and notice everything is now the same. So over the course of a month and a half you noticed a vibrant difference.

But you're right, a lot of variables come into play with perception of burn-in. Brain burn-in is real, also we do experience differences due to the sequencing of IEMs, meaning it is just as important the quality of what we have been listening to prior, as it is in contrast to the present IEM in the ear. This argument will never be answered here, so it's best to respect everyones ideas, especially the folks who disbelieve in burn-in. But the reason we bring it up is it's a solution to how the new IEM sounds and solves a direct problem at times.

OK I get that in principle but you have a great deal more faith in your auditory memory than I do in mine.

Perhaps that is just an experience thing, I have only been messing with this stuff for a few years.

It may also be that I am very engineering oriented by nature (for want of a better way to describe it) and I do not consider anything I do, hear, see whatever it might be to be 100% certain until it is proved repeatably to my satisfaction. With audio I just can't do that because I have no solid frame of reference so I come back to doubting what I think I am hearing even if at the time it seems convincing. I am not sure that is a benefit or a hinderance in understanding this hobby better

However, I do get that others are convinced on all manner of stuff I am less convinced by so I am happy to leave it at that, I am not trying to convince anybody.

 

[Redcarmoose]

OK I get that in principle but you have a great deal more faith in your auditory memory than I do in mine.

Perhaps that is just an experience thing, I have only been messing with this stuff for a few years.

It may also be that I am very engineering oriented by nature (for want of a better way to describe it) and I do not consider anything I do, hear, see whatever it might be to be 100% certain until it is proved repeatably to my satisfaction. With audio I just can't do that because I have no solid frame of reference so I come back to doubting what I think I am hearing even if at the time it seems convincing. I am not sure that is a benefit or a hinderance in understanding this hobby better

However, I do get that others are convinced on all manner of stuff I am less convinced by so I am happy to leave it at that, I am not trying to convince anybody.

We have many types here, representative of many schools of thought. I totally understand how the riddles of audio can be left as riddles or farces, depending on who you talk to and at what point you decide to agree. Yes, to a point it is absolutely understandable the fickleness of perception, and the missing cold hard facts that would/could give credibility to this nonsense. Call me pessimistic but I don't think there will be answers one way or the other in our lifetimes, maybe.........but it's not likely.

So I just believe what I believe, as I have nothing else to go by.

 

[shez.]

After 60+ hours of burn-in FAN 2, I'm hearing drastic changes in tuning since the bass is opened up. It's now not neutral slightly mid-centric but rather mildly V-shaped. Now bass has almost the same quantity as upper-mids, and upper-mids do not bother me with its quality. The mids are still relatively flat. However, with such tuning, they are not so boring sounding. Overall, the sound becomes more musical. To hear the bass in WM1A, my volume settings are changed from 55-60 to 45-50. I'm starting to like FAN 2.

I can't understand why manufacturers can't make a burn-in before shipping the product to the seller or client.
Is the first impression after unboxing, may be a factor in returning the product if it sounds wrong before burn-in?
Or is it hard to put instructions about burn-in to the box?

 

[Redcarmoose]

That is exactly as I predicted as far a an increase in V response. And 60 hours is nothing, I mean it’s typically when an IEM will start to show its traits, but wait till you have 100 more hours! Congratulations!

After 60+ hours of burn-in FAN 2, I'm hearing drastic changes in tuning since the bass is opened up. It's now not neutral slightly mid-centric but rather mildly V-shaped. Now bass has almost the same quantity as upper-mids, and upper-mids do not bother me with its quality. The mids are still relatively flat. However, with such tuning, they are not so boring sounding. Overall, the sound becomes more musical. To hear the bass in WM1A, my volume settings are changed from 55-60 to 45-50. I'm starting to like FAN 2.

I can't understand why manufacturers can't make a burn-in before shipping the product to the seller or client.
Is the first impression after unboxing, may be a factor in returning the product if it sounds wrong before burn-in?
Or is it hard to put instructions about burn-in to the box?

 

[ehjie]

There are rankings of movies, especially flicks with series installments, also band albums releases. Penon doesn't have that kind of ranking.
Each release had been carefully tuned and pitched for a particular sound design that cater to a select crowd - vinyl heads in particular. Tuned for Extensive listening Sessions. Other makers had also been considered so to not subscribe into the "pop" releases, thereby avoiding redundancy in the IN EAR Headphone market. This is evident on generated graphs by each release. Penon In ears won't qualify for 15 minute demoes. Most ears to communicate with the brain may not be as adaptively fast to get used to the Penon House sound tuning.
Of course, this is a matter of preference and to the individual hobbyist, its level of commitment into this hobby.

Hi guys,
I am looking for a comparison between Penon IEMs. Interested from best to worst: Bass texture and speed,

The 10th is the most evident candidate. Matured tuning. Crowd sourced tuned from this dedicated thread to please most. A relatively inexpensive price of entry given that it was tuned closer to a flagship In Ear Headphone and a country mile far from a mid tier set. As DS pointed out in the ISN thread, the 10th is "referency" - I concur.
Those twin 1/4" dynamic drivers surely defied physics, but it's an old tech, Yamaha was one of the audio companies to employ such an old, reliable tech - to make compact as loud and as large the scaling as its physically correct "standards" counterpart. I cannot state any other details, not my place to say it.
Overall the 10th, is a genuine anniversary release. My personal srp assessment, SQ and build wise goes up to usd1,799.
The best of course is the Volt, reference class Bass texture and speed, and add to these parameters, Smoothness. That's a tough act to follow in my book. Bass is uncoloured after 300 hours of weathering, you play voices, no added bassiness, no extra unwanted warmth. You play EDM, trance, get ready to groove! You play strings (including an upright), sweetness and taut is assured...

mids quality,

The so called Penon House Sound is the MIDS QUALITY. From the Sphere full range ba receiver (Penon's resume' for ba receiver bass) all the way to the true flagship totl Volt, mids quality is formidable, a difficult act to follow, especially given the cost of entry for each release. By every release, I had been assured I did get more bang for my hard earned buck (or quid, or euro or any other currency...)

upper-mids smoothness.
How big is the price return for Penon IEMs?

Starting from the Sphere @usd159+10 shipping (I always express it. I already saved on a set. Why wait any longer, correct?)
My personal srp assessment, usd299. To justify, my old W10 was usd249; Mids both organic, Sphere wins on both extremities. The Sphere approached absolute sound quality tuning to that of the Asian BA receiver specialist in ear headphone maker that retailed for usd399, with fancy unboxing experience...

10th is at least 50% better than FAN2 in sound quality,

Mids - equal
Bass - more amplitude on the 10th
Treble - more amplitude on the 10th
Presentation; Fan 2 Monitor style (Nearfield) imaging, the 10th is Holographic imaging a la Serial, with a just a little bit higher and deeper staging
The Fan 2 is a great set by itself in its price bracket

or should I expect the exact mids and bass quality

No

but somewhat a different tuning?

Yes, different tuning. The Fan 2 after more than 200 hours weathering is close to neutral tune with a nice bass boost
Whilst the 10th, an efficient set, is a shallow v shape signature, giving it great advantage to holograph easily even from an iphone
Albeit, the Fan 2 is nearfield staging, it doesn't get "in your face". There is decent distance outside of the periphery of the face and skull overall.
The Globe is presented as such, but to a greater degree and a larger scale of imaging, as a reference...

 

[zikarus]

OK I get that in principle but you have a great deal more faith in your auditory memory than I do in mine.

Perhaps that is just an experience thing, I have only been messing with this stuff for a few years.

It may also be that I am very engineering oriented by nature (for want of a better way to describe it) and I do not consider anything I do, hear, see whatever it might be to be 100% certain until it is proved repeatably to my satisfaction. With audio I just can't do that because I have no solid frame of reference so I come back to doubting what I think I am hearing even if at the time it seems convincing. I am not sure that is a benefit or a hinderance in understanding this hobby better

However, I do get that others are convinced on all manner of stuff I am less convinced by so I am happy to leave it at that, I am not trying to convince anybody.

Totally get your point. Questioning things and having doubts is mostly good anyways imo. But then comes the time when you experience the effect of burn-in for the first time by yourself as you remember the sound of a certain item differently from what it sounds like that moment. Now you have to decide what to do with that experience. I decided for the fun / joy of believing in burn-in and - being kind of a doubter myself - try to be careful not to exaggerate or make a dogma out of it and let people have their opinions on it...

 

[shez.]

There are rankings of movies, especially flicks with series installments, also band albums releases. Penon doesn't have that kind of ranking.
Each release had been carefully tuned and pitched for a particular sound design that cater to a select crowd - vinyl heads in particular. Tuned for Extensive listening Sessions. Other makers had also been considered so to not subscribe into the "pop" releases, thereby avoiding redundancy in the IN EAR Headphone market. This is evident on generated graphs by each release. Penon In ears won't qualify for 15 minute demoes. Most ears to communicate with the brain may not be as adaptively fast to get used to the Penon House sound tuning.
Of course, this is a matter of preference and to the individual hobbyist, its level of commitment into this hobby.

The 10th is the most evident candidate. Matured tuning. Crowd sourced tuned from this dedicated thread to please most. A relatively inexpensive price of entry given that it was tuned closer to a flagship In Ear Headphone and a country mile far for a mid tier set. As DS pointed out in the ISN thread, the 10th is "referency" - I concur.
Those twin 1/4" dynamic drivers surely defied physics, but it's an old tech, Yamaha was one of the audio companies to employ such an old, reliable tech - to make compact as loud and as large the scaling as its physically correct "standards" counterpart. I cannot state any other details, not my place to say it.
Overall the 10th, is a genuine anniversary release. My personal srp assessment, SQ and build wise goes up to usd1,799.
The best is of course is the Volt, reference class Bass texture and speed, and add to these parameters, Smoothness. That's a tough act to follow in my book. Bass is uncoloured after 300 hours of weathering, you play voices, no added bassiness, no extra unwanted warmth. You play EDM, trance, get ready to groove! You play strings (including an upright), sweetness and taut is assured...

The so called Penon House Sound is the MIDS QUALITY. From the Sphere full range ba receiver (Penon's resume' for ba receiver bass) all the way to the true flagship totl Volt, mids quality is formidable, a difficult act to follow, especially given the cost of entry for each release. By every release, I had been assured I did get more bang for my hard earned buck (or quid, or euro or any other currency...)

Starting from the Sphere @usd159+10 shipping (I always express it. I already saved on a set. Why wait any longer, correct?)
My personal srp assessment, usd299. To justify, my old W10 was usd249; Mids both organic, Sphere wins on both extremities. The Sphere approached absolute sound quality tuning to that of the Asian BA receiver specialist in ear headphone maker that retailed for usd399, with fancy unboxing experience...

Mids - equal
Bass - more amplitude on the 10th
Treble - more amplitude on the 10th
Presentation; Fan 2 Monitor style (Nearfield) imaging, the 10th is Holographic imaging a la Serial, with a jut a little bit higher and deeper staging
The Fan 2 is a great set by itself in its price bracket

No

Yes, different tuning. The Fan 2 after more than 200 hours weathering is close to neutral tune with a nice bass boost
Whilst the 10th, an efficient set, is a shallow v shape signature, giving it great advantage to holograph easily even from an iphone
Albeit, the Fan 2 is nearfield staging, it doesn't get "in your face". There is decent distance outside of the periphery of the face and skull overall.
The Globe is presented as such, but to a greater degree and a larger scale of imaging, as a reference...

I see now. It looks like it's worth to start trying to collect all Penon IEMs.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Ok, ok......I'm a little slow to comprehend what the joke is about. Yep, Penon in their wisdom played a joke on all of us, well at least the members of us that weren't already in the know. Yep, the Penon Bass Cable is for Bass IEMs, it doesn't exactly enhance (totally) the bass, what it does is sculpture it. and realign it into the stage to make bass heavy IEMs have better pace! Also more cohesiveness and balance; they are continuing the course for going onto the direction of fidelity through clarity and transparency! I love it! I really do! They are kinda going the direction of the Vocal Cable in that the ISN EST50 is cleaner and faster, like what the Vocal Cable does for the EST50. But the vocals are not (of course) as forward as the Vocal Cable.

 

[ehjie]

Can I politely ask, how do you remember what the IEM sounded like 500 hours ago to judge if there is any difference.

Running all day and night constantly that is 21 days. I would struggle to remember specific details of sound 21 minutes later let alone 21 days.

This isn't coming from a complete burn in disbeliever, I think I have heard changes with some sets but frankly I am not sure it is IEM burn in, brain burn in or simply different perception on a different day which I know for certain happens.

I don't want to start a burn in argument, but I am interested in how you determine there was substantial change a minimum of 21 days later, possibly longer if the burn in wasn't continuous. Very precise notes, recording the sound and comparing ???

I don't know why somebody with the right gear doesn't record an IEM when new then say 500 hours old and use software to analyses the difference, that can't be hard with the right gear.

I have presented a while back, a weathered Orb set.
Honestly, I cannot afford an IEC set due to cost and weight.
For work reasons, I travel a lot nowadays, where the job brings me I have to keep my personals as minimal as possible.
To manage a lot of stuff on top of staff management and the work itself can be grueling.
All the Penon sets I can carry is Non negotiable (LOL), hence, their individual cases are no more, I use Daiso compact cases to keep them safe.
I brought with me my imm6 though, but not enough free time to graph, and I just past the 110 hour mark for the 10th.
So if I have the time, I can generate another rough graph with 100 hours as baseline and progress from heron in.

Below is a rough graph, I'd say fairly accurate, without pina compensation. Those 3 crests about 10k, 14k, 16k were an improvement over the from zero hour.
Also to note, tip and upgrade cable may have influenced more of that treble improvement...

 

[lgcubana]

 

[BlueA]

MInd share a direct link? Cannot find it ^^

 

[shez.]

MInd share a direct link? Cannot find it ^^

It's on Aliexpress.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EQeajBj