[ssantan2]

His job is to both understand products before production for Penon/ISN and to let the enthusiasts know about them when the products are near release date.

So is it his job? If so that means he does work for Penon and is a member of the trade. Which is it?

 

[Redcarmoose]

So is it his job? If so that means he does work for Penon and is a member of the trade. Which is it?

Wow, we are really enjoying the products, people being nice, then we get insults like a poster saying he is doing too much and he needs to be on the pay-roll. Then someone posting how his job is not to introduce new products. I get products and get asked my opinion, I’m not a member of the trade and I don’t get paid. You see we do this for the love of audio. Dsnuts got a prototype of the cable for the Quattro and it was one of the first ones, as Penon wanted to know his opinion.

Can’t we all just get along here, there is no room for this ridiculousness, none.

By the way, please if you are going to quote me, included the whole quote next time.

 

[metafour]

So is it his job? If so that means he does work for Penon and is a member of the trade. Which is it?

Exactly.

I love how they're selling an IEM which "retails" for $699 and yet the company supposedly doesn't have a graph to share to show what it even sounds like. You're just supposed to take the "review" of one person who clearly isn't a reviewer and is more or less just PR/marketing for the company, seeing as how he literally has details and access to reveal upcoming products that the company itself hasn't even announced or shared pictures of. Companies don't just let random reviewers or bloggers RELEASE products for them. The fact that this individual in question has glowing reviews for literally every product and sub-brand that falls under the Penon umbrella makes it even more laughable.

Penon may produce great sounding IEM's, but this whole business practice is so obviously beyond sketchy. The idea that they "don't have a graph" of the TSMR X 10th AE is comical. How exactly are they tuning these IEM's? They would need to measure them. Also, the suggestion that this is a $699 IEM but they're just so kind so they're going to release it at $300 off the retail price is unbelievable. That is a cheap tactic to get you to buy a $399 IEM by making it seem like you're getting some epic deal that you shouldn't pass up, when really the "MSRP" is $399, not $699.

 

[ssantan2]

By the way, please if you are going to quote me, included the whole quote next time.

I actually edited it to include the full sentence before you post. Not sure how that changes things. In your whole response you seemed to ignore my question though. You are the one who said it's his job. I'm just asking you to clarify.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Exactly.

I love how they're selling an IEM which "retails" for $699 and yet the company supposedly doesn't have a graph to share to show what it even sounds like. You're just supposed to take the "review" of one person who clearly isn't a reviewer and is more or less just PR/marketing for the company, seeing as how he literally has details and access to reveal upcoming products that the company itself hasn't even announced or shared pictures of. Companies don't just let random reviewers or bloggers RELEASE products for them. The fact that this individual in question has glowing reviews for literally every product and sub-brand that falls under the Penon umbrella makes it even more laughable.

Penon may produce great sounding IEM's, but this whole business practice is so obviously beyond sketchy. The idea that they "don't have a graph" of the TSMR X 10th AE is comical. How exactly are they tuning these IEM's? They would need to measure them. Also, the suggestion that this is a $699 IEM but they're just so kind so they're going to release it at $300 off the retail price is unbelievable. That is a cheap tactic to get you to buy a $399 IEM by making it seem like you're getting some epic deal that you shouldn't pass up, when really the "MSRP" is $399, not $699.

Why don’t you wait till others hear how good an IEM is, before crying in your beer? Then you may realize if the TSMR is real or not. This company can retail stuff anyway they want, if you have a problem with it, if you think they are breaking some kind of law of ethics.....again wait till the product is reviewed by normal folks who you trust. A company can willfully withhold graphs, so what, graphs are never the whole picture anyway, and can be misinterpreted at times. Companies let people have their products all the time before they come out. So do you remember the 7Hz Timeless 2, that was released to a few high profile YouTube reviewers and some said it was good, some said it was bad, that was like 6 months ago and it is under revamp and still not released. This is all standard practice here in the audio world.

 

[doubletrobbel]

Can’t we all just get along here, there is no room for this ridiculousness, none.

??
Care to elaborate on this absurd response?

 

[Redcarmoose]

You should be on Penon’s payroll no doubt

??
Care to elaborate on this absurd response?

 

[thaslaya]

??
Care to elaborate on this absurd response?

Ya this is just coming off as homophobic. Not a great look for Redcarmoose...

 

[shiningtofu]

I think it’s obvious that when a reviewer gets access to early units, they have some sort of relationship with the company (whether or not that might also include monetary incentives or other benefits).

But I don’t think it’s appropriate to attack them or their opinions purely on that basis. Reviewers that receive early units might be biased to some degree, but does that really matter when sound is already so subjective? Any reviewer’s description and assessment will be biased in the sense that they have their own preference and reactions to the sound they are hearing. As with all reviews, take it as what it is - just a single person’s opinion.

If you don’t trust it or find the company’s marketing/release approach suspicious, then simply don’t buy the product. We should take responsibility for how we choose to spend our money and not blame reviewers when it doesn’t turn out to our liking.

I for one appreciate anyone sharing their take. It gives us all more information to work with and it’s part of the joy of sharing our thoughts on a hobby we love. Everyone has different styles of doing that. A more passionate and excited reviewer might simply have that style of expression which some might view as building a hype train.

But whether you choose to hop onto that hype train is your choice. No one here can force you to buy anything.

 

[Rambone]

I can see and understand where people are coming from and it's healthy to question things when there is a lack of information, graphs, a bit of FOMO involved and the only source of information seems to lean heavily on products under the Penon Umbrella, each can be a cause of concern and open for criticism. What I don't agree with is attack on character, I do not see this being helpful or productive. This is especially so when you take into account the amount of passion and contributions individuals make here.

Maybe it is fortunate that only limited quantities the X were sold due to the holiday putting a hard stop on production. With the sets that are going out, there is ample opportunity for people to speak their mind on what they think about the TSMR X, provide graphs (which should have been provided), reset expectations, squash hype and call out any bull$hit. I agree that more should have been done for this set. As for FOMO, those who want one at the advertised price will have opportunity to scoop one up once the holiday break is over, assuming there is still demand once units make it out into the wild and scrutinized.

I don't find it unusual that reviewers get sets well before release to evaluate and communicate findings good or bad. Timeless II comes to mind, look what happened to that one. Straight back to the drawing board and still no word on when that thing is coming. Moondrop is another example, the Void was sent out to folks and got slammed which prompted Moondrop to recall units and update some of the material design based on feedback, for whatever that is worth.

Stay strong, be kind and constructive. The fight is over for now.

 

[iscorpio71]

I think it’s obvious that when a reviewer gets access to early units, they have some sort of relationship with the company (whether or not that might also include monetary incentives or other benefits).

But I don’t think it’s appropriate to attack them or their opinions purely on that basis. Reviewers that receive early units might be biased to some degree, but does that really matter when sound is already so subjective? Any reviewer’s description and assessment will be biased in the sense that they have their own preference and reactions to the sound they are hearing. As with all reviews, take it as what it is - just a single person’s opinion.

If you don’t trust it or find the company’s marketing/release approach suspicious, then simply don’t buy the product. We should take responsibility for how we choose to spend our money and not blame reviewers when it doesn’t turn out to our liking.

I for one appreciate anyone sharing their take. It gives us all more information to work with and it’s part of the joy of sharing our thoughts on a hobby we love. Everyone has different styles of doing that. A more passionate and excited reviewer might simply have that style of expression which some might view as building a hype train.

But whether you choose to hop onto that hype train is your choice. No one here can force you to buy anything.

Well said; totally concur with this though.

I would add that I've acquired several iem lately from Penon, based on Dsnuts input. So far they have been accurate.

While some other reviewers outside this forum, mainly YT, are not so much trustworthy.

I am also waiting on TSMR-X, my first Tansio.

 

[bschnell9]

Woah woah woah I was merely saying he does an amazing job selling IEMs on this site and should be getting kickbacks. Damn moose

 

[DagsJT]

Surely a mod should be looking at some action for that post?

 

[bschnell9]

Wow, we are really enjoying the products, people being nice, then we get insults like a poster saying he is doing too much and he needs to be on the pay-roll. Then someone posting how his job is not to introduce new products. I get products and get asked my opinion, I’m not a member of the trade and I don’t get paid. You see we do this for the love of audio. Dsnuts got a prototype of the cable for the Quattro and it was one of the first ones, as Penon wanted to know his opinion.

Can’t we all just get along here, there is no room for this ridiculousness, none.

By the way, please if you are going to quote me, included the whole quote next time.

So linking a video calling me gay is getting along? I was not taking a shot @Dsnuts. He has helped me out in the past and I appreciate his posts. Maybe my post came out wrong but at that specific time he was putting in serious work hyping the TSMR X and considering it sold out very quickly WITHOUT A GRAPH at the introductory price I thought to myself “damn, he deserves a few bucks for that.” Sorry for offending you

 

[jaker782]

So linking a video calling me gay is getting along? I was not taking a shot @Dsnuts. He has helped me out in the past and I appreciate his posts. Maybe my post came out wrong but at that specific time he was putting in serious work hyping the TSMR X and considering it sold out very quickly WITHOUT A GRAPH at the introductory price I thought to myself “damn, he deserves a few bucks for that.” Sorry for offending you

No reason to apologize... Moose is the only one who interpreted your comment as an insult and the only one with egg on his face. Maybe he is having a bad day. It appears the offending post with linked video has been removed, so I guess it didn't happen...

And to the discussion on Dsnuts, he IS part of Penon's marketing campaign, plain and simple. That doesn't mean he is getting paid, or isn't being honest about his impressions/reviews. I for one welcome the information he posts, but you just need to take it at face value. I've owned just about of Penon's iems because I get along with their house sound, and like reading impressions in this thread, whether they are from "real" reviewers or not.