[metafour]

I think it’s obvious that when a reviewer gets access to early units, they have some sort of relationship with the company (whether or not that might also include monetary incentives or other benefits).

But I don’t think it’s appropriate to attack them or their opinions purely on that basis. Reviewers that receive early units might be biased to some degree, but does that really matter when sound is already so subjective? Any reviewer’s description and assessment will be biased in the sense that they have their own preference and reactions to the sound they are hearing. As with all reviews, take it as what it is - just a single person’s opinion.

If you don’t trust it or find the company’s marketing/release approach suspicious, then simply don’t buy the product. We should take responsibility for how we choose to spend our money and not blame reviewers when it doesn’t turn out to our liking.

I for one appreciate anyone sharing their take. It gives us all more information to work with and it’s part of the joy of sharing our thoughts on a hobby we love. Everyone has different styles of doing that. A more passionate and excited reviewer might simply have that style of expression which some might view as building a hype train.

But whether you choose to hop onto that hype train is your choice. No one here can force you to buy anything.

No offense, but you seem very naïve. Here are some things to consider:

1) Is this poster even a "reviewer"? How do we know he isn't a literal employee of the company who has signed up for an account and is therefore engaging in the practice of shilling? He was 15,000+ posts and 90%+ of them are in the Penon/ISN/etc. threads. When he posts in the Discovery thread, it's almost always about Penon/ISN/etc. products. He almost exclusively reviews Penon-umbrella products. There are a few Simgot and FIIO reviews sprinkled in, but Penon also sells Simgot and FIIO products. Pretty strange that someone is so into IEM's but apparently only bothers to review/post about products sold on one website. He is strangely lacking in reviews of the million other more popular Chi-fi brands. If someone was a "cellphone reviewer" but somehow only reviewed Xiaomi/Poco/Redmi/etc. phones (it: all Xiaomi sub-brands) wouldn't that make you question exactly what type of "reviewer" he was? Why hasn't that reviewer reviewed any Apple or Google phones?

2) If you actually read his reviews, he clearly doesn't interject any sort of personal bias towards sound-profile. How do we know that? Because the bassy Penon IEM is a 5-star to him, the "more relaxed" Penon IEM is a 5-star, the vocal-focused Penon IEM is a 5-star, etc. Whatever the tuning is, he generally finds a way to love it. Don't even get me started on the cable reviews. This is why it doesn't actually seem like he is "reviewing" products, more-so he is selling the company's brochure of what the target audience is supposed to be for each product. Its almost as if the company tells him what to report, and he waxes poetic about those details. If everything is a 4.5-5-star, then what exactly are you learning? I find it hard to believe that a company that is releasing IEM's/cables under like 3-4 different brand-names somehow has virtually no "misses", but if you read his reviews, they are always glowing beyond belief regardless of what the sound profile is. That is pretty convenient, if you ask me.

3) Penon's own practice towards sending out review products makes this poster's level of access even more suspicious. The company doesn't send out products to any of the known/big Youtube reviewers (Crinacle, Gizaudio, etc.) which is why they get little to no traction on Youtube, but for some reason they love sending all of their products to this one random poster on HeadFi, who also conveniently writes novels about all of their products with almost exclusively rave reviews. He even releases photos of products before they are even available on the company's website. I saw someone post that they must do this because they just "trust his opinion", and I almost fell out of my chair from laughter. The more logical conclusion is that they don't want to risk more realistic or potentially negative reviews from the big players who have less reason to be complimentary by default, so they've hooked their claws into this one "asset" who gets free stuff from them under the condition that they KNOW he will post glowing reviews. If you sign up for their newsletter, they will literally link to HIS POSTS on here when they release new products. Again, if he isn't a literal employee of the company, he may as well be.

And that's the whole crux of the problem here. If he is under some agreement wherein he gets free stuff (or even compensation) to act as PR for the company so that they can sell their products, then don't tell me that his involvement on this forum isn't a clear conflict of interest. The problem is that his posts/reviews are clearly presented as if he is a normal guy who is just "reviewing" items. People read those and make purchasing decisions. If he is in fact just a mouthpiece, then not disclosing that is WRONG.

 

[DrewVz]

Lol you people are so sensitive! What's going on here? I withstood bigger insults when I was 8 years old than you guys can seem to handle as adults. And I'm 99.999% sure Moose wasn't name calling so much as he was pointing out how childish of a direction this thread has taken.

If you folks have any issues with Dsnuts or Moose, then try sending a PM. I'd rather discuss Penon products here than argue about a childish video, or crying about an opinion you dislike. Sheesh.

 

[DagsJT]

Lol you people are so sensitive! What's going on here? I withstood bigger insults when I was 8 years old than you guys can seem to handle as adults. And I'm 99.999% sure Moose wasn't name calling so much as he was pointing out how childish of a direction this thread has taken.

If you folks have any issues with Dsnuts or Moose, then try sending a PM. I'd rather discuss Penon products here than argue about a childish video, or crying about an opinion you dislike. Sheesh.

He replied with a video calling someone gay. You want to defend someone being homophobic now? Homophobia has no place, regardless of whether their intention was to point out the direction of the thread

 

[DrewVz]

He replied with a video calling someone gay. You want to defend someone being homophobic now? Homophobia has no place, regardless of whether their intention was to point out the direction of the thread

Sigh.

 

[bschnell9]

Lol you people are so sensitive! What's going on here? I withstood bigger insults when I was 8 years old than you guys can seem to handle as adults. And I'm 99.999% sure Moose wasn't name calling so much as he was pointing out how childish of a direction this thread has taken.

If you folks have any issues with Dsnuts or Moose, then try sending a PM. I'd rather discuss Penon products here than argue about a childish video, or crying about an opinion you dislike. Sheesh.

Ya I don’t really care about the video itself but sending something like that and then saying in another post he wishes we could get along is kinda funny.

 

[doubletrobbel]

Lol you people are so sensitive! What's going on here? I withstood bigger insults when I was 8 years old than you guys can seem to handle as adults. And I'm 99.999% sure Moose wasn't name calling so much as he was pointing out how childish of a direction this thread has taken.

If you folks have any issues with Dsnuts or Moose, then try sending a PM. I'd rather discuss Penon products here than argue about a childish video, or crying about an opinion you dislike. Sheesh.

Clearly this doesn't offend you, but put yourself in their shoes. People should have enough respect for one another to see that it may offend others and use their words more intelligently.

This started as a discussion about Penon, but a certain someone took a wrong turn and soured the atmosphere in the thread with their dated sense of "humour". In a way which I find disrespecting and appalling

 

[DrewVz]

Clearly this doesn't offend you, but put yourself in their shoes. People should have enough respect for one another to see that it may offend others and use their words more intelligently.

This started as a discussion about Penon, but a certain someone took a wrong turn and soured the atmosphere in the thread with their dated sense of "humour". In a way which I find appalling

If you find it offensive, then report it to the moderators and let them handle it. That's what the little button at the bottom of the post is for.

 

[SweetCans928]

(removed. My sentiment didn't change, but I felt a bit too preachy in retrospect. We are all different, and sometimes it feels like that isn't as respected as it should be)

Edit - Maybe this part of my post can stay though: Quattro bass impressions seem all over the place. Some early impressions were along the lines of "if this has FOUR dynamic drivers, why is the bass so light?" and now I'm seeing some that are saying they're similarly bassy to the Campfire Trifecta. Dang these are hard to resist, just for the curiosity factor.

 

[szore]

Yeah, we're getting waaaay off topic here....

 

[ssantan2]

Yep, while I agree it was a bad post it seems like it was reported and properly handled so there isn't much value to add by continuing to talk about.

Can we circle back to my question on why TSMR is counting their venting system as a driver? If there was a TSMR thread I would ask it there but it seems like this is where all TSMR info is...

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

No offense, but you seem very naïve. Here are some things to consider:

1) Is this poster even a "reviewer"? How do we know he isn't a literal employee of the company who has signed up for an account and is therefore engaging in the practice of shilling? He was 15,000+ posts and 90%+ of them are in the Penon/ISN/etc. threads. When he posts in the Discovery thread, it's almost always about Penon/ISN/etc. products. He almost exclusively reviews Penon-umbrella products. There are a few Simgot and FIIO reviews sprinkled in, but Penon also sells Simgot and FIIO products. Pretty strange that someone is so into IEM's but apparently only bothers to review/post about products sold on one website. He is strangely lacking in reviews of the million other more popular Chi-fi brands. If someone was a "cellphone reviewer" but somehow only reviewed Xiaomi/Poco/Redmi/etc. phones (it: all Xiaomi sub-brands) wouldn't that make you question exactly what type of "reviewer" he was? Why hasn't that reviewer reviewed any Apple or Google phones?

2) If you actually read his reviews, he clearly doesn't interject any sort of personal bias towards sound-profile. How do we know that? Because the bassy Penon IEM is a 5-star to him, the "more relaxed" Penon IEM is a 5-star, the vocal-focused Penon IEM is a 5-star, etc. Whatever the tuning is, he generally finds a way to love it. Don't even get me started on the cable reviews. This is why it doesn't actually seem like he is "reviewing" products, more-so he is selling the company's brochure of what the target audience is supposed to be for each product. Its almost as if the company tells him what to report, and he waxes poetic about those details. If everything is a 4.5-5-star, then what exactly are you learning? I find it hard to believe that a company that is releasing IEM's/cables under like 3-4 different brand-names somehow has virtually no "misses", but if you read his reviews, they are always glowing beyond belief regardless of what the sound profile is. That is pretty convenient, if you ask me.

3) Penon's own practice towards sending out review products makes this poster's level of access even more suspicious. The company doesn't send out products to any of the known/big Youtube reviewers (Crinacle, Gizaudio, etc.) which is why they get little to no traction on Youtube, but for some reason they love sending all of their products to this one random poster on HeadFi, who also conveniently writes novels about all of their products with almost exclusively rave reviews. He even releases photos of products before they are even available on the company's website. I saw someone post that they must do this because they just "trust his opinion", and I almost fell out of my chair from laughter. The more logical conclusion is that they don't want to risk more realistic or potentially negative reviews from the big players who have less reason to be complimentary by default, so they've hooked their claws into this one "asset" who gets free stuff from them under the condition that they KNOW he will post glowing reviews. If you sign up for their newsletter, they will literally link to HIS POSTS on here when they release new products. Again, if he isn't a literal employee of the company, he may as well be.

And that's the whole crux of the problem here. If he is under some agreement wherein he gets free stuff (or even compensation) to act as PR for the company so that they can sell their products, then don't tell me that his involvement on this forum isn't a clear conflict of interest. The problem is that his posts/reviews are clearly presented as if he is a normal guy who is just "reviewing" items. People read those and make purchasing decisions. If he is in fact just a mouthpiece, then not disclosing that is WRONG.

Now here is someone who understands the PENON ecosystem. My last bought discounted Penon was the Quattro and sure as heck when you put out a luke warm review the Fan Boys come out with Axes , I see comments like oh he must have had a defective unit or , channel imbalance and other crap. Maybe , just maybe it sounds exactly the way I heard it to me and my ears.

Listening to the Hype 10 last night just for fun without reviewing ears , I was thinking something about the Timbre and Tonality of the mids sound off and sure enough as soon as I put the Quattro in ,I understood what's wrong with the H10 , the timbre is off and the Quattro's mids really told to true nature of what the playback should have sounded like, the Quattro's tonality for the mids are standout excellent and set a reference standard for me.

It also reinforced my opinion the Bass hold back this set snuffing out the mids and the big gap between the mid driver and the two subs creates a information void in that mid bass area 150-300hz.

As soon as my review came out I shared it with PENON and communication stopped and I got ghosted.

I have been told in the past not to post any review on Head-Fi unless they were 4* and above.
I am sure others were asked the same and the reason you don't see 3.5 or really 4* on any Sound Ryhme, ISN , PENON, TSMR or any other brand under the PENON store banner on this site. This site is all about $$ never forget that. The whole front page is about that. I used to be proud when my reviews got the front landing banners only to realize that manufacturers need to pay to display it's not a review showcase so much as infomercial and that's sad. It actually saddens me to be used like that. I guess the price you pay for getting free or discounted stuff.

Did I buy the TSMR X and I don't think one will be sent or even offered at a discount. I was told this one "I don't know if this one fits you or not" honestly what doesn't it matter unless you think it isn't worthy of a honest review and you would rather just have the regulars on this thread shill it instead.

I asked for a graph for the X that I know they have, but don't expect to see one from a official source.

This thread gets read by PENON silently and the little spies will report my outspoken transgressions of which I give zero $hi!s.

Honestly if PENON can't take abit of criticism and have thier ears and eyes closed that's on them.

That saying that your are either growing or dying it a absolute truth!

The more posts like the one I liked above that question the status quo the better.

See through the flowery writing the 4 and 5 fluff.

Post your comments and impressions on here with what your feelings and feedback were on how you heard with your ears and maybe , just maybe this thread can become useful to people just starting out in the hobby to get a real sense from end users about how gear sounds to help with some insite and help us decide whether or not to spend the money.

Calling me a clown , insinuating someone is gay is part of the bigger problem on here and this person has no credibility, never has.

I respect DSNUTS ears and think he/she has a good set. I see thought the marketing and take it for what it is.

If you read his/her comments they are transparent enough if you know how to read the language. It's not hard to find things to like on any set of when you look through rose colored glasses.

But it's the negative stuff that doesn't get talked about that's the issue.

I am shooting a review right now on the Flagship Impact and again conflicted not on its TOTL sound but where it actually fits into the PENON ecosystem?

To me PENON represented lush music mids and I have heard many times that the FAN2 & TURBO doesn't represent the "True House Sound" of PENON?
Well how can the TOTL of this company also not sound dark and lush and sound more like my two other favorite sets?

Time to reflect a bit more, listen a bit more and shoot my video.

I will no longer write reviews and post on this site and like many others have moved over to HiFiGuides to share a more open conversation with the $$ factor.

 

[jaker782]

No offense, but you seem very naïve. Here are some things to consider:

1) Is this poster even a "reviewer"? How do we know he isn't a literal employee of the company who has signed up for an account and is therefore engaging in the practice of shilling? He was 15,000+ posts and 90%+ of them are in the Penon/ISN/etc. threads. When he posts in the Discovery thread, it's almost always about Penon/ISN/etc. products. He almost exclusively reviews Penon-umbrella products. There are a few Simgot and FIIO reviews sprinkled in, but Penon also sells Simgot and FIIO products. Pretty strange that someone is so into IEM's but apparently only bothers to review/post about products sold on one website. He is strangely lacking in reviews of the million other more popular Chi-fi brands. If someone was a "cellphone reviewer" but somehow only reviewed Xiaomi/Poco/Redmi/etc. phones (it: all Xiaomi sub-brands) wouldn't that make you question exactly what type of "reviewer" he was? Why hasn't that reviewer reviewed any Apple or Google phones?

2) If you actually read his reviews, he clearly doesn't interject any sort of personal bias towards sound-profile. How do we know that? Because the bassy Penon IEM is a 5-star to him, the "more relaxed" Penon IEM is a 5-star, the vocal-focused Penon IEM is a 5-star, etc. Whatever the tuning is, he generally finds a way to love it. Don't even get me started on the cable reviews. This is why it doesn't actually seem like he is "reviewing" products, more-so he is selling the company's brochure of what the target audience is supposed to be for each product. Its almost as if the company tells him what to report, and he waxes poetic about those details. If everything is a 4.5-5-star, then what exactly are you learning? I find it hard to believe that a company that is releasing IEM's/cables under like 3-4 different brand-names somehow has virtually no "misses", but if you read his reviews, they are always glowing beyond belief regardless of what the sound profile is. That is pretty convenient, if you ask me.

3) Penon's own practice towards sending out review products makes this poster's level of access even more suspicious. The company doesn't send out products to any of the known/big Youtube reviewers (Crinacle, Gizaudio, etc.) which is why they get little to no traction on Youtube, but for some reason they love sending all of their products to this one random poster on HeadFi, who also conveniently writes novels about all of their products with almost exclusively rave reviews. He even releases photos of products before they are even available on the company's website. I saw someone post that they must do this because they just "trust his opinion", and I almost fell out of my chair from laughter. The more logical conclusion is that they don't want to risk more realistic or potentially negative reviews from the big players who have less reason to be complimentary by default, so they've hooked their claws into this one "asset" who gets free stuff from them under the condition that they KNOW he will post glowing reviews. If you sign up for their newsletter, they will literally link to HIS POSTS on here when they release new products. Again, if he isn't a literal employee of the company, he may as well be.

And that's the whole crux of the problem here. If he is under some agreement wherein he gets free stuff (or even compensation) to act as PR for the company so that they can sell their products, then don't tell me that his involvement on this forum isn't a clear conflict of interest. The problem is that his posts/reviews are clearly presented as if he is a normal guy who is just "reviewing" items. People read those and make purchasing decisions. If he is in fact just a mouthpiece, then not disclosing that is WRONG.

Valid points here. Educate yourself and make your own decisions about what you read in this thread. Head-Fi is somewhat of a hype machine for all manufacturers. It is full of shillers, fake reviewers, and real authentic reviews. It is sometimes difficult to tell which is which, so you have to take everything with a grain of salt. It is what it is.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

??
Care to elaborate on this absurd response?

Another well asked classic response to a toxic post insinuating and putting people down if you say anything negative. Posts can be deleted but the truth is still out there. These toxic poison of these people are still here and the lingering stench makes me nauseous.
@doubletrobbel good on you for calling out this person!

 

[Dsnuts]

Let me explain my relationship with Penon so you guys can understand why I get insider information. I don't work for Penon first of all. If I did I wouldn't be reviewing for the myriads of others on headfi. I am a hardcore headfier first and foremost, folks that know me here on headfi know what I am about. I have always been about discovering unknown manufacturers in the world that make excellent products that don't get any spotlight here on headfi. This was the entire reasoning for the now 12 year running Discovery thread.

I don't get a single penny from them for anything I post or do here on headfi. I'm not the type to somehow profit from representing someone for their benefit. I really couldn't care for my status or any type of reputation or anything like that. What I am is an enthusiast just like you.

I discovered Penon for myself back in the early days of Penonaudio.com where I decided to give them a try by buying some cables and IEMs from them. What I found out was that their stuff was not only good but actually held a lot of value. So I started buying from them more and more to the point where you can say I quickly become VIP status. As a reviewer I started to review items from Penon and then I started giving them some feedback on products. Some advice based on how Headfiers would view their products. So, they seen that probably as valuable feedback in regard to their wares. You can say I have built a repore with them and visa versa. I have learned a lot about their process and the right way they handle business. I have very high regards to the man behind a lot of their designs for IEMs and cables in Mr Chi Kong Hui. I consider him a mentor as he has taught me so much about our hobby, about sound. About what materials does what for cables. If you guys don't know by now these guys are sound geniuses that run a company called Penon. Unlike other business models where they actively try to gouge the enthusiasts as much as possible. How many manufacturers you guys know that give insider perks and legit early discounts? If you own a few of Penon stuff. Just how much you think the same item you received would cost you more money coming from someone else?

There is a reason why they keep their wares at a reasonable cost, especially when compared to others in the industry. Penon is more about selling more vs selling a few just for max profit if that makes sense. Take the TSMR-X for example. I know for a fact they are not making much money from this one.. The reason why they put the RP at $699 is because that is actually the sound value for this one. A sound value is what the IEM can and are regularly sold for. For folks that don't know Penon it seems gimmicky but that is Penon telling you. This is a high value item that you should pay attention to is what that means.

I was a business man for something like 13 years running 4 retail operations and I am the type of person that can sniff out crooks in the industry. If you guys have not figured it out yet. Penon and their operation are not crooks. Infact the opposite. These are the type of guys you want to know in the industry. I know to the casual observer you all might think that I am getting some type of monetary spiff for posting like I do. Mr Chi Kong trusts my judgement on things.

What you guys see on the threads is the best of what Penon does but what you guys don't see are the mistakes. Yes even Penon screws things up but you don't see or read about that much because. That is the type of stuff that gets reworked or rejected even before its ready for prime time. You better believe one thing for certain. Penon folks are masters at what they do and they run a boutique smaller business out of their site. Everything they do is meticulous and planned. Everything they do is to make some of the best the industry has to offer at all price levels but at prices people can actually afford. If that's not a good business model than I don't know what is.

Just know if I can't recommend a product to my best friend. You bet your ass I am not going to recommend them to you. On the other hand if the stuff is crazy good like the TSMR-X? I am gonna raise a stink about it.

 

[ToneDeafMonk]

Let me explain my relationship with Penon so you guys can understand why I get insider information. I don't work for Penon first of all. If I did I wouldn't be reviewing for the myriads of others on headfi. I am a hardcore headfier first and foremost, folks that know me here on headfi know what I am about. I have always been about discovering unknown manufacturers in the world that make excellent products that don't get any spotlight here on headfi. This was the entire reasoning for the now 12 year running Discovery thread.

I don't get a single penny from them for anything I post or do here on headfi. I'm not the type to somehow profit from representing someone for their benefit. I really couldn't care for my status or any type of reputation or anything like that. What I am is an enthusiast just like you.

I discovered Penon for myself back in the early days of Penonaudio.com where I decided to give them a try by buying some cables and IEMs from them. What I found out was that their stuff was not only good but actually held a lot of value. So I started buying from them more and more to the point where you can say I quickly become VIP status. As a reviewer I started to review items from Penon and then I started giving them some feedback on products. Some adviced based on how Headfiers would view their products. So, they seen that probably as valuable feedback in regard to their wares. You can say I have built a repore with them and visa versa. I have learned a lot about their process and the right way handle business. I have very high regards to the man behind a lot of their designs for IEMs and cables in Mr Chi King Hui. I consider him a mentor as he has taught me so much about our hobby, about sound. About what materials does what for cables. If you guys don't know by now these guys are sound geniuses that run a company called Penon. Unlike other business models where they actively try to gouge the enthusiasts as much as possible. How many manufacturers you guys know that give insider perks and legit early discounts? If you own a few of Penon stuff. Just how much you think the same item you received would cost you more money coming from someone else?

There is a reason why they keep their wares at a reasonable cost, especially when compared to others in the industry. Penon is more about selling more vs selling a few just for max profit if that makes sense. Take the TSMR-X for example. I know for a fact they are not making much money from this one.. The reason why they put the RP at $699 is because that is actually the sound value for this one. A sound value is what the IEM can and are regularly sold for. For folks that don't know Penon it seems gimmicky but that is Penon telling you. This is a high value item that you should pay attention to is what that means.

I was a business man for something like 13 years running 4 retail operations and I am the type of person that can sniff out crooks in the industry. If you guys have not figured it out yet. Penon and their operation are not crooks. Infact the opposite. These are the type of guys you want to know in the industry. I know to the casual observer you all might think that I am getting some type of monetary spiff for posting like I do. Mr Chi Kong trusts my judgement on things.

What you guys see on the threads is the best of what Penon does but what you guys don't see are the mistakes. Yes even Penon screws things up but you don't see or read about that much because. That is the type of stuff that gets reworked or rejected even before its ready for prime time. You better believe one thing for certain. Penon folks are masters at what they do and they run a boutique smaller business out of their site. Everything they do is meticulous and planned. Everything they do is to make some of the best the industry has to offer at all price levels but at prices people can actually afford. If that's not a good business model than I don't know what is.

Just know if I can't recommend a product to my best friend. You bet your ass I am not going to recommend them to you. On the other hand if the stuff is crazy good like the TSMR-X? I am gonna raise a stink about it.

I will say over the years I was also very critical of you @Dsnuts but as I got to work with PENON and reading you impressions I agree with alot of your impressions and think you have a good sets of ears. You are respectful of people and try to tell it like you hear it.

You have earned my respect and we're the reason I started to first write reviews and move on the YTube. - after you told me to put up or shut up. I think you told me if I thought I could do better then do so.

I don't think you have ever had bad intentions or wish to mislead anyone you sound like a audio enthusiast. It's more on the PENON side that things go sideways like the mail list discount codes and being asked NOT to share that have me shaking my head.

So thank you! Sorry If I was the ass.
TDM.