[RPGWiZaRD]

Just ordered these as a xmas present. These are like perfect gifts to make, great sound that should appeal to lots of people for the very affordable price. At the moment they are $33.29 with free super saver delivery on amazon.com.

 

[SobbingWallet]

Quote:

Get out Audacity.
 
Play 60hz, then 50hz, then 40hz, then 30hz. Stop there. Play the tones for a good 2~5 seconds or even 10 seconds. Analyze the sound. Absorb it.
Do the same with another headphone. One that is less capable with sub-bass. One that is equal or better with sub-bass.
Re-turn your ears.
Make sure your source is the same on each though.
 
Very best,
 

Alright, I'm trying to do a roughly volume-matched test of the HTF600 against the FA-011, but I'm running into some problems.

One thing has become very apparent:  My problem yesterday was that I got a channel imbalance again, and it seems to affect the bass frequencies the worst.  The problem was in the left driver, so I blew, blew, and blew...and it still didn't work, but it did once I knocked on the housing.  Then I volume-matched, and in the middle of the test, the right driver went wonky.  It didn't go out so much as start sputtering, but I got it to work with a good knock.  I started over, and...the left one went out again.  I blew some more, and it didn't pop until I put it on my head.  (CRAP!  The right one is out again.  ARGH.  ...okay, I fixed it by cranking up the volume on a 60Hz tone.  It popped.)

So, it's time to do a test again (volume-matched again with working drivers, lol).  Regardless of the final results, one thing is clear:  The sub-bass on the HTF600's can be very good...when the drivers are working right.  Odds are, my initial HTF600 impressions were marred by some level of channel imbalance.  No matter how many times I test with mono tones and fix the issue, it seems to keep popping up as soon as I let my guard down.

Anyway, I've just done a sighted comparison of my HTF600 and FA-011 (blind would be basically impossible).  I volume-matched a 1kHz tone VERY roughly by ear:  At 79% computer volume, I can set my O2's volume knob due west for the HTF600 and northwest for the FA-011, and the volume is just about equal.  I picked 79% because it allowed for this memorable mapping...which is important, since I have to move the knob back and forth every time I switch headphones.  The margin of error here is pretty high, especially considering minute movements of the knob will significantly affect the volume on the HTF600.  In hindsight, I probably should have used a lower digital volume and used more of the analog knob.  (I also could have kept the analog knob constant and volume-matched based on digital controls, but I can't move them quickly enough to do a good comparison.)  An accurate test would probably require volume matching with an SPL meter using some kind of switch-box...but this will do for now.

I switched back and forth at least half a dozen times for each test.  Here is what I heard:
60Hz:  The FA-011 and HTF600 are actually pretty equal here.  I originally gave a slight edge to the FA-011, but I retried this after finishing the 30Hz comparison, and the HTF600 may have had the edge.  The difference may be due to subtle changes in how I set the knobs at the beginning versus the end.
50Hz:  Pretty equal here.  I kept going back and forth thinking the headphones I was currently listening to were louder...and I kept changing my mind when I heard the others.
40Hz:  My opinion was split here:  I think the HTF600 has a slight edge in volume, but the FA-011's seemed to be vibrating my head a bit more.  It could be my imagination, because the differences are still very subtle.
30Hz:  Going back and forth, I felt the FA-011 was equal at best, and I commonly gave an edge to the HTF600.  I think the HTF600 wins this one by a bit.  ("A bit" means "at least 3 dB," given how insensitive we are to volume changes at such a low frequency.  I wouldn't be surprised if "a bit" means a lot more in decibel terms either, even up to 10dB.)

Ultimately, my personal conclusion is that the FA-011 is no slouch for sub-bass quantity, but the HTF600 at it's full potential has at least as much sub-bass on the whole and a bit more at 30Hz.  I should also note that the way I volume-matched probably gave an advantage to the FA-011:  I volume-matched based on a 1kHz tone (upper mids), but the FA-011's highs are emphasized, whereas the HTF600's are recessed.  If you prefer to set your volume for music based on the volume of the highs instead of the upper mids, you'll definitely end up getting more bass from the HTF600's at ordinary listening levels.  I imagine this volume-matching difference can easily be the difference between, "The HTF600 has at least as much sub-bass on the whole and more at 30Hz," and, "The HTF600 has WAY more sub-bass."

I'm now actually impressed by the HTF600's bass output when the headphones are performing at their best, but I'm disappointed that it's so hard to coax the drivers to behave.  I tried cranking up the volume for a 30Hz tone, and the right driver started sputtering...so I had to fix it AGAIN.  Then, the left one went out, then the right one again, and it was a few minutes before I got working drivers again.  I still can't get 30Hz tones to go very loud without the drivers going wonky again, either.  For stress-free listening, I'll be reaching for the FA-011...
 

 

[AlienUFO]

 
Quote:

It'd be extremely difficult to get a neutral can at this price point ($30-40). One of the cheaper options is KNS-6400, but still at $100. FA-006s are only $68+shipping from frogbeats, which is quite neutral; excellent for classical, opera, jazz, and other instrumental/accoutic.
 
Edit: KNS-6400 are actually $79 at Amazon for people in the US.

Yeah, that is exactly my problem. That is why I am trying to get the best alternative to at least make Classical music sound better than on stock phones (there will always be room for improvement). If I didn't had to import the phones, then my budget would have been much higher. But HPs are even more expensive here locally than importing them.

 

[hodgjy]

I haven't visited or posted here in a long time.  After visiting this site for the first time after many months, I remembered why I took some time off--every time I read something here I have to go buy them and try them for myself.
 
So, anyway, I read this thread and decided I needed to try these Pannys for myself.  My usual setup is the Woo 3 with Beyer 990 600 ohms.  Love that setup.  Very fun and open with good bass impact.  I wanted a cheap travel headphone that I could use with my iPad.  My iPad has most songs ripped to 256 kbps aac, so no sense in getting $1000 cans when the source is the weakest link.
 
There has been a lot of discussion about burn in with these Pannys.  I took this information and used it as part of my breaking in routine.  I got these and listened to them immediately out of the box.  First impression is they are dark, muffled, and crowded.  I listened for about an hour or so, then put them away on repeat shuffle.  I came back to them after 24 hours.  The sound was much more open and refined.  I came back to them at 48 hours.  Much better.  More open, mids came alive, and the sound stage opened up.
 
Based on my single data point, I fall on the side that burn in is real and necessary for these Pannys.  Sound does improve over time.  It's not a placebo effect.  I listened to them for an hour, put them aside for 23 hours, listened for one hour, and came back to them after 23 more hours.  The difference in sounds was noticeable.
 
Overall, I like these cans.  They have a warm signature.  The highs are rolled off nicely.  The mids are decent.  They are very forgiving of the source.  If I had one major sonic complaint, I'd say the imaging isn't as accurate as I'd like and the sound stage is a little compressed.  But, this is compared to much more expensive cans.  I really like these and they will become my travel cans.  They are fun and I like using them.
 
Others have said this before, but it can be repeated.  These are $30 cans.  They are built like $20 cans but sound like $100 headphones. 
 
Well done, Panasonic!

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Maybe we'd need to wake up the interest for Panasonic to maybe offer an improved model of HTF600 with fixed diaphragm or whatever that's causing the speaker to go into wrong position, better pads and a better design overall (it's not gonna win either any sturdy contests nor beauty queen constests really). I'd buy that in a heartbeat, even if price climbed up to $100, with a superb design, choise of pads etc I'd even pay $150 even if they used the exact same drivers.
 
I just bough a pair of V-Moda Crossfade LP2 and they costed 159 EUR and I absolutely love the design and sturdiness of this headphone but then sound quality wise these HTF600 beats it and we're talking about a headphone I spent 35 EUR on here(!) when no EQing is taking into account, with EQing the V-Modas can be EQ'd to sound quite a bit better than stock and comparing EQ'd vs EQ'd it's a lot more difficult for me to say which I prefer (it's fairly even) but the HTF600 needs only very slight EQing to get to the ideal balance (well for my ears/preferences anyway). 
 
For comparision's sake, the EQ settings:
 
V-Moda LP2:

 
HTF600:

 
You can hear the HTF600 has much more even midrange and less rolled-off highs for sure. The bass quality is also fantastic on HTF600 once it's burnt in like 50 hrs. Soundstage-wise they are about the same, however I'd possibly put slight advantage for HTF600 in transparency, HTF600 does very well with complex acoustic jazz recordings or mainstream pop for example despite being on the slightly bassier and warm side (which is usually not a good thing from transparency point of view), V-Modas prefers some bassy EDM.

 

[Dsnuts]

That is surprising. I have been reading that LP2 thread. How they sound by the way.
 
@hodgjy  Welcome to the HTF600 thread and I have to agree with your take on them.. I just got a Fisher Fa-011. Man these are great but you know what guys, I see why Malveaux likes these so much.. They have a similar signature to the HTF600s. Warm sounding.. More detailed yet open phones..That being said. For music I listen to the HTF600 still hangs with a much more expensive Fisher FA-011 no doubt..
 
Ya the thought of a much more refined HTF600 is one that I only wish someone at Panasonic would read this thread and hear our pleas. Lol!

 

[Dsnuts]

Ok thanks to AlienUFO who through some PM. Had me listen to this using the HTF600

.. WOW!!

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Well HTF600 does sound great with acoustic instruments as the midrange is so even sounding in my ears (now talking all the way from lower-midrange to upper-midrange say 300Hz to 4kHz). I'd really need Tyll to measure the frequency response to get that answered. Tried contacting him here on Head-fi but hasn't replied, maybe need to send an email to the address on innerfidelity site. I'm really curious how the FR graph looks like for these as they are so close to my ideal sound out-of-box without any EQing.
 
And have to say the LP2 are no match even with the optimal EQ settings for HTF600 in the above video, the HTF600 just sounds much more detailed. Looks like I will be selling the LP2s, given em like 40hrs burn-in/use at this point. 
 
At some point I will probably have to pick up another HTF600 as long as you can still get them for backup.

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Hmm, what you think about M-Audio Q40, would this at least be a contender to HTF600 in sound quality, it usually goes for like $120 in the US and receives rather great reviews anywhere you look. Reason I'm asking is because I FINALLY got the confirmation that the Q40 I had ordered like maybe 2 months ago was shipped as they have recieved them in stock. I've ordered as cash-on-delivery so should be fine to just let it stay in the post office for 2 weeks and then get automaticly shipped back I suppose if I'd decide to not give it a try but the question is, do you think I should give them a try or not? Is it something you think should at least be able to match HTF600 in sound quality which obviously the $170 or so costing V-Moda LP2 weren't able to.
 
The reason I'm somewhat interested in these headphones is this little graph I found which is roughly how I'd sketch the graph for HTF600 based on what I'm hearing minus the peak at 8~10kHz (but this could be something to do with the measurement/equipment too). I really think the HTF600 have a very similar kind of bass curve and neutral and rather even mids and just slightly rolled-off highs like in this graph:
 

 

[Dsnuts]

I read Jokers review on these and he was mentioning that Q40 sounds like a better version of the HAM750 which has a similar sound signature to the HTF600s.. I think if you can return the LP2s and get these. These might be what your looking for.  At one point I actually ended up buying the LP1s when they were steeply discounted on newegg for $75.. Lucky for me Malveaux got one before me and he pretty much told me to send them back..Lol. I think so far as v moda goes the M-100 is what is gonna turn heads..If you can get your money back I say go for it.. I haven't read a bad review regarding those Q40s.
 
Hey whatever happened to your custom pads your mom was making for your HTF600?

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

 
Quote:

I read Jokers review on these and he was mentioning that Q40 sounds like a better version of the HAM750 which has a similar sound signature to the HTF600s.. I think if you can return the LP2s and get these. These might be what your looking for.  At one point I actually ended up buying the LP1s when they were steeply discounted on newegg for $75.. Lucky for me Malveaux got one before me and he pretty much told me to send them back..Lol. I think so far as v moda goes the M-100 is what is gonna turn heads..If you can get your money back I say go for it.. I haven't read a bad review regarding those Q40s.
 
Hey whatever happened to your custom pads your mom was making for your HTF600?

I won't return Q40, I bought them from abroad and shipping costs are usually quite expensive abroad from Finland and besides it's always left me with a sour taste in my mouth after returning Beyer DT770 Pro to the shop I bought them from and was wondering if I would have to report them but it turned out that I just had to wait a half year before getting my payment back. I usually just sell what I don't like in a local forum for maybe a 10 - 20 EUR or whatever loss as it's "like-new" just suitable burnt-in and these aren't even available in this country yet and probably won't be for several months and pricing here would also be higher than that I paid.
 
As for the custom pads, we just decided to give up on those. The ones she made on first attempt basicly became a little too small for the space for the paddening, the size of the innerdiameter and stuff was about perfect though and fit nicely around the ear, just was a little tricky sewing it together and estimate the sizes of the leather/velour parts to sew together.

 

[Varley]

Over 40 hours on mine now, these are brill 

 Sometimes I feel the midbass can sound shoddy, but they put me into the false pretence that they are a high end set, therefore when I remember they're not - I forgive them 

 

[hodgjy]

While I really do love these cans and accept their shortcomings (especially when considering their price), I do want to correct/expand upon something I said earlier.
 
I said they are forgiving of the source.  This is true when the recordings or the bit rates are considered.  I stumpled upon something last night about the source though...
 
These phones do much better when not powered by an opamp.  The do benefit from being amped by a more beefy power source.  I guess that goes without saying in most cases, but I think these are less forgiving to not being amped as other low impedance cans.
 
Just thought I'd throw that into the mix.
 
All in all, love these cans.  I've got about 72 hours on them, and they continue to open up.  What is neat about them is they continue to open up without losing their warmth in the mid tones.

 

[ThusWeHave]

A question about burn in.. A lot of folks are mentioning that they "continue to open up" the more they are used.  I have read that burn-in is more effective at moderate-to-high volumes.  As I usually listen at relatively low volumes (30-40% on ipod, <20% on laptop) should I continue to burn them in at higher volumes without listening to them (using white noise, etc.) or will they improve with use regardless of volume?

 

[hodgjy]

I honestly don't think it matters as long as the diaphrams are moving.  That's just my opinion.