[Olias of Sunhillow]

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Hello all,
 
My current set-up is a laptop with iTunes lossless files--> iBasso D4 DAC--> Woo Audio 3 OTL amp--> HD 650.
 
But now, I'm itching to upgrade. Will a T1 sound good with my set-up? Or should I get a better DAC and/or amp first? Thanks.
 

 
Based on my experience with the WA2, your amp's big brother, I'd say that you don't necessarily need to upgrade amps right away. A new DAC would probably drastically improve your rig, but nevertheless, I think your gear is all good enough that you can get a good sense of the T1 without upgrading anything else first.
 
 

 

[wotts]

I can't say enough good about the Schiit Valhalla as far as tubes go. I have not had the opportunity to check out the WA2 (a universal favorite paring), but I do know the WA5 rocks the T1s. I have a 3 channel b22 that I feel is beat by the Schiit amp when paired to the T1.

 
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The Burson makes the T1 very analytical and unforgiving to bad recordings, but the control and imaging resulting from it is extremely good.  Seems a lot of people actually hate that sound but I find it great with movies and games (positioning with games with this combo is out of the world, unimaginable that could be achieved with a stereo headphone).  If you main usage is music go for tubes.  
 

 

 

[Sophonax]

 
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I can't say enough good about the Schiit Valhalla as far as tubes go. I have not had the opportunity to check out the WA2 (a universal favorite paring), but I do know the WA5 rocks the T1s. I have a 3 channel b22 that I feel is beat by the Schiit amp when paired to the T1. 
 

I'd agree with the Valhalla sentiments with the T1 -- the Valhalla is an excellent budget amp for the 600-ohm Beyerdynamic headphones.  I also had the Woo WA2 with the T1.  The WA2 seemed to put a little more emphasis on the midbass and midrange, whereas the Valhalla put more emphasis on the deep bass.  Moreover, the WA2 also had a noticeably lower noise floor than the Valhalla.
 
For the T1, overall I preferred the WA2 to the Valhalla, but the Valhalla was no slouch either.

 

[RazorJack]

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Originally Posted by Sophonax /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Moreover, the WA2 also had a noticeably lower noise floor than the Valhalla.

Noticeable noise floor 

 As in, "audible"?!
 
Let me start by saying that I have never heard a tube headphone amp or the T1 (I'm just subscribed to this thread because I'm saving for a T1 and therefore already like to stay up to date on its latest discussions), but do all popular tube amps (Schiit, Woo, Little Dot etc. to name a few manufacturers) have "noticeable" noise floors?!
I never really had a desire to try a tube amp anyway (due to coloration/distortion of the sound, and reliability/durability/safety concerns), but this would be another reason, and quite a shocking one! But as I've said, I've never heard a tube headphone amp.
 
I guess once you're used to the absolute total blackness of the Concerto's background, there's no turning back to anything inferior in that regard  

 

[Wapiti]

Noticeable noise floor 

 As in, "audible"?

Most tube amps are very quiet. Some times a particular tube exhibits a bit of self-noise or "tube rush." Even then it is minor and an organic, non-harsh sound that is easily buried by the music. Almost always any noticeable noise can be addressed with a tube change.

Keep in mind that many recordings have a noise floor themselves. Do you notice this and does it bother you? Similarly, do you easily hear and are you bothered by the artifacts of higher resolution MP3s? Most people do not hear/notice either.

If you want to analyze your music, go with SS. If you enjoy timbre, texture and the organic nature of performed music go with tubes. I have both and both are wonderful.

 

[Timbeh]

After listening to my new T1´s with Rhinelander a bit, i am enjoying these cans a lot. I think i might keep the Rhinelander and get some affordable tube amp as second amp, and that Schiit Valhalla might just be that amp, if it works nicely with T1´s 

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

I can't say enough good about the Schiit Valhalla as far as tubes go. I have not had the opportunity to check out the WA2 (a universal favorite paring), but I do know the WA5 rocks the T1s. I have a 3 channel b22 that I feel is beat by the Schiit amp when paired to the T1. 
 

you might bump the bass up a little on the beta to compensate for the tube coloration and see if the Schitt still beats it.
 


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I'd agree with the Valhalla sentiments with the T1 -- the Valhalla is an excellent budget amp for the 600-ohm Beyerdynamic headphones.  I also had the Woo WA2 with the T1.  The WA2 seemed to put a little more emphasis on the midbass and midrange, whereas the Valhalla put more emphasis on the deep bass.  Moreover, the WA2 also had a noticeably lower noise floor than the Valhalla.
 
For the T1, overall I preferred the WA2 to the Valhalla, but the Valhalla was no slouch either.

What kind of noise are you talking about.... hiss ,crosstalk, hum ????
 


Quote:

Most tube amps are very quiet. Some times a particular tube exhibits a bit of self-noise or "tube rush." Even then it is minor and an organic, non-harsh sound that is easily buried by the music. Almost always any noticeable noise can be addressed with a tube change.
Keep in mind that many recordings have a noise floor themselves. Do you notice this and does it bother you? Similarly, do you easily hear and are you bothered by the artifacts of higher resolution MP3s? Most people do not hear/notice either.
If you want to analyze your music, go with SS. If you enjoy timbre, texture and the organic nature of performed music go with tubes. I have both and both are wonderful.

That has been my experience too.
 

 

[Sophonax]

 
Quote:

 
What kind of noise are you talking about.... hiss ,crosstalk, hum ????
 

Actually, I suppose it would be more accurate to describe the noise of each amp individually.  The Valhalla has a slight hum that seems to be independent of how the volume control is positioned.  The WA2, on the other hand, is dead silent when the volume is down, but develops a very, very slight hum as the volume is increased.
 
And in both cases, I'm not sure "hum" is the right word -- "hum" usually implies some kind of AC power / grounding issue.  I would describe it as more of a broadband noise.
 
When the music is playing, the noise floor really isn't noticeable with either amp.  These observations were made without an input signal.
 
Tubes have definite advantages over solid state, but noise is generally not one of them, IMO.

 

[wotts]

I've thought about it, but I have the W1000X running off the b22 and they sing. I might swap them around again once I have moved into my new place. Do you use any EQ in particular?

 
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you might bump the bass up a little on the beta to compensate for the tube coloration and see if the Schitt still beats it.
 

 

 

[MacedonianHero]

Noticeable noise floor 

 As in, "audible"?!
 
Let me start by saying that I have never heard a tube headphone amp or the T1 (I'm just subscribed to this thread because I'm saving for a T1 and therefore already like to stay up to date on its latest discussions), but do all popular tube amps (Schiit, Woo, Little Dot etc. to name a few manufacturers) have "noticeable" noise floors?!
I never really had a desire to try a tube amp anyway (due to coloration/distortion of the sound, and reliability/durability/safety concerns), but this would be another reason, and quite a shocking one! But as I've said, I've never heard a tube headphone amp.
 
I guess once you're used to the absolute total blackness of the Concerto's background, there's no turning back to anything inferior in that regard  

The WA2 has almost non-audible noise floor with the T1s and when I owned both the WA2 and Concerto at the same time, there was no contest between these two amps....I'd take the WA2 by a good margin. As great as the Concerto was with them, the WA2s really improved on SS, dynamics and was the better match overall.

 

[chicostein]

My T1 has S/N #2614. I purchased it from Meier Audio, together with Concerto and StageDac, back in December.
It sounds great, and I never tought of it as "bass-light / treble-heavy" but reading all complaints in this thread got me thinking if I was really lucky in this peculiar "lottery".
When I compare it with my K702, it is easy to notice that the T1 has more bass and less "excessive" brightness but comparing with the JH16 Pro, sometimes I feel a lack of "body" in the T1 sound, a almost "thin" presence of lower mids (bass notes, lower piano notes). The treble, as well, has many qualities but altough very detailed and not overly bright, I cannot call it "refined" or "delightful" (as I would call my B&W 704)
 
Overall, for a significant part of the time, the T1 sounds great but not "exciting" (as I really expected). Sometimes, just hearing a Shure 530 from the iPhone is a more visceral experience...
 
Perhaps my T1 is great and I am hearing the limitations of the Concerto, or the Stagedac, or Meier Silver interconnects, or my crappy power cords, or the Essence ST, or the configurations I chose for the StageDac (I use everything in the middle, mostly) or for the Windows 7 (just judging which is superior, ASIO or WASAPI Event Syle is hard enough)
 
But anyway, I will be travelling to Germany at the end of the month (I live in Brazil, where is "impossible" to import such gear) and perhaps I could bring home a new T1, with a higher S/N and be sure.. (It should not be hard to resell a T1 here in Brazil later) (All else being equal, my #2614 has the old headband, so the new S/N would bring another benefit...)
 
So far so fine, I think it's really get silly because I intend to bring a HD800 as well, for this comparison...
 
Summing up: there is a lot of great stuff to be said about the sound of my T1s, but in many occasions I feel a lack of body in the lowermids and refinement in the treble. Additionally, I feel that the (this?) T1 starts to shine only at volumes slightly higher than I would find confortable.. (nine/ten o'clock in the Concerto)
 
I really would welcome any suggestions.
A. Is there anything else I should prioritize instead of buying two new cans (and then selling one or two old ones)?
B. How could I be sure my T1 is not a "defective" one?
C. Is there any store in Germany (does not really matter the city) where I can find the freshest S/N for the T1 and/or HD800?
 
thanks!
 

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Hi chicostein! Based on your description of your T1s, I strongly doubt you have a defective pair. Those that are likely to have a bad set describe things like "bleeding hot treble" and a total lack of bass. Your experience doesn't seem to fit in that category.
 
I would say, however, that your description of the T1s as "great but not exciting" exactly matches my experience of the T1/Concerto pairing. From a technical standpoint, the combination is just fine, but I found it to be somewhat dry and not strongly involving with perhaps slightly too much emphasis on the treble. Among SS amps, my relatively new Violectric V200 (another German amp) is preferable to the Concerto, though neither one comes close to the pairing of T1s and Woo's WA2 amp. I have personally found that tube amps are the way to go with Beyers, and when paired with a well-tubed WA2, the T1 is still my favorite headphone (above the LCD-2 and HE-6).
 
Hope this helps.

 

[chicostein]

Olias, it certainly helps!
Indeed, for instance, listening to a WAV of Who's "The Real Me" (Quadrophenia 1996 Remaster), Entwistle' bass and Moon's drumming have a thunderous presence, I could not really ask for 'more' bass from the phone. The deficiency is more subtle, as in the interplay of bass ans piano in (uh, thats embarassing) Billy Joel's "She's Always a Woman" in MP3 192 kbs. The iPhone/Shure 530 versions is full-bodied, the Concerto/T1 feels flat (particularly at the same volume)
I will really look into the WA2 alternative... I guess it is the best direction to go. By the way, what do you consider a well-tubed WA2?
tks
 

 

[Sophonax]

 
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Olias, it certainly helps!
Indeed, for instance, listening to a WAV of Who's "The Real Me" (Quadrophenia 1996 Remaster), Entwistle' bass and Moon's drumming have a thunderous presence, I could not really ask for 'more' bass from the phone. The deficiency is more subtle, as in the interplay of bass ans piano in (uh, thats embarassing) Billy Joel's "She's Always a Woman" in MP3 192 kbs. The iPhone/Shure 530 versions is full-bodied, the Concerto/T1 feels flat (particularly at the same volume)
I will really look into the WA2 alternative... I guess it is the best direction to go. By the way, what do you consider a well-tubed WA2?
tks
 

 
 

The recommendation for tubes for the WA2 that MacedonianHero gave me:
 
Mullard CV2492 driver tubes
Telefunken EZ80 rectifier tubes
Tung-Sol 5998 power tubes
 
I got to listen to the WA2 with the stock power tubes and the aforementioned driver and rectifier tubes, and it was fantastic.  I never did get around to trying the Tung-Sol 5998s, though -- apparently they're pretty hard to find.
 
Having said that, the WA2 will sound great with the T1, even with the stock tubes.
​

 

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

I don't mean to imply that the WA2 is the only good option for the T1 -- it's just the best I've heard. The much cheaper Woo WA3 is another consideration, as are tube amps from Decware, Little Dot, Mapletree and many others. If it's at all possible where you live, trying your cans with a synergistic tube amp from any maker would help you determine if the lack of excitement you perceive is in the cans themselves, or the amp/can combination you have at the moment.
 
For the WA2, my personal favorite tube combination right now is Mullard CV2493 drivers, Sylvania 7236 power tubes and Ei EZ80 rectifiers. Both the Mullards and Sylvanias in my rig are very close to the CV2492s and 5998s recommended above. I personally feel that the power tubes are most important, followed closely by drivers, with the rectifiers (in this amp, at least) making much less of a difference.